The Spygate Saga

[AlexLaw76]

For all the moaning about Tonda potentially getting a ban a few weeks before the season starts...well, we could have sacked him the moment we were out of the playoffs.

This may go down as another wrong decision by SR

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

7 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

Yeah but, everyone loved Bielsa

The FA are waiting to see who comes up with the best suggestion for the punishment in the media

Which is exactly why our PR department needs to be working overtime making sure that Tonda is not made a scapegoat. He sent people out on scouting missions, not spying, which was a minor transgression. There's a danger this will snowball again - like when the original story was deliberately leaked out, it went from a jokey story to crime of the century - we need to take control.

There's a lot of competition but does anyone else dislike Boro more than any other club? Their management orchestrated the whole story.

[Turkish]

28 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

There are rules.

There are also rules like "bringing the game into disrepute" which covers unique/different/atypical situations. That kind of catch-all behaviour rules are written in every employment contract for every employee in the country. Basically don't be a twat and we judge what that is if we think you've done it.

No business or institution anywhere has an Encyclopedia Brittanica of every conceivable punishable offence all written out.

Why don’t they? It isn’t clear. How can people be expected to know what to do unless there is clear guidelines for every possible offence. 

Edited July 22 by Turkish

[CanadaSaint]

26 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

aaaaand we're back round to "its not in the rulebook so it can't be against the rules" horseshit.

I didn't say it's not against the rules. I was talking about where the FA's focus might be, given that the actual spying has already been punished by an entity that specifically references it in its rulebook. My personal opinion is that they might be more focused on the bullying related to the spying, rather than the spying itself. Especially as they know that their intervention in this matter will be precedent-setting across football, including the "big boys".

I think this might be why we appointed Salt after his central part in the shitshow.

[LiberalCommunist]

I'd rather have a suspended Tonda than a Will Sill (nothing personal, could have been any number of names inserted) on the sidelines for the start of the season. 

Standing by him was the right thing to do. And time will prove that. 

This thread will go on to be the most bumped/bookmarked thread in SW's history. 

[Challenger]

24 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

For all the moaning about Tonda potentially getting a ban a few weeks before the season starts...well, we could have sacked him the moment we were out of the playoffs.

This may go down as another wrong decision by SR

Can't be, Dragan said in his apology vid that wrong decisions were a thing of the past.

[CB Fry]

8 minutes ago, CanadaSaint said:

I didn't say it's not against the rules. I was talking about where the FA's focus might be, given that the actual spying has already been punished by an entity that specifically references it in its rulebook. My personal opinion is that they might be more focused on the bullying related to the spying, rather than the spying itself. Especially as they know that their intervention in this matter will be precedent-setting across football, including the "big boys".

I think this might be why we appointed Salt after his central part in the shitshow.

Precedent setting in that other clubs will tighten things up so that they don't ever get caught spying, you mean? Sounds like a good thing.

If you think suddenly there is going to a raft of spying charges against Premier League teams because of some "precedent" being set then you are going to be very disappointed. 

I think we have to accept that only our idiot club are stupid enough to get caught.

Anyway, the FA charges will mainly about the spying but I would think it will cover the culture around the coaching team as well, through the lens of Tonda being the head of that.

[bpsaint]

I’d like to think that our owners have made provisions in case Tonda does get a lengthy ban, and we have someone lined up to come in on a temporary basis, or permanent if it’s necessary.

Then I remember our owners are Sport Republic.

Edited July 23 by bpsaint

[CanadaSaint]

6 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Precedent setting in that other clubs will tighten things up so that they don't ever get caught spying, you mean? Sounds like a good thing.

If you think suddenly there is going to a raft of spying charges against Premier League teams because of some "precedent" being set then you are going to be very disappointed. 

I think we have to accept that only our idiot club are stupid enough to get caught.

Anyway, the FA charges will mainly about the spying but I would think it will cover the culture around the coaching team as well, through the lens of Tonda being the head of that.

CB, you often make good points on here but, just as often, you go full-on "straw man" to support your own personal and stridently expressed theory. Just as I didn't say "it's not against the rules", I didn't suggest "there is going to (be) a raft of spying charges against Premier League teams because of some 'precedent' being set."

My point was that the FA - who are notoriously reluctant to hold the big clubs to account for even blatant transgressions - might want to tread very carefully before wielding a meat cleaver on this one, for fear of having to take similar action against really big clubs with really smart lawyers. Or even smaller clubs with really smart lawyers.

I'm fine with seeing things differently to you - without misrepresenting what you said in an attempt make my viewpoint seem more credible. They're just opinions.

[EssEffCee]

8 hours ago, CanadaSaint said:

I didn't say it's not against the rules. I was talking about where the FA's focus might be, given that the actual spying has already been punished by an entity that specifically references it in its rulebook. My personal opinion is that they might be more focused on the bullying related to the spying, rather than the spying itself. Especially as they know that their intervention in this matter will be precedent-setting across football, including the "big boys".

I think this might be why we appointed Salt after his central part in the shitshow.

You don't need a personal opinion on something where the facts are out there and easily found. The FA have literally said it relates to the spying.

[Weston Super Saint]

27 minutes ago, EssEffCee said:

You don't need a personal opinion on something where the facts are out there and easily found. The FA have literally said it relates to the spying.

Quote

Southampton FC’s Tonda Eckert has been charged with three breaches of FA Rule E3.1 in relation to misconduct between December 2025 and May 2026.
 
It’s alleged that the head coach acted in an improper manner and/or brought the game into disrepute by directing and/or authorising the observation of training sessions of Oxford United FC, Ipswich Town FC and Middlesbrough FC ahead of fixtures between these clubs and Southampton FC in December 2025, April 2026 and May 2026 respectively. 
 
Tonda Eckert has until Tuesday 28 July 2026 to provide his responses.

https://www.thefa.com/news/2026/jul/22/tonda-eckert-charged-220726

[CB Fry]

8 hours ago, CanadaSaint said:

My point was that the FA - who are notoriously reluctant to hold the big clubs to account for even blatant transgressions - might want to tread very carefully before wielding a meat cleaver on this one, for fear of having to take similar action against really big clubs with really smart lawyers. Or even smaller clubs with really smart lawyers.

I'm not going to lie I have absolutely no idea what this is supposed to mean. 

You think the FA need "tread carefully" on charging us with spying because it could set a "precedent". But you also don't think any other clubs are about to be caught/charged with spying either. 

So what "precedent" is being created if you are not expecting any other club to face similar charges any time soon? 

I am worried that all you are saying is the millionth version of "why are we being punished when Manchester City aren't being punished".

To which the answer is: we wouldn't be being punished if we didn't do the spying. Whatever is or isn't happening with other "big clubs" with "smart lawyers" on completely different cases is not particularly relevant here.

[EssEffCee]

11 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

There's a lot of competition but does anyone else dislike Boro more than any other club? Their management orchestrated the whole story.

Ummmm no?

I don't particularly dislike Boro at all, just another club to me. I definitely don't dislike them more than the charity thieving inbreds down the road. 

Some people have lost the plot over this just as much as some Boro fans did early on when talking about getting the police involved and us being expelled from the EFL.

I find it odd that people even dislike them but different opinions and all that. Disliking them more than the skates though I genuinely find incredible.

[Weston Super Saint]

12 hours ago, EssEffCee said:

Ummmm no?

I don't particularly dislike Boro at all, just another club to me. I definitely don't dislike them more than the charity thieving inbreds down the road. 

Some people have lost the plot over this just as much as some Boro fans did early on when talking about getting the police involved and us being expelled from the EFL.

I find it odd that people even dislike them but different opinions and all that. Disliking them more than the skates though I genuinely find incredible.

I think they're amazing. Three chances to get promoted and they bottled them all.

What's not to like?

They're also the butt of shit pub quiz jokes up and down the country for the next 20 years.

[sad saints fan]

Is today the day we find out the punishment for Tonda from the F.A ?

[Disco Stu]

6 minutes ago, sad saints fan said:

Is today the day we find out the punishment for Tonda from the F.A ?

Today's the last day to appeal against the charges. If I had to guess, we'll find out tomorrow.

Edited Tuesday at 08:29 by Disco Stu

[benjii]

I thought today was the date for responding. There's nothing to appeal yet.

[CSA96]

Yeah, today is the final day for a response on whether he intends to accept the charges or contest the charges. Then it moves to the sanction stage. I would've thought that they already know what punishment they will hand down for this, so tomorrow does sound reasonable for an outcome

[westmidlandsaint]

I know from FA disciplinary hearings at grassroots level (I am a committee member of a grassroots team) that once charged you have the 'response date' of which Tonda's is today. If he chooses to appeal it or requests a personal hearing then a date is set for the hearing usually within a 2 week period. If he chooses to accept the charges then a quicker hearing without him/his legal team will go ahead and any sanctions will be communicated. Think we could be a while off hearing yet. Especially if he has requested to attend a hearing after Germany pre-season trip. 

Hope i am wrong as want this sorted.

Hopefully Tonda has been told accept and your sanction will be...

[The Kraken]

12 minutes ago, westmidlandsaint said:

Hopefully Tonda has been told accept and your sanction will be...

Yep, our best hope IMO is that the FA have communicated their expected sanction, and it’s deemed reasonable. I somehow doubt that is the case.  Solak seemed like he was lawyered up at his last public utterance, so just got to hope there’s no need for that and the FA’s line for punishment isn’t too strong.

4-6 match touchline ban seems like a bit of a hope, for me. Longer term full ban I reckon brings the lawyers in, and not sure what that then does if we appeal it straight away (in terms of Tonda’a availability until an appeal is heard). 

Edited Tuesday at 09:57 by The Kraken

[beatlesaint]

26 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

4-6 match touchline ban seems like a bit of a hope, for me. Longer term full ban I reckon brings the lawyers in, and not sure what that then does if we appeal it straight away (in terms of Tonda’a availability until an appeal is heard). 

Makes him available until the appeal is heard and they decide if sanctions are upheld, suspended or reduced.

[Give it to Ron]

At least Saltburn cricket have taken us off the hit list for now

[mss636]

Kind of expecting a decision tomorrow just because I’m on holiday and there’s a Skate here. Something draconian will f@@k my week away right up

[rallyboy]

If Steve Gibson has been given out caught behind at Saltburn, he'll be demanding the death penalty.

 

[Birder Saint]

Had to chuckle when i read that Middlesbro CC 2nd XI are lodging 2 extra complaints of Saltburn cheating against them. Something in the smoggy air in them parts

[East Kent Saint]

34 minutes ago, Birder Saint said:

Had to chuckle when i read that Middlesbro CC 2nd XI are lodging 2 extra complaints of Saltburn cheating against them. Something in the smoggy air in them parts

Fielder clicking his fingers as the ball passes the bat , umpire gives out caught behind ! Apparently Saltburn stats show they way ahead on catches by wicket keeper compared with the other league members . Plus other incidents....

[beatlesaint]

Honestly these sad bastards from the NE still commenting on Saints Facebook pages is a little bit creepy.

They got what they wanted, they blew their second chance so now move on ffs 🤦🏻 

[VectisSaint]

5 hours ago, The Kraken said:

 

4-6 match touchline ban seems like a bit of a hope, for me. Longer term full ban I reckon brings the lawyers in, and not sure what that then does if we appeal it straight away (in terms of Tonda’a availability until an appeal is heard). 

Is that per charge or in total?

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

4 hours ago, Give it to Ron said:

At least Saltburn cricket have taken us off the hit list for now

I love the fact the media felt it needed to give a name to the main perpetrator and has gone with Clicky Ponting.

[hypochondriac]

5 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Yep, our best hope IMO is that the FA have communicated their expected sanction, and it’s deemed reasonable. I somehow doubt that is the case.  Solak seemed like he was lawyered up at his last public utterance, so just got to hope there’s no need for that and the FA’s line for punishment isn’t too strong.

4-6 match touchline ban seems like a bit of a hope, for me. Longer term full ban I reckon brings the lawyers in, and not sure what that then does if we appeal it straight away (in terms of Tonda’a availability until an appeal is heard). 

Surely he won't be banned until after the result of an appeal. Might get a game or two in if it drags in much longer!

[St. Ciervo]

6 hours ago, westmidlandsaint said:

I know from FA disciplinary hearings at grassroots level (I am a committee member of a grassroots team) that once charged you have the 'response date' of which Tonda's is today. If he chooses to appeal it or requests a personal hearing then a date is set for the hearing usually within a 2 week period. If he chooses to accept the charges then a quicker hearing without him/his legal team will go ahead and any sanctions will be communicated. Think we could be a while off hearing yet. Especially if he has requested to attend a hearing after Germany pre-season trip. 

Hope i am wrong as want this sorted.

Hopefully Tonda has been told accept and your sanction will be...

If he has not been told what it is, then we need to drag it out as long as possible (Man City Defense). 

Is there an appeal option if we choose the quicker hearing w/o our participation and get screwed again? If not, that is a suicidal option.

[hypochondriac]

Just now, St. Ciervo said:

If he has not been told what it is, then we need to drag it out as long as possible (Man City Defense). 

Is there an appeal option if we choose the quicker hearing w/o our participation and get screwed again? If not, that is a suicidal option.

Indeed. Absolutely should not be asking for any sort of expedited appeals process if the punishment is too draconian. 

[The Kraken]

55 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

Is that per charge or in total?

That’s nothing more than my guess at what might be considered a ‘reasonable’ punishment whereby we can just get on with it and suck it up. I have zero idea whatsoever what the FA are likely to hand down. Nor do I know what the club are likely to do even with a slap on the wrists, they may decide they’re fighting everything. We’ll see.

But I agree with the sentiment others have expressed, the club has backed Tonda so they’ve now got to go all guns blazing should the penalty be severe. A protracted appeal, then appeal to CAS, whatever else can be done to draw it out. The FA could have charged Tonda within days but they chose to take weeks instead, so we owe them nothing in terms of hurrying things along.

Edited Tuesday at 16:22 by The Kraken

[hypochondriac]

So is tomorrow day one of PT? (post Tonda) or is this dragging on for a few weeks yet?

[Sir Ralph]

I honestly think they are going to give Tonda a lengthy ban even though they have taken too long to charge him and left us in no position to get a replacement before the season starts. They have acted like jumped up bureaucrats over the entire spygate matter and the whole issue seems to have gone to their heads

Edited Tuesday at 21:54 by Sir Ralph

[Secret Site Agent]

I see Emmerdale have cottoned onto Spygate in its latest storyline

 

[trousers]

I still keep coming back to this post from @SaintlyAnd back in May...

 

 

That coupled with the club's 'offer' to help set up a working group to look into the wider practice of 'spying' by many/most other clubs...

Have the club now dropped their "it's not only us that does this, it's widespread guv" stance on the whole 'spygate' saga and, even if they have, why (seemingly) aren't the EFL and/or FA looking into it further regardless? (Rather than just dealing with Saints and then sweeping the supposed more widespread practice of 'illegal spying' under the rug...)

Edited yesterday at 17:00 by trousers

[skintsaint]

Bit mad that Chelsea probably have received a lesser sentence for a worse 'crime' committed in the world of football integrity. 

[CylonKing]

29 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Bit mad that Chelsea probably have received a lesser sentence for a worse 'crime' committed in the world of football integrity. 

Exactly what I thought!

[Badger]

32 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Bit mad that Chelsea probably have received a lesser sentence for a worse 'crime' committed in the world of football integrity. 

It’ll be swept under the carpet and forgotten. 
 

£10m is a drop in the ocean for Chelsea, the FA have just gone through the motions.

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Badger

[Sunglasses Ron]

39 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Bit mad that Chelsea probably have received a lesser sentence for a worse 'crime' committed in the world of football integrity. 

Man City must be absolutely terrified at what's coming their way.

I reckon it will be a £50k fine suspended for 10 years and a requirement to travel to their next away match on public transport.

[saintant]

48 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Bit mad that Chelsea probably have received a lesser sentence for a worse 'crime' committed in the world of football integrity. 

They were dealt with by the FA who are handling the Tonda Eckert case. It will be a bit rich if they hammer him after the leniency shown to Chelsea who were done for a high number of offences yet even had their points deduction suspended. Hopefully our lawyers are ready to act if Tonda has the book thrown at him.

[qwertyell]

3 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Bit mad that Chelsea probably have received a lesser sentence for a worse 'crime' committed in the world of football integrity. 

Chelsea turned themselves in - the new owners took a look at the books and the dodgy practices the previous ownership employed, and immediately self reported to the FA. 

Up until then, the FA had no idea what the club had been up to.

Chelsea's transparency and relative honesty earned them some brownie points and a soft landing. 

Perhaps if our own club had shown a similar level of integrity, we wouldn't be in this mess. 

[Bob60]

24 minutes ago, qwertyell said:

Chelsea turned themselves in - the new owners took a look at the books and the dodgy practices the previous ownership employed, and immediately self reported to the FA. 

Up until then, the FA had no idea what the club had been up to.

Chelsea's transparency and relative honesty earned them some brownie points and a soft landing. 

Perhaps if our own club had shown a similar level of integrity, we wouldn't be in this mess. 

What a load of old pony, Chelsea were being looked at for ages with the Russian in charge, the new owners took the only way out. 

Also as soon as we were reported to the EFL we admitted everything as has Tonda.

[Ted Bates Statue]

48 minutes ago, qwertyell said:

Chelsea turned themselves in - the new owners took a look at the books and the dodgy practices the previous ownership employed, and immediately self reported to the FA. 

Up until then, the FA had no idea what the club had been up to.

Chelsea's transparency and relative honesty earned them some brownie points and a soft landing. 

Perhaps if our own club had shown a similar level of integrity, we wouldn't be in this mess. 

The precedent was there for the FA to throw the book at Chelsea after their treatment of Luton in the late 2000s. They blew the whistle on themselves and were rewarded by enough points deductions to get launched into the National League.

The relative scale of what Chelsea were doing under Abramovic would have meant a pro-rata punishment of thousands of points being deducted, but the FA's initial stance was -15 (which would have relegated them last season) and then decided to row back to the point of giving them no punishment at all.

Between Gibson teleporting his team into the playoff final, Trump intervening with the Balogun red card and now Chelsea with their illegal payments, Dragan now hopefully has his eyes fully opened as how all manner of tomfoolery off the pitch can be accepted, providing he can back it up with the right legal team. 

And I really hope we do now, as we know full well that it'll drive the parmo-eating simpletons up north completely bonkers.