The Spygate Saga

[Maggie May]

3 minutes ago, carljack said:

I have not heard anybody talk about where this leaves the FAs fit and proper persons test,surely the owners of MC should be excluded from going anywhere near a Football Club in England and one could argue any business,Abramovich was made to sell Chelski.This goes far beyond Football,it stinks !

The fit and proper persons test is down to the Premier League.

[carljack]

Just now, Maggie May said:

The fit and proper persons test is down to the Premier League.

Sorry I thought the FA also had a FPPT test,but surely Fraud and/or corruption has taken place here,I am not sure it is legal to disguise payments in any UK business,how many of us have worked or do work in industries where we have to know your client and the source of their funds for any sort of financial transaction.I am sure our legal eagles can run the rule over this.OWTS !

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, bangkoksaint said:

I have some sympathy for City fans. Like us the club have committed a rules breach and ultimately it’s the fans that suffer. 

What percentage of City fans are true, lifelong City fans? They must have a core of die hards but their fan base seems to be dominated by tourists and glory hunters? 

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

1 hour ago, Jack said:

Yeah must be terrible going from mid table dross to winning everything for a decade

Poor sods were complaining about having to travel to Wembley too often as well.

Won't somebody PLEASE think of the City fans!

[Toussaint]

Maybe it’s about time our football was run like American football or Australian rules football, salary caps, squad caps, home grown player requirements and so on, the premier league is now beyond ridiculous, the rich have got so much richer and the ladder has been well and truly pulled up. Where there are such huge sums of money there will always be corruption. 

[AlexLaw76]

6 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Maybe it’s about time our football was run like American football or Australian rules football, salary caps, squad caps, home grown player requirements and so on, the premier league is now beyond ridiculous, the rich have got so much richer and the ladder has been well and truly pulled up. Where there are such huge sums of money there will always be corruption. 

That is a football pyramid, right?

compare us to Barnet or Bromley and see what is fair and what isn’t.

[The Kraken]

5 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Maybe it’s about time our football was run like American football or Australian rules football, salary caps, squad caps, home grown player requirements and so on, the premier league is now beyond ridiculous, the rich have got so much richer and the ladder has been well and truly pulled up. Where there are such huge sums of money there will always be corruption. 

I don’t think a US system would have stopped this. City are guilty of over inflating sponsorship deals, and also of paying substantial sums to club staff through other companies outside of the City group, so that those wages don’t appear in PSR calculations. It’s skullduggery on an obscene level to cheat the financial rules already in place.

[trousers]

6 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

That is a football pyramid, right?

Yes, as long as you put a passive-agressive ", right?" at the end of every question...

Edited yesterday at 11:59 by trousers

[Whitey Grandad]

51 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

That is a football pyramid, right?

compare us to Barnet or Bromley and see what is fair and what isn’t.

But a pyramid that's not set in stone. 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Toussaint said:

Maybe it’s about time our football was run like American football or Australian rules football, salary caps, squad caps, home grown player requirements and so on, the premier league is now beyond ridiculous, the rich have got so much richer and the ladder has been well and truly pulled up. Where there are such huge sums of money there will always be corruption. 

That's why the European super league could be a good thing. 

[Mr X]

2 hours ago, Toussaint said:

What percentage of City fans are true, lifelong City fans? They must have a core of die hards but their fan base seems to be dominated by tourists and glory hunters? 

Same for all the big clubs in the premier league very few live anywhere near the club they support.... Aka glory hunters I find it weird but each to their own 

[macca155]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

That's why the European super league could be a good thing. 

Not as an exclusive entity as originally intended, but there is a case for extending the pyramid another notch.

As long as it is accessible to everyone, it would vastly improve the Premier league, as that would become a bit more wild west like the Championship.

You can imagine that quality run clubs, like Brentford or Brighton, having a real dig at the title. Plus teams like Saints wouldn't have to pile on debt to survive in the top division. 

[sockeye]

14 minutes ago, macca155 said:

Not as an exclusive entity as originally intended, but there is a case for extending the pyramid another notch.

As long as it is accessible to everyone, it would vastly improve the Premier league, as that would become a bit more wild west like the Championship.

You can imagine that quality run clubs, like Brentford or Brighton, having a real dig at the title. Plus teams like Saints wouldn't have to pile on debt to survive in the top division. 

A bit cynical, but the idea is like a playground for the minnows to wear the king's crown for a day whilst the fat cats get fatter.

Being in the PL as is at least gives us the ability to make the giants wobble.

[Saint Fan CaM]

58 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Same for all the big clubs in the premier league very few live anywhere near the club they support.... Aka glory hunters I find it weird but each to their own 

Or perhaps they support their home team but prefer not to live in a northern shit-hole? Just a thought.

[CB Fry]

8 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Or perhaps they support their home team but prefer not to live in a northern shit-hole? Just a thought.

Yeah that's definitely how it works for all the United/City/Liverpool fans in Somerset and Berkshire. They're all born and bred Northerners who just happen to have moved to Bracknell.

[warsash saint]

4 hours ago, Toussaint said:

What percentage of City fans are true, lifelong City fans? They must have a core of die hards but their fan base seems to be dominated by tourists and glory hunters? 

Exactly - the last time we played them in the Premier League, their place was worse than Old Trafford & Anfield for tourists (& that's saying something!!)

[Saint Marky]

While we have basically been hung drawn and quartered and are still awaiting tondas fate, as the judge gets measured for his black cap. Then you look at the punishments they have dished out to us (so far and yes a different board), I personally think they’ve totally fucked themselves.
Year upon year of systematic cheating, the blatant overspending to buy success, denying others a fair chance at the cups and titles and champions league…. oh dear city, you are finished as a football entity, because obviously using the scale of judgement against us and punishments applied,  I’m extremely confident the same totally over the top scale will be applied to City, yeah fucking right…..

[Lord Duckhunter]

The rules are a load of fucking pony anyway. All this pearl clutching in the media about City & how they’ve “cheated”. The rules are only in place to protect the established clubs, who spent what they wanted historically and now want to pull up the drawbridge behind them. 
 

Theres absolutely no punishment they can come up with which will make any City fan think “I wish we hadn’t won all those premier league’s, cups and the champions league, it just wasn’t worth it, look where we are now”. If they think they can find a suitable punishment, then my cocks a carrot. The whole thing is a friggin farce. 

[Zorba]

6 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

But a pyramid that's not set in stone. 

That’s Pharaoh nuff, Giza.

[Barton Saint]

There is a much higher percentage of City fans who live in Greater Manchester than United for sure

[UpweySaint]

36 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The rules are a load of fucking pony anyway. All this pearl clutching in the media about City & how they’ve “cheated”. The rules are only in place to protect the established clubs, who spent what they wanted historically and now want to pull up the drawbridge behind them. 
 

Theres absolutely no punishment they can come up with which will make any City fan think “I wish we hadn’t won all those premier league’s, cups and the champions league, it just wasn’t worth it, look where we are now”. If they think they can find a suitable punishment, then my cocks a carrot. The whole thing is a friggin farce. 

The snowmen round your way must be obscene 

[Dan Johnson]

3 hours ago, Saint Marky said:

using the scale of judgement against us and punishments applied

Our punishment was handed to us by the EFL, not the FA.

We haven’t received, as yet, any punishment from the FA. 

[Turkish]

Without cheating Saints have been deducted 14 points in total in our history. Can you name the 5 teams who have been deducted more. 
this does not include Swindon who were relegated two divisions but did not face a point deduction 

[Saint Marky]

1 hour ago, Dan Johnson said:

Our punishment was handed to us by the EFL, not the FA.

We haven’t received, as yet, any punishment from the FA. 

Fuck me, that’s what I posted.

[Badger]

14 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Without cheating Saints have been deducted 14 points in total in our history. Can you name the 5 teams who have been deducted more. 
this does not include Swindon who were relegated two divisions but did not face a point deduction 

Luton, Sheff Weds spring to mind.

Skates ? 

[Charlie Wayman]

5 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Or perhaps they support their home team but prefer not to live in a northern shit-hole? Just a thought.

I support Southampton but would hate to live in the City. Maybe not a SH as you call it but not far off.

From what is revealed on this forum not many contributors live anywhere near Southampton either.

 

When the dust has settled on the whole ManC affair, we will remember the very high standards of football that they achieved when literally money was no object and they had the pick of the world's best talent. 

[Turkish]

40 minutes ago, Badger said:

Luton, Sheff Weds spring to mind.

Skates ? 

Skates were only deducted 10 points I believe. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

4 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The rules are a load of fucking pony anyway. All this pearl clutching in the media about City & how they’ve “cheated”. The rules are only in place to protect the established clubs, who spent what they wanted historically and now want to pull up the drawbridge behind them. 
 

Theres absolutely no punishment they can come up with which will make any City fan think “I wish we hadn’t won all those premier league’s, cups and the champions league, it just wasn’t worth it, look where we are now”. If they think they can find a suitable punishment, then my cocks a carrot. The whole thing is a friggin farce. 

I'm not going to fall for the "I've got a carrot to finish your snowman" line again this winter. 🙂

[Zorba]

4 hours ago, Turkish said:

Without cheating Saints have been deducted 14 points in total in our history. Can you name the 5 teams who have been deducted more. 
this does not include Swindon who were relegated two divisions but did not face a point deduction 

Derby

[Doctoroncall]

8 hours ago, Turkish said:

Without cheating Saints have been deducted 14 points in total in our history. Can you name the 5 teams who have been deducted more. 
this does not include Swindon who were relegated two divisions but did not face a point deduction 

Bournemouth, Luton, Sheffield W, Derby and Rotherham?

[Weston Super Saint]

23 hours ago, trousers said:

Quick 'out of curiosity' question to anyone ITK...

If the club wanted to, would they be at liberty to 'go public' on how the hearing went on Thursday, even if only releasing a holding statement that probably doesn't tell us much, or are they under an embargo not to say a single word, not even a one-liner holding statement, until the FA say we can?  

I know the response to my curiosity on here will be: "What's the point of saying anything at all if they can't actually tell us any details" but that's not my point. I'm just curious as to what they are at liberty to say, even if there's "no point" in doing so.

Thank you kindly fellow Saintswebbers

 

If the outcome is yet to be decided - because they are deliberating and cojitating - then the statement is likely to read : "man turns up for meeting".

[Weston Super Saint]

17 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

But a pyramid that's not set in stone. 

What use is a pyramid that's not set in stone, right?

[whelk]

11 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The rules are a load of fucking pony anyway. All this pearl clutching in the media about City & how they’ve “cheated”. The rules are only in place to protect the established clubs, who spent what they wanted historically and now want to pull up the drawbridge behind them. 
 

Theres absolutely no punishment they can come up with which will make any City fan think “I wish we hadn’t won all those premier league’s, cups and the champions league, it just wasn’t worth it, look where we are now”. If they think they can find a suitable punishment, then my cocks a carrot. The whole thing is a friggin farce. 

They have cheated you daft twat. Look at how fucked Newcastle have been with similar state ownership - which is funny btw. Could’ve kept Elliot Anderson if paid staff off the books etc. Hope they get put in League one

Edited 14 hours ago by whelk

[Whitey Grandad]

19 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

What use is a pyramid that's not set in stone, right?

What's a meta for?

[Whitey Grandad]

16 minutes ago, whelk said:

They have cheated you daft twat. Look at how fucked Newcastle have been with similar state ownership - which is funny btw. Could’ve kept Elliot Anderson if paid staff off the books etc. Hope they get put in League one

National League surely? 

[EssEffCee]

12 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The rules are a load of fucking pony anyway. All this pearl clutching in the media about City & how they’ve “cheated”. The rules are only in place to protect the established clubs, who spent what they wanted historically and now want to pull up the drawbridge behind them. 
 

Theres absolutely no punishment they can come up with which will make any City fan think “I wish we hadn’t won all those premier league’s, cups and the champions league, it just wasn’t worth it, look where we are now”. If they think they can find a suitable punishment, then my cocks a carrot. The whole thing is a friggin farce. 

I agree the rules are bollocks but this is bigger than them simply overspending in relation to the rules isn't it?

Under the table payments and submitting false accounts is a whole different level to spending beyond the financial rules limits like say Leicester did.

[EssEffCee]

9 hours ago, Turkish said:

Skates were only deducted 10 points I believe. 

They got 9 in PL and 10 the year we went up under Adkins.

Might have got another 10 in L1 too?

[whelk]

9 minutes ago, EssEffCee said:

I agree the rules are bollocks but this is bigger than them simply overspending in relation to the rules isn't it?

Under the table payments and submitting false accounts is a whole different level to spending beyond the financial rules limits like say Leicester did.

Exactly. Wasn’t it Forest who got docked for being a million out over one month or something pretty trivial?  They cannot ignore how harsh they have penalised others for basically misdemeanours in comparison to this.

[whelk]

28 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

National League surely? 

Yeah should be

[LiberalCommunist]

I think the waiting might well be over. I think there's going to be a Monday morning dump. 

And then the wait begins. 

[egg]

49 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

National League surely? 

League 2 for me, but there's an argument for lower. Points just puts them out of the PL for a season, and that's no punishment for what they've done. 

[Viking Saint]

The thing about dropping them down multiple leagues is that it makes those leagues a mockery while they're in it. What's the point of any other teams playing the league that season, to get 10-nil'ed by City and for them to walk the league??

 

 

[saintant]

10 minutes ago, Viking Saint said:

The thing about dropping them down multiple leagues is that it makes those leagues a mockery while they're in it. What's the point of any other teams playing the league that season, to get 10-nil'ed by City and for them to walk the league??

 

 

They'll be strong but if anyone thinks a single one of their first team squad will stay in those circumstances they are living in cloud cuckoo land. There will be a mass exodus and a major rebuild of their squad.

Edited 12 hours ago by saintant

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

25 minutes ago, Viking Saint said:

The thing about dropping them down multiple leagues is that it makes those leagues a mockery while they're in it. What's the point of any other teams playing the league that season, to get 10-nil'ed by City and for them to walk the league??

 

 

May make it a mockery but they'll be out of the top league for a season or two and fall massively behind the others.

[Teamsaint1]

1 hour ago, EssEffCee said:

They got 9 in PL and 10 the year we went up under Adkins.

Might have got another 10 in L1 too?

AI says they had 9 in March 2010, first PL team to go into admin.

10 in Feb 2012 in the championship

10 in April 2013 in L1.

 But despite this and the gun runner owner, they simply never cheat .

 

[macca155]

I'm not sure that would be the case, as long as you have access to a Euro league. Three up three down that sort of thing. However never happen, no one is paying mega bucks for Bournemouth v Porto.

The model they have is as good as it gets really. The success of the conference shows there is an appetite for it, with smaller clubs.

The real battle is to avoid the franchise, closed shop model, so beloved of the Americans. No doubt they'll continue to push for that, whilst stopping any other league becoming a competitor.

[Badger]

34 minutes ago, saintant said:

They'll be strong but if anyone thinks a single one of their first team squad will stay in those circumstances they are living in cloud cuckoo land. There will be a mass exodus and a major rebuild of their squad.

It doesn’t take Einstein to suggest that demoted to L2 even they’ll start the season with a bigger and better squad than Cheltenham, Exeter, Gillingham and the like. 

[Gloucester Saint]

11 hours ago, Turkish said:

Skates were only deducted 10 points I believe. 

Luton got a huge deduction - 30 points IIRC which relegated them to non league in 2008.

 

[Tamesaint]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Exactly. Wasn’t it Forest who got docked for being a million out over one month or something pretty trivial?  They cannot ignore how harsh they have penalised others for basically misdemeanours in comparison to this.

WBA last season were docked points when spend on charities was treated differently from previous seasons.

[VectisSaint]

I thought the Villa friendly was next Friday. I read elsewhere we lost 1-0. No details. Surprised no one on here knows anything about it if it did get played.