Saints 2-1 QPR - Match Thread

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

4 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Thought Charles was superb, handled Sinclair really well (with Bednarek), always seemed in the right place and didn’t give the ball away.

Arma very good and cracking finish, he looked better in a deeper role (made good runs up top but no-one passed it to him).

Downes not bad, looked a bit undercooked (sorry Flynn!) but clearly has class and will be important for us.

Manning decent going forward, really not good defensively.

SAA - too soon for him. Keep to the bench cameos.

Alcaraz, no idea what was up with him today. Looked morose and disinterested all game, lucky not to be pulled sooner.

Good subs by Martin. 

Good to win when not at our best, but will need to improve big time if we want to get promoted. 

Felt those subs changed the momentum of the game. Previously Selles/Ralph would almost look at the watch and say time for a change. RM saw Alcaraz was having an off day, S-A-A wasn't making an impact so they were hoiked off.

New signings were class today. Also really pleased that Baz is growing in stature. 

 

[davefizzy14]

Great to get our first home win of the season today.

Shea Charles was quality at the back today alongside Bednarek. He was cool, calm and composed.

Downes was a class apart when he came on, very good debut from him.

Sam Edozie was lively and so happy for him to get his first goal for us today. That will give him even more confidence going forward.

Adam Armstrong was yet again my MOTM. Non stop running and tracking back. Quality finish for our winner.

Ryan Fraser was excellent when he came on, a level above for me.

COYR

Edited 26 August, 2023 by davefizzy14

[CanadaSaint]

1 hour ago, The Cat said:

One thing we need to be more aware of with the ball in midfield is the runs the forward players make. Must have been at least 5 times today that someone made a great run which wasn't spotted, and a couple were by Fraser.

If we can start picking some of those out we will create a lot more chances.

Couldn't agree more. Fraser's all about using his pace to get in behind, and he'll be looking for that chance all season long.

I tried a little experiment today - instead of watching our almost hypnotic passing in midfield, I watched how QPR reacted to it. They kept shifting across to cover the ball movement, and every time they did it they left an opening for the angled through-ball - exactly what Fraser could turn into a 10-15 goal season.

But we're not looking for that opening - yet. Once this side gets familiar with eachother I think we will.

That's what will turn possession into incision.

[davefizzy14]

Really hope Jack's injury isn't serious 🙏

[qwertyell]

1 hour ago, SambaMaverick said:

Not to be too negative after a decent win, but how bad was Alcaraz? Needs an arm round his shoulder this week because he has the potential to be important for us.

He had some stinkers last season too. If he bags a goal, his overall performance tends to get overlooked, but as a midfielder he can be a bit iffy: loose on the ball, reckless in the tackle, and generally indisciplined.

But he was signed as a rough diamond, so it's up to us to polish him up over time (if he stays here). It won't be plain sailing.

Same with Mara, to an extent. He was signed as 19 year old striker with not much experience but plenty of promise, yet people are ready to bin him off on the basis of one season in which the whole club was absolutely useless - and he was far from the biggest culprit. I thought he showed today, as he has here and there, that there's the makings of a player lurking beneath those dreadlocks. Needs some nurturing (maybe a lot), not knee-jerkingly sent to Coventry for being shite in a few cameos on the wing (which isn't even his position).

Won't be - and shouldn't be - our starting striker any time soon, but I hope he sticks around and builds on this game (and, according the manager, the Brentford game midweek in which he was "brilliant").

[The Kraken]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

Maybe one of the Charlie Wayman Saintsweb member syndicate could donate one of their tickets for a game?

Perhaps not the one who said a few months back that he hasn’t been for ages and won’t go again while SR are in control. So It’ll need to be a different one to him. 

[adrian lord]

Been out all day in London doing a lot of stuff so only just catching up.

 

I am really pleased we’ve had/having a bloody good clear out, expunging the stagnation of the last few years - and we seem to be developing a very new team that we can really get behind, along with a manager who we can rally around, and we can enjoy this league. 

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

One thing to really take into account is that last week we won away at a half decent Plymouth team, despite losing JWP, who has been a constant for so long and an incredibly important player. Smallbone also went off injured and Alcaraz unavailable. Then this week we've lost Tella and Adams, and no Smallbone from the start, and beaten another decent side. 

There has been a huge amount of chopping and changing, and how we've managed to get to 10 points from a possible 12 is really impressive to me. Much kudos has to go to RM and team. 

I think RM has done a fantastic job so far. It’s easy to forget what a mess we were last season and how depressing it was. He’s speaks openly and talks sense, has already put his mark on the side despite losing all of our best players from last season. I was skeptical about his appointment but so far proved the doubters wrong. It’s Early days but very optimistic of our manager i just hope he isn’t let down by the people above him. 

Edited 26 August, 2023 by Turkish

[jimmer42]

3 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Lots of passing mostly sideways and zero creativity about sums up our Saints this afternoon. Still relying on moments of individual inspiration for our goals, both of which were outstanding. Also the usual stupid errors in defence and gift goals. Manning, I think shoulders the blame for today's cock-up

Downes looked useful rather than talented but did what he had to do. Fraser very busy and impatient to make things happen. Good to see. Colgate seems to have lucked in with Steven's injury.

The absence of Tella and Adams speaks volumes, not a trace of Perraud either who was probably on the car ferry back to France. More worryingly, at the end of the match KWP was shaking hands with everyone on the staff including the tea lady. Defo looked like a farewell. Doubt we will see him again in a Saints shirt.

All in all not a brilliant display but a win's a win even if we had to dig it out rather than stroll to victory. 

Downes looked 'useful'.....not sure what game you were watching. He looked like he was on another level to every other midfielder on the pitch

[Chewy]

Ok performance, good result even if we made hard work of it.

Good stuff - Charles, for his age especially. MOTM ArmA (never thought I’d say it, I’ve now done so twice in 8 days). Goal for Edozie, and first half especially he carried a threat. Bazunu (!!!). Fraser’s impact. Downes’ immediate composure and control of possession.

Bad stuff - Edozie defensively. Zero effort, there’s more to professional football than being the best dribbler in the playground. Manning defensively. Not helped by having Edozie in front of him. Alcaraz - I honestly think he’s been poor all 4 games, but he is still very young and has bags of talent. Jack’s injury. Mara as a footballer anywhere.

ok stuff - Jan (strangely seemed better with a physical rather than mental challenge today). KWP (seemed reluctant to feed SAA). SAA - not so good today but he’s 17. Great as a sub. Stu - creative but doesn’t track.

Tactics - Our defensive weak spot is down each flank behind our attacking and inverted full backs - the holes are huge. Not helped as our wingers can’t/won’t defend at all and we have two number 10s who can’t/won’t either.

Midfield balance is still wrong. Can’t wait for fitness to allow us to play two of Downes, Charles and Smallbone and just one “10” (and on current form that would be Stu or even ArmA, not Alcaraz). Against Norwich we lacked physicality but had possession with Smallbone. Today we had physicality with Charles but less control of possession (until Downes came on).  And bizarrely with QPR playing so defensively at the start we needed possession over physicality. But either way, we simply had one body too many high up the pitch every time we lost the ball. And as none of them track back (except when ArmA has been a 10) we’re exposed and vulnerable every single break. It will cost us if we don’t address this, but I’m hoping it’s just a matter of not having the right people available to pick so far.

Manager looks capable of making effective and timely subs which is a refreshing change.

And lastly, of course, ArmA as a cf in this formation isn’t right. Even the dreadful Mara was somehow better as a focal point. 
As hard as ArmA worked, we carried no central goal threat. We’ve needed a cf for over 2 years, still do, and actually with Che looking like he’s off we’re actually in a worse position than last season - I didn’t think that was remotely possible.

We got relegated for many reasons but the lack of a striker was top of the list IMHO. For the love of god, please can we sign one. 
 

Overall then - reasonably happy and points total as good as could be hoped. Very nervous about cf over the remainder of the transfer window. Lots more positives than negatives, but being a cf down would be a very large negative 

[Norm]

Much improved 2nd half and pleased with new players. Only negative was Manning, sorry I really am not a fan.

[trousers]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

When oh when are we going to hang onto a lead for more than just a couple of minutes?

After our second goal...?

[Polaroid Saint]

50 minutes ago, Chewy said:

Bad stuff - Edozie defensively. Zero effort, there’s more to professional football than being the best dribbler in the playground. Manning defensively. Not helped by having Edozie in front of him. Alcaraz - I honestly think he’s been poor all 4 games, but he is still very young and has bags of talent. Jack’s injury. Mara as a footballer anywhere.

Particularly poor in the Plymouth game. 😜

[The Cat]

29 minutes ago, Norm said:

Much improved 2nd half and pleased with new players. Only negative was Manning, sorry I really am not a fan.

He seems a bit dozy, gives the ball away too easily at times. However he set both goals up and the pass for the first was sublime.

[Pamplemousse]

A sign of a good team is winning when you don't play well.

We'll play better this season and not win. Luckily QPR are fairly limited.

[Turkish]

38 minutes ago, Norm said:

Much improved 2nd half and pleased with new players. Only negative was Manning, sorry I really am not a fan.

2 assists today. I think he’ll improve with time

[Turkish]

Looks like stephens is out for a while

[SaintBobby]

3 points, so am happy.

Upsides: Downes and especially Fraser look good. Fraser turned the match, not just by his great play down the left but by that meaning their defence got stretched. Stunning debut. Arma had another good game - yeah, he's not a top no. 9, but his tracking and tackling back is stunning. Shea Charles looked good at CB too.

Downsides: Alcaraz was woeful (and I'm a big fan) - it was as if he was drunk (not saying he was, but his head wasn't in the right place). Injury to Stephens looks bad. I assume ABK is off (weird he was on the bench but not subbed on for Jack). Didn't create enough clear cut chances (in fact, QPR had more, I think). Also, conceding a minute after going ahead is getting annoying - especially as our supposed USP is possession/control.

Overall, 6.5/10. Credit to RM on the subs and game management.

[Appy]

Referee was really poor, seemed desperate to book our players and had no intention of booking theirs. 

[SaintsFan86]

55 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Looks like stephens is out for a while

Gutting for the bloke, Good thing we brought in Holgate yesterday.

[John Boy Saint]

46 minutes ago, SaintBobby said:

3 points, so am happy.

Upsides: Downes and especially Fraser look good. Fraser turned the match, not just by his great play down the left but by that meaning their defence got stretched. Stunning debut. Arma had another good game - yeah, he's not a top no. 9, but his tracking and tackling back is stunning. Shea Charles looked good at CB too.

Downsides: Alcaraz was woeful (and I'm a big fan) - it was as if he was drunk (not saying he was, but his head wasn't in the right place). Injury to Stephens looks bad. I assume ABK is off (weird he was on the bench but not subbed on for Jack). Didn't create enough clear cut chances (in fact, QPR had more, I think). Also, conceding a minute after going ahead is getting annoying - especially as our supposed USP is possession/control.

Overall, 6.5/10. Credit to RM on the subs and game management.

ABK was going through the motions of being sent out to do a few stretches, his half arsed attitude stank so much you could smell it up in row CC. 

Interesting listening to Martin on the Solent driving home was quite refreshing calling the game as it was. With some folk on here moaning on it not being a great performance, hearing him say that it was the 3rd different team set up this season by QPR and we needed sorting out at half time - and also saying conceding the equaliser so quickly being diabolical.

 

 

[bpsaint]

57 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Looks like stephens is out for a while

Shame for Jack, that being said making him Captain had almost rendered him undroppable despite being somewhat unreliable so this injury could work out for the best in the long run if it means we bring in another CB to go straight into the XI

[SaintBobby]

Who was the skipper when Jack came off? Some on here saying Stu A, but the bloke next to me was certain Jan B had the armband. 

[SaintsFan86]

Stuey was captain. Alfie mentioned it earlier.

[Give it to Ron]

11 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

Not much to add that hasn't been said except, Manning is pretty poor, very slow and easily beaten by wide player almost every time and nothing special going forward, hope he improves,  a really weak link

Nothing special going forward despite creating 2 goals Christ almighty

[benjii]

6 hours ago, Appy said:

Referee was really poor, seemed desperate to book our players and had no intention of booking theirs. 

I've been pleasantly surprised with how good the officials have been in our matches so far. Generally consistent and no big howlers. Seems better than the Premier League, to be honest.

[david in sweden]

3 wins out of four and still in top six after 4 games must be something to celebrate.

With impending transfers away and injuries after every game RM is having to make it up as he goes along, and not doing too bad so far,

but already we are hearing critical voices reminding us that despite having sold our best for over 100 million we are still ONLY signing

loans and free transfers. The club is still trying to balance the books and pay debts after last season's disasterous spending spree.

I don't think the lack of " big money "  signings has hampered us ...and Charles, Downes and Fraser look like good deals.

 

The Championship isn't the Prem. or anything like it, as  Luton, Sheff.Utd and Burnley will soon discover to their discomfort. 

Everton managed to survive  despite their financial crisis but that won't last, unless they find yet another billionaire to squander his money.

With more signings on the way, Saints are building " a new look " in the squad and we can worry about big deals when / if we get promoted.

There is still a lot to fix - especially in defence - but as long as we can conjure one goal more than the opposition it looks promising.

If we can maintain this form for 2-3 months, I'd say we have the makings of a good squad - made up of low cost investments. 

[SW11_Saint]

6 hours ago, SaintBobby said:

Who was the skipper when Jack came off? Some on here saying Stu A, but the bloke next to me was certain Jan B had the armband. 

Stuart Armstrong had the captains armband, but Bednarek had a black armband on from what I could see, not sure why. I mistook it for the captains armband at first too. 

[SW11_Saint]

8 hours ago, SaintBobby said:

Upsides: Downes

I see what you did there 😉

[Mr X]

There were more positives than negatives with the team yesterday (in the second half) but Alcarez definitely played like someone who doesn't want to be here! Fraser, downes and AA (never thought I'd say that) looked decent  Possession football has got us some decent results so far but have to admit it's not the most entertaining style to watch, and I do worry that their will be a few teams that have us sussed what's the plan b, goes without saying we need a direct out and out quality CF to play alongside AA despite what some people say we will miss che 

[rallyboy]

Ref was totally inconsistent with cards, and his assistant on the Itchen dodged most decisions all afternoon - shirt-pulling right in front of him, offsides, he even left a few corners and throw-ins to the ref.

On a positive, Armstrong.A was chasing everything, classy finish, committed and energetic performance, and the makeshift centre back pairing took no shit and wouldn't be bullied - their centre forward came looking for trouble and discovered he was at the correct address. 

A good day.

[northam soul]

Does that segregation and closed area in the Itchen North really use over 1,000 seats?

Complete sell out yet they are making a big deal of the attendance being 30,401.

 

[ErwinK1961]

19 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

Ref was totally inconsistent with cards, and his assistant on the Itchen dodged most decisions all afternoon - shirt-pulling right in front of him, offsides, he even left a few corners and throw-ins to the ref.

On a positive, Armstrong.A was chasing everything, classy finish, committed and energetic performance, and the makeshift centre back pairing took no shit and wouldn't be bullied - their centre forward came looking for trouble and discovered he was at the correct address. 

A good day.

Agree on the ref, no ‘howlers’ but general decision making and consistency was garbage. At least 2/3 times their players booted the ball away, no cards.

How we ended up with 4 yellows in the first half and they had none was hilariously bad.

[SWLondonSaint]

At the end of the day, the win is all that matters.

thought Edozie was great until he scored and then became anonymous.

alcaraz, probably his worst game in a saints shirt and certainly hindered our chance creation as a result

Think Manning is poor defensively and better sides would have taken advantage.

Adam Armstrong, Fraser and Downes all great.

UTS

[Sheaf Saint]

28 minutes ago, Mr X said:

There were more positives than negatives with the team yesterday (in the second half) but Alcarez definitely played like someone who doesn't want to be here! Fraser, downes and AA (never thought I'd say that) looked decent  Possession football has got us some decent results so far but have to admit it's not the most entertaining style to watch, and I do worry that their will be a few teams that have us sussed what's the plan b, goes without saying we need a direct out and out quality CF to play alongside AA despite what some people say we will miss che 

I didn't watch the game so can't comment on his overall performance, but I did notice on the highlights there was a moment in the second half where he lost the ball after receiving a hospital pass from Bednarek, while surrounded by 3 QPR players, and he absolutely busted a gut to get back and attempt to block the resulting shot. I know it's only one moment, but it shows some steel and committment to me, and not the actions of someone who doesn't want to be here...

 

[The Cat]

8 hours ago, John Boy Saint said:

ABK was going through the motions of being sent out to do a few stretches, his half arsed attitude stank so much you could smell it up in row CC. 

Was surprised to see him on the pitch after celebrating with the players and clapping the fans. Would have thought he'd have been first down the tunnel.

[Saint-Michael]

Thought Aribo looks lost on the pitch ball was like a hot potato to him and never made any runs .

 

[The Cat]

5 minutes ago, Saint-Michael said:

Thought Aribo looks lost on the pitch ball was like a hot potato to him and never made any runs .

 

He's played like that in every game he's come on as sub. What he was done well though is keep possession ticking over. 

[saintwbu]

ABK definitely had his shirt on ready to come on at one point, I think it was when Manning (i think) looked like he picked up a knock. Wasn’t a massive surprise that he didn’t come on for Stephens, he’d only played 45 mins midweek against Brentford so it’s a big ask to come on for 80 or so minutes in the league straight away. On a separate note Shea Charles was absolutely class at CB I thought, aerially dominant as well. 

[Give it to Ron]

Ryan Manning 🆚 QPR:

🅰️ 2 Assists
👉🏼 145 Touches
➡️ 17 Passes into final third 👀 
👏🏼 116/117 Passes completed ⭐️
🎯 95% Pass accuracy 
💪🏼 67% Tackle success
🛡️ 4/7 Ground duels

⭐️ 8.9 Rating

🏆 MOTM
💯 Dishing out assists

@SouthamptonFC @ryanmanning4 | #SaintsFC #EFL
 

that Manning is so poor!!

[Green]

1 hour ago, northam soul said:

Does that segregation and closed area in the Itchen North really use over 1,000 seats?

Complete sell out yet they are making a big deal of the attendance being 30,401.

 

Think it’s corporate seats not sold as well. 

[Harry_SFC]

1 hour ago, The Cat said:

He's played like that in every game he's come on as sub. What he was done well though is keep possession ticking over. 

Yeah, pretty sure that's all the manager wants from him at that stage in the game. Just keep the ball and he's done it well so far. 

[Charlie Wayman]

12 hours ago, Polaroid Saint said:

Particularly poor in the Plymouth game. 😜

I can see a new forum whipping boy emerging here. Why do these new posters come on here to create divide and unrest where non exists.

[Whitey Grandad]

20 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

I can see a new forum whipping boy emerging here. Why do these new posters come on here to create divide and unrest where non exists.

You have answered your own question.

[Barsiem]

12 hours ago, Appy said:

Referee was really poor, seemed desperate to book our players and had no intention of booking theirs. 

I watched the game with QPR commentary on and their commentator thought the ref was absolutely biased towards Saints.  It was actually quite funny how apolectic he got at times.  

Having said that, when Fraser had his one on one well saved by the keeper, the ref blew the whistle to bring play all the way back to the half way line for a Saints free kick.  We'd clearly had the advantage he originally gave us so he shouldn't have done that

[Give it to Ron]

1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said:

I can see a new forum whipping boy emerging here. Why do these new posters come on here to create divide and unrest where non exists.

Like you blaming Manning for first goal despite him being nowhere near it?

Or was that one of your alter ego’s?

[SaintsFan86]

1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said:

I can see a new forum whipping boy emerging here. Why do these new posters come on here to create divide and unrest where non exists.

He isn't wrong, Alcaraz hasn't been great.

Whether that's settling into the league or new formation/role he just hasn't settled yet. Could do with bench time and I'd be okay with it, We've our own Frank Lampard in Adam Armstrong.

[The Cat]

2 hours ago, Give it to Ron said:

Ryan Manning 🆚 QPR:

🅰️ 2 Assists
👉🏼 145 Touches
➡️ 17 Passes into final third 👀 
👏🏼 116/117 Passes completed ⭐️
🎯 95% Pass accuracy 
💪🏼 67% Tackle success
🛡️ 4/7 Ground duels

⭐️ 8.9 Rating

🏆 MOTM
💯 Dishing out assists

@SouthamptonFC @ryanmanning4 | #SaintsFC #EFL
 

that Manning is so poor!!

How does 116/117 account for 95%? 

Said it before but the pass for the first goal was something special. 

[SaintsFan86]

3 minutes ago, The Cat said:

How does 116/117 account for 95%? 

Said it before but the pass for the first goal was something special. 

Maybe they just round it up to the nearest 5? 🤣

[Whitey Grandad]

22 minutes ago, Barsiem said:

I watched the game with QPR commentary on and their commentator thought the ref was absolutely biased towards Saints.  It was actually quite funny how apolectic he got at times.  

Having said that, when Fraser had his one on one well saved by the keeper, the ref blew the whistle to bring play all the way back to the half way line for a Saints free kick.  We'd clearly had the advantage he originally gave us so he shouldn't have done that

He had stopped play and was about to issue a yellow card so he was entitled to call it back. Most people in the stadium knew that it was a waste of a run.

Whether the ref should have anticipated and allowed for a free kick is a different question. Many will let the teams know their methods before kick off, something like “Quick free kicks are fine by me but if you bugger it up you’re on your own”.