Saints 0-0 West Ham - Match Thread

[SaintsFan86]

48 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

Team is a worry, with no likely no Ings and Vestergaard. 

Stephens is trash, but think Ralph will stick with him

Given Adams/Theo combination worked whilst Ings was injured before, I’d go back to this, and play two of Armstrong, Moussa or Redmond (if fit?)

Romeu being back is massive for us. 
expecting a very tough game, against a very solid side. They won’t make the same mistake again against us, and play Noble unfortunately. We also seem to struggle a bit with teams that have full backs. Think they’ll come for a drawer, but play on the counter with Antonio and Haller up top. 
 

1-1.

Oh how fickle fans are, Stephens is trash?! And how will we come without Vestergaard...

Roll back months, that was the opposite. Stephens is not trash., Ralph will do what he feels is best for the result and the team.

[Saint Garrett]

4 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said:

Oh how fickle fans are, Stephens is trash?! And how will we come without Vestergaard...

Roll back months, that was the opposite. Stephens is not trash., Ralph will do what he feels is best for the result and the team.

In my opinion, which I am entitled to, he is trash, has always been trash, and will never be good enough to play week in week out in the premier league. If he does, that side will struggle. 
 

Only my opinion. 

[SaintsFan86]

2 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

In my opinion, which I am entitled to, he is trash, has always been trash, and will never be good enough to play week in week out in the premier league. If he does, that side will struggle. 
 

Only my opinion. 

Fair enough, But as a manager, Ralph thrives in the premier league. You would struggle in Vanarama South. 👍

[Saint Pete]

20 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

In my opinion, which I am entitled to, he is trash, has always been trash, and will never be good enough to play week in week out in the premier league. If he does, that side will struggle. 
 

Only my opinion. 

Fair point though that not many would have been bemoaning Vestergaard being unavailable for selection just a few months ago when he was widely thought not good enough and far too slow for this league. So opinions of some at least must have changed?

I'm not a massive Stephens fan but he was a regular in the side alongside Bednarek in our strong run at end of last season when he was consistently selected ahead of Vestergaard by Ralph.

It's a shame Vestergaard is out as he has been in good form, but personally I don't see as huge a difference in quality of the 2 players as some are making out. Both are capable of decent performances, but also have clear defensive frailties which will ultimately probably mean they won't reach the very top level.

[Saint Matty 76]

There's a huge difference between the two in what they bring to the team in an attacking sense, more so than a defensive one.

We drastically missed Vestergaards passing through the lines yesterday, and we had absolutely zero threat from a decent amount of set pieces (apart from one headed chance which Stephens skewed way wide). 

I agree they're probably at a similar level defensively, but Vestergaard brings way more to the team than that now, and I think that's why we were largely struggling to create too many chances.

[Saint Pete]

I don't disagree that Vestergaard's recent form has been excellent, especially his passing. I just don't think we have seen that from him for a long enough period yet (combined with being passably good on the defensive side which is essential for a CB) to know if this can be his permanent level or just a purple patch of confidence and form. I hope he can keep this level of form when he returns but we'll see.

[qwertyell]

Bit concerned by Hasenhuttl's post-match comments from the Fulham game where he said we'd have had no chance of coming back if we'd conceded the first goal. Weird thing to say.

Does he really have no ideas up his sleeve to adapt Plan A according to the challenges any given game throws up?

Anyway, West Ham will kill us in the air - Souchek scoring from a set piece. Or Antonio will play and thoroughly brutalise our centre backs like he always does.

Happy new year.

Edited 27 December, 2020 by qwertyell

[Hamilton Saint]

2 hours ago, OttawaSaint said:

It seems MLG has been hoist by his own petard...

No. A selling club, it seems to me--and this is the point that MLG was making--is not one that sells players, but one that needs to sell players in order to survive financially.

Edited 27 December, 2020 by Hamilton Saint

[Matthew Le God]

3 hours ago, egg said:

Ronaldo? Neymar? Weren't they sold by those non selling clubs? 

 

3 hours ago, OttawaSaint said:

It seems MLG has been hoist by his own petard...

 

1 hour ago, Hamilton Saint said:

No. A selling club, it seems to me--and this is the point that MLG was making--is not one that sells players, but one that needs to sell players in order to survive financially.

Or more that it doesn't lose its best players in their prime. Ronaldo is not in his prime, he is in decline.

As for Neymar, you need to reassess why he left.

Edited 28 December, 2020 by Matthew Le God

[OttawaSaint]

8 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

 

 

Or more that it doesn't lose it's best players in their prime. Ronaldo is not in his prime, he is in decline.

As for Neymar, you need to reassess why he left.

Not buying it. I don’t trust anyone who doesn’t know when to use an apostrophe or not.

[Saint Fan CaM]

I don’t usually have us down to beat Wet Sham and this game is no different. They’re a bogey team and Antonio in particular is the type of player our defence always struggles against. We go behind, we lose. We go one up and don’t close the game down, we lose. 0-2 loss I’m afraid.

[Saint Keef]

5 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Don't let's go down the boring old conspiracy theory route again. We do not operate like that any more. We are not a selling club.

Ralph said Vestergaard had a knee problem.

It's not really a conspiracy theory. Just a thought. We all know the club is not awash with money. If the right money was offered for Vesty and he wanted to go, regrettably, I think  we'd be a selling club. I'm not sure what the "right money" would be, obviously a lot more than the start of the season based on his performances.  Clubs such as ours and many other less fortunate clubs cannot sustain paying players wages indefinitely with no crowds in the ground and with the latest Covid Tier structure, no clue as to when we will return.. Now I'm no business or financial expert by any means but even I can see it's just not sustainable. So if a club offered lots of £'s for one of your centre backs, personally I think it would be considered, particularly if the player wants to go......as sad as that would be.  The fact that Ralph has said 4 weeks which would take us to just about the end of the transfer window.......not a conspiracy theory, just thoughts, with a little bit of logic thrown in.

[Matthew Le God]

24 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Not buying it. I don’t trust anyone who doesn’t know when to use an apostrophe or not.

I do, my phone doesn't when typing.

[JRM]

9 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

In my opinion, which I am entitled to, he is trash, has always been trash, and will never be good enough to play week in week out in the premier league. If he does, that side will struggle. 
 

Only my opinion. 

It's a shame your opinion is such a negative one, Stephens has been prone so occasional errors but he's a decent player who has had many excellent performances as well. 2nd half of last season we had an excellent run of results where he featured, playing well. 

Also remember he completed his football education in the Saints academy and has been with the club a long time now , nearly has 100 appearances, so not sure trash is a fair word to use. 

Going back to the game obviously hope he's not up against Antonio, but I'd say that about any of our defenders. Who knows with Salisu but clearly Ralph hasn't seen enough from him in training, I'm sure he'll get a chance to impress against Shrewsbury in a couple of weeks.  

For me our front 3 is more worrying than the back 4. 

[Convict Colony]

Jack Stephens was joint 2nd assist maker for us last season 1 behind Redmond.

Thought he came in and played well and made a important block at the end.

Edited 28 December, 2020 by Convict Colony

[egg]

3 minutes ago, JRM said:

It's a shame your opinion is such a negative one, Stephens has been prone so occasional errors but he's a decent player who has had many excellent performances as well. 2nd half of last season we had an excellent run of results where he featured, playing well. 

Also remember he completed his football education in the Saints academy and has been with the club a long time now , nearly has 100 appearances, so not sure trash is a fair word to use. 

Going back to the game obviously hope he's not up against Antonio, but I'd say that about any of our defenders. Who knows with Salisu but clearly Ralph hasn't seen enough from him in training, I'm sure he'll get a chance to impress against Shrewsbury in a couple of weeks.  

For me our front 3 is more worrying than the back 4. 

I agree with that. Our back 4 was solid against Fulham. The only thing Vest would have added was his runs and long passes. Sure, they’re very good, but when you’re relying on a centre back as your playmaker, it’s obvious that there are issues elsewhere. With us, the 2 number 10’s aren’t creating, and the front 2 without Ings look incapable of creating much for themselves or each other. 
 

[AlexLaw76]

17 minutes ago, egg said:

I agree with that. Our back 4 was solid against Fulham. The only thing Vest would have added was his runs and long passes. Sure, they’re very good, but when you’re relying on a centre back as your playmaker, it’s obvious that there are issues elsewhere. With us, the 2 number 10’s aren’t creating, and the front 2 without Ings look incapable of creating much for themselves or each other. 
 

Solid is stretching it. They had a couple of moments where they were totally free in the middle of our penalty area. I do not recall us having the same freedoms the other end. 

the air shot and the free header spring to mind.

Great block at the end though

 

[Saint_Tony]

could really do with winning this to open up a gap between ourselves and West Ham. They always seem to be a problem for us, although have a couple of players out and short turnaround between games. Going to go for a cagey 1-0 Saints win via the shin of Che Adams from 2 yards

[SuperSAINT]

4 minutes ago, Saint_Tony said:

could really do with winning this to open up a gap between ourselves and West Ham. They always seem to be a problem for us, although have a couple of players out and short turnaround between games. Going to go for a cagey 1-0 Saints win via the shin of Che Adams from 2 yards

Good luck with that.  I hate West Ham and they always do us over — even when they are crap.

I seem to recall us playing them around this time one year when they had about 10 injuries and they still thumped us.

[Soggy Bottom]

Jack Stephens unfortunately switches off in games and ends up out of position or making space, he did against Fulham luckily they didn't have much quality up front.

A run of games I'm sure would help but in this league with the quality players it has in it you get punished.

Maybe a loan to Fulham or WBA he would benefit but that leaves us with an unproven Salisu who has only just made the bench as back up.

 

Why RH picks Long I have no idea, I hope he isn't in the starting 11 for this game.

[WALK DMC]

I thought that Diallo was tidy and competent on Saturday, but understandably he will lose his place to Romeu tomorrow.

He doesn't appear to have exceptional creativity or passing range, and is probably best suited as a defensive midfielder. With Redmond injured, Armstrong not in great form and Walcott possibly partnering Che up front, perhaps one option would be to play JWP further forward (right attacking midfielder) and allow Diallo & Romeu to play as the defensive pair. 

I recognise breaking up JWP/Romeu is a risk; they have been the foundation of much of our achievements this year, but getting Diallo further integrated into the team and rewarding a good performance with another opportunity could reap benefits tomorrow and into the future. 

I wouldn't suggest this change if all of our key players were fit and in form, but with the current circumstances it could be something to consider and would have the added benefit of not changing Ralph's preferred 4-2-2-2 formation. 

[woodsaint1]

1 hour ago, Soggy Bottom said:

Jack Stephens unfortunately switches off in games and ends up out of position or making space, he did against Fulham luckily they didn't have much quality up front.

A run of games I'm sure would help but in this league with the quality players it has in it you get punished.

Maybe a loan to Fulham or WBA he would benefit but that leaves us with an unproven Salisu who has only just made the bench as back up.

 

Why RH picks Long I have no idea, I hope he isn't in the starting 11 for this game.

A loan to teams with worse defences will do wonders for his confidence. Hes had nearly 100 PL games, he doesnt need a loan to another PL club. We need him here

[for_heaven's_Saint]

Assume there’s a press conference today at some point?

[davefizzy14]

1 hour ago, for_heaven's_Saint said:

Assume there’s a press conference today at some point?

Hopefully there is

[Medrurkin]

17 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Don't let's go down the boring old conspiracy theory route again. We do not operate like that any more. We are not a selling club.

Ralph said Vestergaard had a knee problem.

To be honest, this time last year we would have had problems selling anyone except Ings. The price we got for Hojberg shows that our squad does not attract a lot of attention recently. The past 6 months have given a brighter polish, and RH himself expressed surprise at where we are currently. We can only assert that we are not a selling club when there are buyers knocking at the door, and we don't sell, which isn't likely to be anytime soon, with the greatest respect to the current squad.

[SuperSAINT]

https://www.hammers.news/injury-news/exwhuemployee-shares-massive-boost-for-west-ham-ahead-of-southampton-clash/

The most #saints injury news you could expect.

[davefizzy14]

For all those who have been negative towards Shane, I personally thought that he grew into the game on Boxing Day. His first start of the season too, he was always going to be a bit rusty. Was a great finish for the disallowed goal, he will know more than anyone that he was just offside. Ok so he may not be prolific but in return he makes up for that in work rate and top class effort. I for one hope that he starts tomorrow night against a tired West Ham back line and I'm sure Ralph thinks the same

Edited 28 December, 2020 by davefizzy14

[eelpie]

On 26/12/2020 at 21:13, trousers said:

Ralph seemed fairly hopeful in today's post match interviews that Ings could be back in contention for this. I'm firmly in the not rushing him back camp though. Especially as temperature will be hovering around the freezing mark, one wouldn't have thought that was good conditions for someone with a borderline muscle/hamstring issue (?)

West Ham only have c.48 hours between games so here's hoping the extra day we get works to our advantage. With Liverpool on the horizon we really need a win here to preserve our top half status.

I'd go with:

McCarthy

KWP - Bednarek - Stephens - Bertrand

Romeu - JWP

Djenepo - Armstrong

Adams - Walcott

With Ings on the bench 

 

Agree. It has got to be too early to rush and risk Ings -oue most valuable asset- so soon, and when the ground is particularly hard.

[StrangelyBrown]

46 minutes ago, davefizzy14 said:

For all those who have been negative towards Shane, I personally thought that he grew into the game on Boxing Day. His first start of the season too, he was always going to be a bit rusty. Was a great finish for the disallowed goal, he will know more than anyone that he was just offside. Ok so he may not be prolific but in return he makes up for that in work rate and top class effort. I for one hope that he starts tomorrow night against a tired West Ham back line and I'm sure Ralph thinks the same

Sorry I can't agree with that. He was awful throughout. He might have taken his offside chance we'll, but he was offside FFS. He did very little to create a nuisance of himself, but did a spectacular job of making runs into the same areas as Che and being on a completely different wavelength to everyone else.

Shane has never been good enough for a regular starting spot for us and now he spends half his time jogging around looking useless he wouldn't be good enough for most championship teams.

[davefizzy14]

9 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

Sorry I can't agree with that. He was awful throughout. He might have taken his offside chance we'll, but he was offside FFS. He did very little to create a nuisance of himself, but did a spectacular job of making runs into the same areas as Che and being on a completely different wavelength to everyone else.

Shane has never been good enough for a regular starting spot for us and now he spends half his time jogging around looking useless he wouldn't be good enough for most championship teams.

Suppose its all about opinions here

[sad saints fan]

1 hour ago, davefizzy14 said:

For all those who have been negative towards Shane, I personally thought that he grew into the game on Boxing Day. His first start of the season too, he was always going to be a bit rusty. Was a great finish for the disallowed goal, he will know more than anyone that he was just offside. Ok so he may not be prolific but in return he makes up for that in work rate and top class effort. I for one hope that he starts tomorrow night against a tired West Ham back line and I'm sure Ralph thinks the same

I think Ralph has a bit of a quandary here . Shane has been a great asset to us for a long time but is starting to shows signs that the energy levels are not what they were. So does Ralph persist with him or is only blocking a pathway for others . Only Ralph can decide if Nlundulu,Obafemi or Tella have the ability to make the step and become third choice. 

[eelpie]

5 hours ago, for_heaven's_Saint said:

Assume there’s a press conference today at some point?

Is the match on telly (other than Sky)?

[eelpie]

38 minutes ago, sad saints fan said:

I think Ralph has a bit of a quandary here . Shane has been a great asset to us for a long time but is starting to shows signs that the energy levels are not what they were. So does Ralph persist with him or is only blocking a pathway for others . Only Ralph can decide if Nlundulu,Obafemi or Tella have the ability to make the step and become third choice. 

I would start with Shane, because of his experience and speed. But replace him at half time or around 60 minutes  (not 85minutes) if necessary.

[trousers]

15 minutes ago, eelpie said:

Is the match on telly (other than Sky)?

Amazon Prime exclusive

[OttawaSaint]

Shane Long was utter gash. He barely got near the ball and when he did he fell over trying to con the referee. He’s not EPL quality and shouldn’t be anywhere near our matchday squad. This “his effort level” excuse doesn’t cut it, he didn’t show any more effort than anyone else on the pitch. The only reason he got the nod is because Ralph doesn’t trust the young lads and for whatever reason Obafemi has regressed and is not in Ralph’s plans right now. 

Edited 28 December, 2020 by OttawaSaint

[Totton Saint]

40 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Shane Long was utter gash. He barely got near the ball and when he did he fell over trying to con the referee. He’s not EPL quality and shouldn’t be anywhere near our matchday squad. This “his effort level” excuse doesn’t cut it, he didn’t show any more effort than anyone else on the pitch. The only reason he got the nod is because Ralph doesn’t trust the young lads and for whatever reason Obafemi has regressed and is not in Ralph’s plans right now. 

How do you get the time to be posting on here most of the day

[Koolman]

Interesting statistic from the BBC....

 

Quote

West Ham have won the last five Premier League matches against West Ham.

[OttawaSaint]

31 minutes ago, Totton Saint said:

How do you get the time to be posting on here most of the day

I’m like the Shane Long of Saintsweb, I’m fast and put in a lot of effort...

[suewhistle]

.. and retired, or near it? 🙂

[Ex Lion Tamer]

2 hours ago, StrangelyBrown said:

Shane has never been good enough for a regular starting spot for us and now he spends half his time jogging around looking useless he wouldn't be good enough for most championship teams.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1240911/Southampton-news-Danny-Ings-Shane-Long-new-contract-Premier-League

[OttawaSaint]

9 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

.. and retired, or near it? 🙂

No. I’m only on holiday. I’m a teacher in what is the equivalent of sixth form here. It’s been an exhausting semester so I’m just relaxing and letting off a bit of steam. Apologies to the Shane Long fans, I’m sure he’s a nice man but I think he’d be better suited in the Championship. 

[OttawaSaint]

9 minutes ago, LeG said:

It seems like you don't like Shane Long?

I like him and appreciate what he’s done for us over the years. He wasn’t very good in the Fulham game (I guess “gash” was a little harsh, sorry Shane) but I think it highlights how badly we need replacements. I wonder what happened to Obafemi, he was the hero in our game just one year ago.

[Saint-Reece]

Ings back training from the pictures just posted on the official Twitter feed. 

[suewhistle]

20 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

In my opinion, which I am entitled to, he is trash, has always been trash, and will never be good enough to play week in week out in the premier league. If he does, that side will struggle.

"Trash"? That's a rather strong word, do you really mean it or just have a small vocabulary and look at everything in black and white?  Do you mean that everybody who doesn't play week in week out in the premier league is trash? Could you criticise a player without being so sweeping and uninformative? Which do you think are the weakest points of his game? Do you think he has any reasonable attributes to have played so many games in the top flight?

Nah, you go with "trash".

 

[suewhistle]

16 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

No. I’m only on holiday. I’m a teacher in what is the equivalent of sixth form here. It’s been an exhausting semester ..

I'll bet! Just about to give an online lesson, so laters..

[Matthew Le God]

Guess who's back, back again? Ingsy's back, tell a friend!

Edited 28 December, 2020 by Matthew Le God

[Toussaint]

34 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Guess who's back, back again...

Give up, who?

[JRM]

The Everton v Man City postponement tonight might impact West Ham's team selection tomorrow. They go to Everton on Friday who will now have had a weeks rest. Hopefully they save some of their better players for Goodison to give us a chance. West Ham will know they always beat us anyway so can be complacent. 

 

Ings on the bench for us will be a big bonus having a decent option to come on. 

[stevy777_x]

24 minutes ago, JRM said:

The Everton v Man City postponement tonight might impact West Ham's team selection tomorrow. They go to Everton on Friday who will now have had a weeks rest. Hopefully they save some of their better players for Goodison to give us a chance. West Ham will know they always beat us anyway so can be complacent. 

 

Ings on the bench for us will be a big bonus having a decent option to come on. 

If we start Long again tomorow, I ll have a fit.

The only way we can play with him is if we stick long balls for him to run into and as we all know we musn t play Hoof ball against West Ham.

would personally go for Walcott up front and djenepo on the left then switch in second half with Ings coming on.

[benjii]

Does anyone apart from me quite like the idea of Djenepo up front with Adams for this one? Means we can leave Walcott playing where he has been and Djenepo should be less likely to pick up a yellow card in the first half.