Thierry Small

[Sheaf Saint]

37 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

I think the kid has the potential to be quality, and he seems to have a great attitude which was evident in his first interview.

Has the tribunal fee been fixed yet? Wondering if we're keeping him in the B-team partly for fitness, but partly to keep the price down? 

Doesn't look like it, according to this hilariously biased article in the Liverpool Echo (the same publication that was spreading the false rumours about him refusing to train).

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/everton-southampton-thierry-small-transfer-21792529

They want £5m, we've offered £1.5m, and we seem happy to let it go to tribunal.

[qwertyell]

Good to get his debut out of the way - as long as he uses it as a very stark learning experience. He was okay on the ball, grew into the half as it wore on and put in a couple of crosses. But out of possession he was all over the place. You wouldn't necessarily expect a 17 year old to have immaculate positional discipline, but his seeming lack of effort and intensity when being asked to defend was a red flag. Nervous energy is supposed to make you charge around like a headless chicken, not jog about like a warm down session.

But at least he and the manager have a solid idea of where he's at and where he needs to get to now. I don't think he'll be starting any more first team games this season - and probably looking at a loan next season. It has only been one game, of course, but he doesn't look close to being ready for men's football.

Speaking of loans, Jake Vokins has started the last 12 games for Ross County after recovering from his broken foot. Seems to be doing pretty well, and contracted to us until 2024. I wonder if he comes back into back up contention next season.

[stknowle]

Only saw the highlights on MOTD. Frankly he looked like HCBA, casually jogging around. Wouldn't want to write him off obviously but that is exactly what it looked like in the couple of clips he featured in.

[ErwinK1961]

57 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Only saw the highlights on MOTD. Frankly he looked like HCBA, casually jogging around. Wouldn't want to write him off obviously but that is exactly what it looked like in the couple of clips he featured in.

He does appear to have a bit of a laid back style. Which is fine, but when you are so completely out of position defensively most of the time it isn’t a great look. Some positive signs from an attacking perspective and as I said in the post match thread, having Stephens alongside you on your debut can’t be great.

[spyinthesky]

Lets not forget this is a 17 yr old lad that made his first team game in front of a big crowd.

Hopefully he will learn from the experience and with careful handling will be a decent asset to the club.

He certainly looks as though he has ability going forward and let's no forget that Gareth Bale started out as a left back and made progress due to his offensive abilities.

[Whitey Grandad]

Not a completely awful performance but understandably he wasn’t going to take any unnecessary risks. Playing in an unsettled defensive line up can’t have helped either.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Problem is that if you’re Ralph, will that performance have given you confidence that you can risk exposing our defence because a 17 year old is still learning his trade? Compare this debut to how Livramento came in all guns blazing.  OK, so he’s two years younger, but the point still stands that it’s a big risk. The fear is that Small has been made promises for game time that Ralph will struggle to justify and could lead to squad unrest.

[saints-cris]

You have to remind yourself this kid is 17..... 17!

Made one very good run going forward, defensively looked a bit iffy but understandable. Physically he's a specimen, and I'm sure with time he'll still be a real talent.

[Baird of the land]

Shame his debut didn't go as hoped. Looked good going forward but hopefully coaches can work with him on his positional sense defensively.

Was nice seeing before the game seeing KWP with his arm around him giving him advice.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Problem is that if you’re Ralph, will that performance have given you confidence that you can risk exposing our defence because a 17 year old is still learning his trade? Compare this debut to how Livramento came in all guns blazing.  OK, so he’s two years younger, but the point still stands that it’s a big risk. The fear is that Small has been made promises for game time that Ralph will struggle to justify and could lead to squad unrest.

At least he didn’t get sent off after three minutes.

[Saint86]

When you bed in young kids you need to put them into a strong side where they have support all around them. In comparison, his debut was managed very badly. As a result Small was quite nervy (certainly at the start), but he did grow into the game in an attacking sense (shows he was able to overcome his earlier nerves and get some composure).

[Alan Sugarfree]

I actually feel sorry for the lad, perhaps Ralph will reflect on what happened with the team’s performance as a whole in the first half and manage Smalls next chance differently. Hindsight is a marvellous thing.

I remember Wayne Bridge taking time to settle but being given a run of games at the end of the season when we were safe so the pressure was off. Small might just need that to help settle him.

[Sarisbury Saint]

I think he’ll turn out fine.  Strong lad , but he’s young and still learning his trade and will get better and better.

[Saint Garrett]

Yeah, agree with most that's been said. A tough 45 minutes, in a messy side and messy formation on Saturday, but clearly a big chap, and clearly has talent. A few wobbly moments for sure. Can't help but feel that if it was mostly the first XI, with a couple of changes, Small in for Perraud, and Arsmtrong in for Broja, but with the raft of changes we made to system and personel, it can't have been easy to walk into that side.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

8 hours ago, saints-cris said:

You have to remind yourself this kid is 17..... 17!

Made one very good run going forward, defensively looked a bit iffy but understandable. Physically he's a specimen, and I'm sure with time he'll still be a real talent.

Not knocking his potential at all but I'm not sure I've seen many fullbacks with his sort of physique? 

The only similar player I can think of is Aboubakar Kamara who played wide forward for Fulham

[Tauro]

For those that don't remember exactly the same things when Luke Shaw had his first start. 

 

Let's see how he learns and responds to this outing. Ideally he needs to be in a position where he's striving to make the position his own at some point next season and our starting LB for the 2023/24 season if he wants to be a top top player. 

[Uncle Albert]

8 hours ago, Saint86 said:

When you bed in young kids you need to put them into a strong side where they have support all around them. In comparison, his debut was managed very badly. As a result Small was quite nervy (certainly at the start), but he did grow into the game in an attacking sense (shows he was able to overcome his earlier nerves and get some composure).

Anyone else read that badly?

[Matthew Le God]

He may have played in midfield tonight...

 

Edited 11 February, 2022 by Matthew Le God

[egg]

4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

He may have played in midfield tonight...

 

Possibly a back 3, so a wing back? 

[Saint Garrett]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Possibly a back 3, so a wing back? 

Been playing there all season hasn’t he? 

[jimmysaint7]

Slightly off topic but olly Lancashire doesn't appear to of played in a while 

[stevy777_x]

58 minutes ago, jimmysaint7 said:

Slightly off topic but olly Lancashire doesn't appear to of played in a while 

That s because it was a stupid idea signing him. We were losing all B games and getting desperate

[Saint_clark]

3 hours ago, stevy777_x said:

That s because it was a stupid idea signing him. We were losing all B games and getting desperate

No no, it makes sense to sign an utterly shit older player so he can teach the younger players how to be utterly shit.

[badgerx16]

7 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

No no, it makes sense to sign an utterly shit older player so he can teach the younger players how to be utterly shit.

If they weren't tutored in the correct way, certain posters on here would not be able to slag them off after 45 minutes of first team football.

[SuperSAINT]

 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

25 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

 

Sounds like a Billy Big Bollocks character to me. Least he is honest enough to admit he was shit in the cup game. Nowhere near first team with us yet. 

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Sounds like a Billy Big Bollocks character to me. Least he is honest enough to admit he was shit in the cup game. Nowhere near first team with us yet. 

Yep, although he was applauded on here from walking away to come from Everton cos he was ambitious and wanted first team football. 

[Baird of the land]

With Livramento out for a year you’d think he’d just be getting his head down and trying to grab the opportunity that has presented, rather than speaking out.

His defending in the cup outing was very concerning so I hope that was an aberration.

[saint1977]

4 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Sounds like a Billy Big Bollocks character to me. Least he is honest enough to admit he was shit in the cup game. Nowhere near first team with us yet. 

Agents and parents are a nightmare mix with young players these days. The reason you see so few 17 year olds playing regularly in the top flight compared to the 1980s and 90s is the power and speed of the game. He might stand out in u18s but the only youngsters I’ve seen make an instant impact and sustain it are Shaw and Rooney who were not far off the physique of a 25 year old at that age. JWP did break through but took a few years to sustain an impact and only really became a top player last 3 years arguably after bulking up a bit/more aggression added. 

[Dark Munster]

Quote

Understand Thierry Small is ‘frustrated’ at first-team role

I think we should give him a start against Liverpool, so that after 2 minutes he can get sent off for a studs up lunge on Salah, and we can then go on to lose 9-0.

[Matthew Le God]

17 year olds really shouldn't be frustrated not playing in a PL first team!

[HarvSFC]

Remember thinking he'd have probably been playing for Everton this season, as they didn't have a natural left-back after Digne fell out with Benitez, while he hasn't really got a look in for us. Might regret his move. Signed with some promise as Everton didn't want to let him go if I recall and was rated highly in the youth scene, but hasn't had a first season to shout about, much like Simeu.

5 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

Agents and parents are a nightmare mix with young players these days. The reason you see so few 17 year olds playing regularly in the top flight compared to the 1980s and 90s is the power and speed of the game. He might stand out in u18s but the only youngsters I’ve seen make an instant impact and sustain it are Shaw and Rooney who were not far off the physique of a 25 year old at that age. JWP did break through but took a few years to sustain an impact and only really became a top player last 3 years arguably after bulking up a bit/more aggression added. 

Agreed that Shaw was an exceptional talent at that age and came along just when we needed him. We're crying out for that now. I guess natural talent is worth more than physique below Premier League level, as both Walcott and Bale were a clear class above the moment they broke through, neither were physical specimens and both needed to be heavily nurtured when they moved up. Probably explains the likes of Hesketh and Slattery from years gone too. Highly regarded and made our first team, which only a minority do. But, neither had whatever the Premier League demands, leaving one at Eastleigh and the other in Scotland.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

I find it worse that he's stipulating what level he'd be willing to go out in loan to

[spyinthesky]

Dont think that our emerging talent such as Shaw, Bale and Ox managed to play in the Prem.
I think Thierry Small will definitely make the grade for us but his lack of experience was very apparent v Coventry.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

With Tino injured, there will be no need to switch KWP. So Small should get more minutes, coming on for Perraud. He'll get chances to develop and the club can show The Pathway is working. If he's good enough at that age.

[Bad Wolf]

38 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Sounds like a Billy Big Bollocks character to me. Least he is honest enough to admit he was shit in the cup game. Nowhere near first team with us yet. 

Why? Because he wants to play football? Would you rather he said "I'm delighted with playing youth football. Hopefully I won't make the first team for 2-3 years yet. Maybe even 4 if I'm lucky"

[Bad Wolf]

1 minute ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

With Tino injured, there will be no need to switch KWP. So Small should get more minutes, coming on for Perraud. He'll get chances to develop and the club can show The Pathway is working. If he's good enough at that age.

KWP is better on the left than right IMO

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

KWP is better on the left than right IMO

It's going to be tough on Small to get into the team *and* have to switch sides. But if he wants those first team minutes... 🙂

[ErwinK1961]

20 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

KWP is better on the left than right IMO

Crikey, that’s a big call. Think he offers us more all round from right back.

No issue with Small wanting to play, probably frustrated with a lack of opportunity rather than expecting to have played a load of games. Not sure about the “only interested in Championship / top of League One” though - you’re as good as the team that will take you.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

Why? Because he wants to play football? Would you rather he said "I'm delighted with playing youth football. Hopefully I won't make the first team for 2-3 years yet. Maybe even 4 if I'm lucky"

Don't have a problem with him saying it, but if you are saying shit like that, you really need to be good enough to say it. Forty five minutes of cup football against a Championship side suggested that he has a lot of work to do before he even gets close to competing for a squad place.

[daldridge7]

2 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Sounds like a Billy Big Bollocks character to me. Least he is honest enough to admit he was shit in the cup game. Nowhere near first team with us yet. 

This is the reason we managed to poach him from Everton. They still give him a hard time for it. Mad that he’s agitating for a move - even if it is for a loan more - for the second season in a row. Especially after his train crash of a 45 mins against a championship team so far this year. 

Edited 10 May, 2022 by daldridge7

[egg]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

KWP is better on the left than right IMO

Not better for me, but he's no less effective there. People's argument for KWP on the right is that he can get to the byeline, but he offers  a lot coming inside. 

On topic, Small ain't ready, so a loan makes sense. 

[Bad Wolf]

18 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Crikey, that’s a big call. Think he offers us more all round from right back.

No issue with Small wanting to play, probably frustrated with a lack of opportunity rather than expecting to have played a load of games. Not sure about the “only interested in Championship / top of League One” though - you’re as good as the team that will take you.

I disagree. Personally I thought he's outstanding wherever he plays and does a great job on the right. I just feel like with his skill set and confidence, that "inside wing back" role suits him better because he can use his skill and pace to go in and out, drag his marker one way or another, bring an overlapper into the game and really scare the opposition.

When he's on the right, he doesn't have much to do apart from run up and down in a straight line which is wasted on him IMO. I'd rather have Tino on the right, KWP on the left.

[Matthew Le God]

 

[Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan]

17 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

 

Good reminder of quite how young he is, there aren't a lot of first team minutes in that squad, even at the lower levels.

[Matthew Le God]

 

[The Kraken]

Probably a good move for little Terry at this point.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Probably a good move for little Terry at this point.

Yep. Looks a long way off the level we need him to be. A season to learn his trade and we'll then be better placed to see if he'll make the grade. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

43 minutes ago, egg said:

Yep. Looks a long way off the level we need him to be. A season to learn his trade and we'll then be better placed to see if he'll make the grade. 

I don't think he's a long way off the level we need to be fair - he lacks experience which is understandable at his age, but he's unlikely to get that with Perraud and KWP (and possibly others such as Djenepo) in front of him.  I do agree that a season away on loan would be good for him, but from what I've seen so far he will be a very good LB in the future.

[Billy the Kidd]

7 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I don't think he's a long way off the level we need to be fair - he lacks experience which is understandable at his age, but he's unlikely to get that with Perraud and KWP (and possibly others such as Djenepo) in front of him.  I do agree that a season away on loan would be good for him, but from what I've seen so far he will be a very good LB in the future.

I agree, i didnt think he was anywhere near as bad as people made out the other day. I was more fucked off with the ever predictable losing of the ball, over hitting passes, tripping over the ball/and or feet from Djeneppo. Honestly, for me Moussa is one of the worst players ive ever seen get so much game time.

But Small, a bit of time will do him good at another club, think he will turn out fine.