Cardiff 2-1 Saints - Match Thread

[JRM]

Having slept on it the ability for this team to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory really is incredible,  surely stats wise it must be a record for the losing team 

[AlexLaw76]

The fact we continuously need to score 2 to get “something” in far too many games, is on Russell Martin.

bang average manager, given a job beyond his abilities.

 

Edited April 21 by AlexLaw76

[david in sweden]

16 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

The face we continuously need to score 2 to get “something” in far too many games, is on Russell Martin.

bang average manager, given a job beyond his abilities.

 

.....yet good enough  to manage a side that can go 20+ games unbeaten with a half-a-team of borrowed players.    Not  that bad surely ?

[obelisk]

If the aim is to languish for years in the Championship with occasional playoff excitement then RM is probably good enough.

Is that the plan though?

[AlexLaw76]

11 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

.....yet good enough  to manage a side that can go 20+ games unbeaten with a half-a-team of borrowed players.    Not  that bad surely ?

Games unbeaten? So what? 
what did that really achieve, we never won more than 4 on the bounce!

[CB Fry]

31 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

The face we continuously need to score 2 to get “something” in far too many games, is on Russell Martin.

bang average manager, given a job beyond his abilities.

 

The "it's not his fault the strikers miss chances" stuff is massively letting Martin off the hook.

Our defensive record is absolutely appalling. We should be capable with the players we have to win matches 1-0.

The reason we are fourth not second is not because of goals not scored, its because we are incapable of keeping them out the other end,or efficiently closing games out.

But, we knew all this from the pathetic record Martin had of dribbling Swansea to tenth and MK Dons to absolutely nowhere in League One.

Edited April 21 by CB Fry

[FarehamSaintJames]

I’ve just watched the EFL highlights.

I’ve slept on it. I’m even more pissed off now having seen the glut of chances we chose to fuck up.

[Pamplemousse]

6 hours ago, Kermitzasaint said:

Yet RM decimated the midfield through bizarre substitutions. He weakened the team bringing on further pressure that led to the loss. 

That's not his fault either? 

The subs were dreadful but there'd be people moaning about him being negative if he had brought on Charles. 

[DrSuess1979]

How can you blame the manager for strikers goalkeeper and defenders not doing their job.

he sets the team up to control the game which in large parts we do. And no one can argue our final third build up is very good, we just don’t convert the chances regularly enough.

You can see and feel the confidence drain from the side.

The criticism I’d have with Russball, when the opposition is pressing high (when we are at that low point)  why aren’t we bypassing said press with balls in behind 

 

[saintant]

18 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

The subs were dreadful but there'd be people moaning about him being negative if he had brought on Charles. 

I'm not sure there would have been many moans. To be fair most would have had Charles in the side from the start with Downes out. It's very puzzling that when Downes was withdrawn at half time against Preston RM chose to bring on Charles. Yet he doesn't pick him for the Cardiff game! I can't make any sense of that nor the fact that he then chose not to bring him on when we were crying out for a holding midfielder - instead he makes a total car crash by bringing on Rothwell, Edozie, Fraser and Sulemana. Not the actions of a coach who is thinking rationally and it all smacked of desperation. Let's just hope RM demonstrates a cooler head in the frenzy of the play-offs when one of the biggest prizes in football is at stake.

Edited April 21 by saintant

[Wade Garrett]

11 hours ago, manji said:

FFS what’s it got to do with Rasmus you cretin . Rasmus is in charge of sorting out the other teams in the SR. Nothing to do with recruitment here. 
The ignorance of some fans is unbelievable.

Rasmus is a muppet.

[tdmickey3]

An absolutely pathetic shit showing in front of goal, AA smashing over with zero composure, Adam’s 1 on 1 tame effort again not forgetting Smallbones awful side foot that was nearer the corner flag but nothing as bad as the utterly appalling miss from Brooks, what the fuck was he doing🤯

The pattern of the game was mapping itself out and we could all see it coming after halftime yet as normal Martin does nothing to try to help the team to try to manage the game, Cardiff subs changed them up and they took charge and still Martin did fuck all except make stupid subs again, literally just chucking players on and taking off the wrong ones causing complete disarray and handing more control to Cardiff.

Everyone except our brave bollocks spouting manager could see SA was knackered and needed to come off.

He could argue with justification that we were terrible in front of goal but this does not excuse him from his clueless sub choices and lack of nous to manage the game to hold out for the win against what was a very poor side but he was outsmarted by their manager.
 

He has the tactical skills of plankton and unless he miraculously finds some sense the inevitable awaits us in the playoffs.

Another wasted chance yesterday and I fully expect another in may

[CB Fry]

43 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

The subs were dreadful but there'd be people moaning about him being negative if he had brought on Charles. 

Er, no. The majority on this forum I could see pre-match wanted Charles to start the game.

Edited April 21 by CB Fry

[SaintNewForest]

11 hours ago, manji said:

FFS what’s it got to do with Rasmus you cretin . Rasmus is in charge of sorting out the other teams in the SR. Nothing to do with recruitment here. 
The ignorance of some fans is unbelievable.

How's it going, Rasmus?

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, david in sweden said:

.....yet good enough  to manage a side that can go 20+ games unbeaten with a half-a-team of borrowed players.    Not  that bad surely ?

Unbeaten is a long way from winning. 

[Pamplemousse]

16 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Er, no. The majority on this forum I could see pre-match wanted Charles to start the game.

There have been comments from previous games saying that.

[StrangelyBrown]

Taking a very simplistic view, and bear with me, given that 2 of our our biggest problems are the strikers not scoring enough and our keepers conceding far too easily could the problem simply be down to the fact that the strikers find it far too easy to score in training and therefore aren't improving where they should be?

If so should RM have worked this out by now?

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

Taking a very simplistic view, and bear with me, given that 2 of our our biggest problems are the strikers not scoring enough and our keepers conceding far too easily could the problem simply be down to the fact that the strikers find it far too easy to score in training and therefore aren't improving where they should be?

If so should RM have worked this out by now?

I have said this before. In training our strikers are up against our defence. It doesn't help either of them.

[Chris cooper]

5 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Unbeaten is a long way from winning. 

& most of the teams if we were managed properly & selection of the squad was right for the particular team we were playing on the day we should be turning over all of the teams bar the top 3 .. 

yesterday not selecting Charles to come in for downes left me in disbelief after Preston .

We all know smallbone isn’t a CDM but still shoehornes him in there .. 

same scenario with jack Stephens.

& Also his panicked pub subs ffs 🤦‍♂️ 

let’s face we won’t beat wba or Norwich over two legs anyway so strap in for two naughty local derbies with the jank down the road ! 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

I’ve just watched the EFL highlights.

I’ve slept on it. I’m even more pissed off now having seen the glut of chances we chose to fuck up.

What I take from that is our wet blotting paper defence. What on earth is Bednarek doing for their second? He can see that the player is going to shoot yet he doesn't attack the ball and just waits for the shot when you can see him shrink away from it. 

He's been doing this all season and it's cost us a fair few goals.

[trousers]

1 hour ago, david in sweden said:

.....yet good enough  to manage a side that can go 20+ games unbeaten with a half-a-team of borrowed players.    Not  that bad surely ?

 

21 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Unbeaten is a long way from winning. 

I've said it before and, like an annoying scratched record (!), I'll say it again....

The fabled "unbeaten run" was a false positive... Draws were lauded as helping us in our quest to achieve an ultimately meaningless "club record"... 

Look at Leicester... Top of the league despite having lost one more game than us... Yet they are 7 points ahead of us, in part because we've drawn 9 games to their 4. 

Yes, out of context, a 25 game unbeaten run isn't a bad thing per se, but the club's obsession with it in the end  became a significant distraction... In my humble opinion...

Edited April 21 by trousers

[Lighthouse]

5 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

Taking a very simplistic view, and bear with me, given that 2 of our our biggest problems are the strikers not scoring enough and our keepers conceding far too easily could the problem simply be down to the fact that the strikers find it far too easy to score in training and therefore aren't improving where they should be?

If so should RM have worked this out by now?

Unless our keepers have been defending a goal the size of a railway locomotive in the car park, I can’t imagine that’s where our strikers are getting it from. The reality is even more simplistic; we’ve acquired a set of strikers with substandard finishing ability

[trousers]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

What I take from that is our wet blotting paper defence. What on earth is Bednarek doing for their second? He can see that the player is going to shoot yet he doesn't attack the ball and just waits for the shot when you can see him shrink away from it. 

He's been doing this his entire career and it's cost us a fair few goals.

Fixed it for you...

[Oldandtired]

1 hour ago, david in sweden said:

.....yet good enough  to manage a side that can go 20+ games unbeaten with a half-a-team of borrowed players.    Not  that bad surely ?

Until teams found out how easy it was to play through us and the manager refused to change his system.

[Whitey Grandad]

7 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

I've said it before and, like an annoying scratched record (!), I'll say it again....

The fabled "unbeaten" run was a false positive... Draws were lauded as helping us in our question to achieve an ultimately meaningless "club record"... 

Look at Leicester... Top of the league despite having lost one more game than us... Yet they are 7 points ahead of us because we've drawn 9 games to their 4. 

Yes, out of context, a 25 game unbeaten run isn't a bad thing per se, but the club's obsession with it in the end  became a significant distraction... In my humble opinion...

The fact that it was a run of games is irrelevant. Like picking up a set of cards and finding that they are all sorted into the right order. They are the same set of cards even when you shuffle them.

A run of draws is worth less than a run of win-lose-win-lose and eventually the desire to keep the unbeaten streak going can lead to a less 'brave' mentality. 

[S-Clarke]

2 hours ago, CB Fry said:

The "it's not his fault the strikers miss chances" stuff is massively letting Martin off the hook.

Our defensive record is absolutely appalling. We should be capable with the players we have to win matches 1-0.

The reason we are fourth not second is not because of goals not scored, its because we are incapable of keeping them out the other end,or efficiently closing games out.

But, we knew all this from the pathetic record Martin had of dribbling Swansea to tenth and MK Dons to absolutely nowhere in League One.

Yes, 110% agree with you. I still see people on social media proclaiming the reason we're not where Ipswich are is because we don't score enough goals. ''Martin can't do anything if we can't score goals'' - bullshit, not buying it at all.

We score bags and bags and bags of goals, but we don't manage the leads we get ourselves into. 2-0 up, 2-2, 2-1 up, lose 3-2, 1-0 up lose 1-2 - it's a recurring theme and that's not because we don't score goals, it's because we fail to control the games in the second half and continuously provide any team we play a sniff - and teams will grab that sniff, no matter how shit they are.

I can count our comfortable wins on one hand where I can sit back on an hour and enjoy it, everything else has been edge of your pants stuff or last min rescue acts. I think that may be why I feel a little underwhelmed by our efforts this year, evne though we'll probably beat our 2012 points total.

Edited April 21 by S-Clarke

[Totton Saint]

40 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

What I take from that is our wet blotting paper defence. What on earth is Bednarek doing for their second? He can see that the player is going to shoot yet he doesn't attack the ball and just waits for the shot when you can see him shrink away from it. 

He's been doing this all season and it's cost us a fair few goals.

Yes. I noticed he turned his back to the ball instead of facing it. Then the ball deflected of his back into the goal.  Subs had no time left to settle in to the game.

[sandwichsaint]

Nine of our starting X1 yesterday have played in the PL, and all five of the subs too.

Can't say I recognise any name in the Cardiff side as being ex PL.

Got to think RM might be reflecting on that this morning?

[whelk]

Great number of urinals in the ground so there was one positive

[VectisSaint]

Just feel I need to say that all of the reasons that people come up with as to why we lost yesterday and why we keep throwing away leads are missing the point. Stephens shoehorning, Smallbone's shoehorning, Bazunu's inability to make saves, Mannings defensive woes, unable to hang on to a lead, don't score enough, concede too many, Martin can't manage subs etc etc. All have some merit, but in the end what has cost us this season is our inability to win games when Flynn Downes is not available. His injury near the start of the Huddersfield game (which we won but only after being 3-1 down) opened up the defence and made us really easy to score against. Unfortunately and this is not a criticism of Smallbone or Charles, we do not have a player who can match Downes' ability and influence in DM. We've had this before, like when we lost Romeu. It is a luxury to have 2 top class DMs but when one is so outstanding and is lost to injury it is a big problem. Unfortunately Downes is somewhat injury/illness prone as we have found to our cost, Smallbone, Charles, Rothwell are all decent midfielders and have other attributes but they cannot do the Downes job, especially when we play 4-3-3 as yesterday. OK, perhaps some blame on Martin for not recognising this and setting us up differently but to be honest yesterday at least we were so dominant first half and should have scored 4 or 5 by half-time if out forwards had not been so profligate (and a little nod to their keeper) you could see his thinking. Trouble is no team can keep that dominance up for 100 minutes. Don't know where we will go next season when Downes returns to his beloved West Ham.

[Galway saint]

58 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

Just feel I need to say that all of the reasons that people come up with as to why we lost yesterday and why we keep throwing away leads are missing the point. Stephens shoehorning, Smallbone's shoehorning, Bazunu's inability to make saves, Mannings defensive woes, unable to hang on to a lead, don't score enough, concede too many, Martin can't manage subs etc etc. All have some merit, but in the end what has cost us this season is our inability to win games when Flynn Downes is not available. His injury near the start of the Huddersfield game (which we won but only after being 3-1 down) opened up the defence and made us really easy to score against. Unfortunately and this is not a criticism of Smallbone or Charles, we do not have a player who can match Downes' ability and influence in DM. We've had this before, like when we lost Romeu. It is a luxury to have 2 top class DMs but when one is so outstanding and is lost to injury it is a big problem. Unfortunately Downes is somewhat injury/illness prone as we have found to our cost, Smallbone, Charles, Rothwell are all decent midfielders and have other attributes but they cannot do the Downes job, especially when we play 4-3-3 as yesterday. OK, perhaps some blame on Martin for not recognising this and setting us up differently but to be honest yesterday at least we were so dominant first half and should have scored 4 or 5 by half-time if out forwards had not been so profligate (and a little nod to their keeper) you could see his thinking. Trouble is no team can keep that dominance up for 100 minutes. Don't know where we will go next season when Downes returns to his beloved West Ham.

When you look at the bench if he’s not prepared to use Charles we have no other DM options so can’t change tack if we are under the coach. That’s a product of recruitment. FD is a good player but he’s not Kante and we should have found someone comparable with the resources we have. Instead of recruiting 85 wingers we would have been better off recruiting another decent DM, if RM didn’t fancy Charles. I don’t know if that’s down to RM or Wilcox or both. Equally I don’t know if RM would be prepared to change his approach but we are very brittle unless we are on the front foot and which you can’t be all the time. 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, VectisSaint said:

Just feel I need to say that all of the reasons that people come up with as to why we lost yesterday and why we keep throwing away leads are missing the point. Stephens shoehorning, Smallbone's shoehorning, Bazunu's inability to make saves, Mannings defensive woes, unable to hang on to a lead, don't score enough, concede too many, Martin can't manage subs etc etc. All have some merit, but in the end what has cost us this season is our inability to win games when Flynn Downes is not available. His injury near the start of the Huddersfield game (which we won but only after being 3-1 down) opened up the defence and made us really easy to score against. Unfortunately and this is not a criticism of Smallbone or Charles, we do not have a player who can match Downes' ability and influence in DM. We've had this before, like when we lost Romeu. It is a luxury to have 2 top class DMs but when one is so outstanding and is lost to injury it is a big problem. Unfortunately Downes is somewhat injury/illness prone as we have found to our cost, Smallbone, Charles, Rothwell are all decent midfielders and have other attributes but they cannot do the Downes job, especially when we play 4-3-3 as yesterday. OK, perhaps some blame on Martin for not recognising this and setting us up differently but to be honest yesterday at least we were so dominant first half and should have scored 4 or 5 by half-time if out forwards had not been so profligate (and a little nod to their keeper) you could see his thinking. Trouble is no team can keep that dominance up for 100 minutes. Don't know where we will go next season when Downes returns to his beloved West Ham.

I don't think West Ham have any interest in Downes.

[rallyboy]

We need a striker who can finish.

 

 

[whelk]

3 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

We need a striker who can finish.

 

 

If only we had bought Sam Szmodics. Great finish just now

[Saint_clark]

3 hours ago, DrSuess1979 said:

How can you blame the manager for strikers goalkeeper and defenders not doing their job.

The criticism I’d have with Russball, when the opposition is pressing high (when we are at that low point)  why aren’t we bypassing said press with balls in behind 

 

Sounds like you're blaming the manager?

[whelk]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Great number of urinals in the ground so there was one positive

Actually another positive thought their fans were ok. Never had much time for them but respectful to both Stu A and Sulemana when injured. Also in the city afterwards no animosity and really good feel about the place

[Midfield_General]

2 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Yes, 110% agree with you. I still see people on social media proclaiming the reason we're not where Ipswich are is because we don't score enough goals. ''Martin can't do anything if we can't score goals'' - bullshit, not buying it at all.

We score bags and bags and bags of goals, but we don't manage the leads we get ourselves into. 2-0 up, 2-2, 2-1 up, lose 3-2, 1-0 up lose 1-2 - it's a recurring theme and that's not because we don't score goals, it's because we fail to control the games in the second half and continuously provide any team we play a sniff - and teams will grab that sniff, no matter how shit they are.

I can count our comfortable wins on one hand where I can sit back on an hour and enjoy it, everything else has been edge of your pants stuff or last min rescue acts. I think that may be why I feel a little underwhelmed by our efforts this year, evne though we'll probably beat our 2012 points total.

Absolutely 100% nail on head.

The other constantly recurring theme is being utterly incapable of responding to changes in approach from the other team/ manager. He can't read a game, at all. It's the same pattern pretty much every game. 

Plan A: Pass pass pass pass, take a slender lead. 

Plan B: Shit, the other manager has made a basic change at 65 mins, the shape of the game has changed and now we're not winning anymore. I know, I'll throw on five attackers! 

I know under-12s managers who'd be embarrassed at showing that level of 'thinking'. 

Edited April 21 by Midfield_General

[Give it to Ron]

3 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Er, no. The majority on this forum I could see pre-match wanted Charles to start the game.

Exactly and what was point in shoe horning Stephens in for those games when last 2 not even played a minute an admission that was wrong?

We thought Stephens would be DCM yet again we went with someone proven already can’t play role Smallbone . When Aribo went off we had zero strength in midfield it was a cake walk through it.

Cant blame manager for first half misses but can for subs and tactics second half again!

[Mr X]

I think we shouldn't even bother with the playoffs as we all know how that would end let the others fight it out, save ourselves the misery and heartache!  😂

[FarehamSaintJames]

The only thing RM can be blamed for yesterday is not picking a like for like replacement in Shea Charles who is perfectly capable. 

That didn’t lose us the game though, we still had ample chances to win and our attackers let us down.

RM’s blame in this holding midfielder saga is the fact that this has been an issue for a number of games in 2024 when Downes has been out and he hasn’t learnt from it.

[The Cat]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

Actually another positive thought their fans were ok. Never had much time for them but respectful to both Stu A and Sulemana when injured. Also in the city afterwards no animosity and really good feel about the place

Yeah, Cardiff fans are sound and it's a great city.

Singing "England, England" to them is a waste of time because within Wales they are seen almost as English by their fellow countrymen.

Likewise the utterly pathetic "sheep shaggers" chants. Fuck all sheep in Cardiff. 

[badgerx16]

7 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Games unbeaten? So what? 
what did that really achieve, we never won more than 4 on the bounce!

We gained 1 point on Leeds, and nothing on Leicester.

[badgerx16]

We currently have the joint best goals scored, and eighth best goals conceded. I think we know where the problems lie.

[Fan The Flames]

Woke up gutted, still gutted now. Fuckin football.

[Dr Who?]

21 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

We currently have the joint best goals scored, and eighth best goals conceded. I think we know where the problems lie.

Seems to have a problem getting the balance right. Tried to address it at Blackburn and that was as dull game that we have had this season. I think considering he still has not worked it out, our best bet is to try and out score the opposition and not shut up shop… because we cannot. 

[Osvaldorama]

7 hours ago, Pamplemousse said:

The subs were dreadful but there'd be people moaning about him being negative if he had brought on Charles. 

 

Not if he’d done it at 1-0 like a good manager would have done. 
 

His second half management was fucking atrocious yesterday, same as all season really. 

Still absolutely gutted with that pathetic shit show. 

[rallyboy]

I don't want to come across all happy-clappy just as our promotion attempt threatens to shudder to a halt, but this campaign has been so much more entertaining and enjoyable than any season for about a decade.

And yes, we should be better placed, but it's been like watching proper football with ups and downs, rather than a weekly car crash.

[badgerx16]

42 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

I don't want to come across all happy-clappy just as our promotion attempt threatens to shudder to a halt, but this campaign has been so much more entertaining and enjoyable than any season for about a decade.

And yes, we should be better placed, but it's been like watching proper football with ups and downs, rather than a weekly car crash.

True, but it has probably been harder on the nerves than last season, when we went into almost every game expecting the worst. This season we have seen, time after time, a team that controls the game, takes the lead, then for no apparent reason falls apart and does their damnedest to chuck all the good work down the drain.

[Sheaf Saint]

8 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

What I take from that is our wet blotting paper defence. What on earth is Bednarek doing for their second? He can see that the player is going to shoot yet he doesn't attack the ball and just waits for the shot when you can see him shrink away from it. 

He's been doing this all season and it's cost us a fair few goals.

He's been doing it his entire career.

[Badger]

Yesterday was a strange one again. Unbelievable from being in complete control, but at the same time all too predictable.