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Summer Transfer Window 2021


Dusic
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15 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I agree but cling to the fact that there a lot of smoke and mirrors at the moment. Remember when we were "backing away" from Armstrong?

Agreed. Ralph and the club are careful not to show their hand in the transfer market, even at club forums. Still think we're actively looking at more options and that could be ramped up if we get further funds for Obafemi and Vestergaard

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4 hours ago, CityRanger said:

I remember Gullit / Koeman / Hoddle playing those twin roles effectively in their career but obviously they’re players of the highest calibre. Not many about I’d guess.

LOL - Hoddle never played as a defender nor even as a defensive midfielder! Actually the player in his era who perhaps did have that level of flexibility was Saints captain Steve Williams, though sadly he went to Arsenal and his career pretty much bombed after that!

4 hours ago, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

Have we actually strengthened our squad or just bought in replacements who are of a lower quality?

We leaked goals last season, so surely the defence was the priority? Perraud replaces Bertrand. Upgrade or downgrade? Only time will tell.
We've got cover at RB which is good, but we need a CB and with Vestergaard seemingly on his way out, you could argue that we need 2 CB's.
We also need cover at LB and a defensive midfielder. 

I genuinely hope that Armstrong and Broja do the business for us, but as things stand, I can't help but feel that we've only gone sideways.

Personally, I still think we still need 3 players, unless we're going to find a CB who can play as a DM and a LB who can cover as a CB? In which case we might get away with 2. 
 

That is an interesting question and assertion. I actually think that even if we have only gone sideways in terms of first team quality, we have actually done far more than that in that we have strengthened our options/depth in reserve and for varying our formations and tactical set-up. With that in mind it is also worth remembering that in the first half of the season we were challenging at the top of the table with strong hopes of making a challenge for a Europa League place at least!

Of course, we all knew it was a false position, but if it weren't for our massive injury problems and lack of cover, who knows how much better we might have performed; and now that we find ourselves with a squad with greater flexibility and depth, who knows if maybe we can maintain a higher standard throughout the season? In addition, while last season COVID prevented the club from making full use of its conditioning facilities for treating injuries, etc., hopefully this season we will be able to make more use of these, benefitting the squad even more.

Nevertheless, I would love to see at least one addition to the squad and for me the priority is probably a centre back.

As far as left back is concerned Salisu, McQueen, Stephens, Diallo, Djenepo, Livramento and Valery can all provide cover there should Perraud get injured, though McQueen is still not listed on the Saints website, so I wonder if his six month contract is more about providing support for him while he rebuilds his fitness.

Edited by SaintJackoInHurworth
Ferry is on loan at Crawley so is not an option to cover left back!
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9 hours ago, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

Have we actually strengthened our squad or just bought in replacements who are of a lower quality?

We leaked goals last season, so surely the defence was the priority? Perraud replaces Bertrand. Upgrade or downgrade? Only time will tell.
We've got cover at RB which is good, but we need a CB and with Vestergaard seemingly on his way out, you could argue that we need 2 CB's.
We also need cover at LB and a defensive midfielder. 

I genuinely hope that Armstrong and Broja do the business for us, but as things stand, I can't help but feel that we've only gone sideways.

Personally, I still think we still need 3 players, unless we're going to find a CB who can play as a DM and a LB who can cover as a CB? In which case we might get away with 2. 

 

 

DId Bertie ever really commit to Ralphs ideologies?

Look at the metrics on Who Scored for him and KWP last year and you can see why the attacks were so imbalanced to the right hand side of the pitch.

With Perraud and Livramento as players who can run with the ball (and arguable Djenepo) we get more balance to our attacks.

Sofascore's ratings list Perraud higher than Bertie for Creativity, attacking and Technique. only a touch lower on Defensiveness.

 

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The thought of perraud being as attacking as KWP both excites and terrifies me. Our CBs can't cope with one on one situations. Exposing them further won't solve our defensive frailties. We may score a few more goals though. 

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5 hours ago, SaintJackoInHurworth said:

I actually think that even if we have only gone sideways in terms of first team quality, we have actually done far more than that in that we have strengthened our options/depth in reserve and for varying our formations and tactical set-up. 

A change of formation might be nice, but the 4222 seems here to stay. 

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4 minutes ago, Chez said:

A change of formation might be nice, but the 4222 seems here to stay. 

Ralph addressed that question in the forum yesterday, explains that the squad we have is set up for 4222, and that 5 at the back is not his preferred system because it is more defensive and slower in the build up (we all saw that with England this summer😴😴😴). He gave a comparison that Chelsea can do it because of the players they have. He also made the point that this does not mean we won't be flexible if needed.

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6 hours ago, SaintJackoInHurworth said:

LOL - Hoddle never played as a defender nor even as a defensive midfielder! Actually the player in his era who perhaps did have that level of flexibility was Saints captain Steve Williams, though sadly he went to Arsenal and his career pretty much bombed after that!

 

Hmmm. The ‘LOL’ is on you. I remember Hoddle playing as a sweeper for both Swindon and Chelsea.

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25 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

Ralph addressed that question in the forum yesterday, explains that the squad we have is set up for 4222, and that 5 at the back is not his preferred system because it is more defensive and slower in the build up (we all saw that with England this summer😴😴😴). He gave a comparison that Chelsea can do it because of the players they have. He also made the point that this does not mean we won't be flexible if needed.

I suppose this is a fair point, if you have players like Havertz or Pulisic etc. then you are naturally going to be very creative, but as our attackers are just not that level of quality and can less create something out of nothing we need basically extra bodies getting forward.

I agree with what someone above said, I am not sure our overall quality has improved (it might do with time players like Perraud might show more quality than Bertrand) but our depth and options to do something a bit different I think have improved and IMO that is more what we suffered with last year.

Injuries completely derailed the season and we didn't ever really recover from that. We now have a bit more depth in most positions which should help with the injuries but also help with freshening things up late in the game so hopefully we don't lose so many points from winning positions. 

But also I think with someone like Broja who seems a bit more physical in size, a pace and power combo, that gives us something a bit different to change a game.

Then if Salisu becomes a regular, which it looks like he will then we will have more pace in the centre-back area which I think was another area of weakness.

And then Perraud brings more pace and forward play in the left back area to add more threat on that side.

Overall as well it seems Perraud is quick, Tino is supposedly very quick, Broja is quick and Armstrong is quick, so we've added a lot more pace to the team which should help with counters and recoveries.

Personally I am still kind of hoping we sell Vestergaard for £15-20 million, then bring in someone like Nate Phillips on a loan to buy and then use the money for another midfielder as well, plus maybe a young left back similar to the tino deal.  Then I think we would have really good depth and options. 

Long term though I have felt for ages we have needed to try to find a proper playmaking no.10 type player.  Someone in the De Buryne sort of mould that pick those passes out because we always struggle to break down those deep sitting teams and most of our current players for those positions are pretty similar run with the ball type players. 

Edited by tajjuk
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25 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

Ralph addressed that question in the forum yesterday, explains that the squad we have is set up for 4222, and that 5 at the back is not his preferred system because it is more defensive and slower in the build up (we all saw that with England this summer😴😴😴). He gave a comparison that Chelsea can do it because of the players they have. He also made the point that this does not mean we won't be flexible if needed.

For balance you'd expect Romeu to drop and make a solid 3 at the back when attacking.

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19 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

For balance you'd expect Romeu to drop and make a solid 3 at the back when attacking.

Yep, but the CB's then split and cover the wide positions and as we saw last season, they get battered for pace out there. Bednarek in particular really struggled. 

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Really feel we should be looking for some sort of cover at left back, whether it's a loan or someone on the cheap - any free transfers about? 

The squad as a whole is looking stronger but we're only one bad injury to Perraud away from having Djenepo at left back for half the season. I really like him, but he is nowhere near adequate cover there. 

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27 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

Long term though I have felt for ages we have needed to try to find a proper playmaking no.10 type player.  Someone in the De Buryne sort of mould that pick those passes out because we always struggle to break down those deep sitting teams and most of our current players for those positions are pretty similar run with the ball type players. 

Should be easy enough then! Get it done saints!

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3 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Really feel we should be looking for some sort of cover at left back, whether it's a loan or someone on the cheap - any free transfers about? 

The squad as a whole is looking stronger but we're only one bad injury to Perraud away from having Djenepo at left back for half the season. I really like him, but he is nowhere near adequate cover there. 

We never really replaced tadic. They tried with boufal but it wasn't the same. 

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15 minutes ago, egg said:

Yep, but the CB's then split and cover the wide positions and as we saw last season, they get battered for pace out there. Bednarek in particular really struggled. 

Yeah, good point.  Salisu is clearly ideal for it though, if we could get a right sided version of him we'd be alright.  Still think an upgrade on Romeu would be a big plus.

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1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

We never really replaced tadic. They tried with boufal but it wasn't the same. 

I feel like Stu Armstrong is our midfield creative force now, just with a different style of play. 

 

A quick look at Transfermarkt shows there are a few potentially good options out of contract, including a 29 year old centreback I'd never heard of but who has played for Napoli for the last 5 years, Jetro Willems who whilst unspectacular at Newcastle would provide decent backup at left back and is only 27, and other decent possibilities like Mustafi, Mangala, Ntcham. 

 

Did chuckle to see that Gaston Ramirez is without a club still.

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1 hour ago, Chez said:

The thought of perraud being as attacking as KWP both excites and terrifies me. Our CBs can't cope with one on one situations. Exposing them further won't solve our defensive frailties. We may score a few more goals though. 

I very much doubt we'll see them both bombing forward at the same time. It'll be a case of if KWP goes forward then Perraud stays back, and vice versa.

I could be wrong, of course, because Ralph has surprised me many times in the past, but I really don't think he's that stupid.

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2 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I very much doubt we'll see them both bombing forward at the same time. It'll be a case of if KWP goes forward then Perraud stays back, and vice versa.

I could be wrong, of course, because Ralph has surprised me many times in the past, but I really don't think he's that stupid.

I assume if we bomb down the left for example, then Romeu drops and Salisu moves to cover the left, almost in a back 4?  image.png.d1b13367460d4d5d71ed6679b7b8b5e1.png

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The key to it is two things:

1. Picking when to go forward and timing the run well.

2. Recovery pace and the desire to run backwards.

Bertrand was very good at #1 but in the last couple of years less good at #2. Semmens basically said in the forum last night that physically he couldn't do what was needed anymore so they were happy for him to move on.

I feel KWP is good at both of these elements. He is extremely fit so can get up and down all game, but the timing (and stealth) of his runs is excellent, meaning he is often unmarked. He also has a good first touch to take down a long pass.

If Perraud can do these things in a similar way then great.

I am more concerned with a partnership of Salisu and Bednarek that they don't have the technical quality to find them like Vestergaard did on a regular basis.

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5 minutes ago, Dusic said:

The key to it is two things:

1. Picking when to go forward and timing the run well.

2. Recovery pace and the desire to run backwards.

Bertrand was very good at #1 but in the last couple of years less good at #2. Semmens basically said in the forum last night that physically he couldn't do what was needed anymore so they were happy for him to move on.

I feel KWP is good at both of these elements. He is extremely fit so can get up and down all game, but the timing (and stealth) of his runs is excellent, meaning he is often unmarked. He also has a good first touch to take down a long pass.

If Perraud can do these things in a similar way then great.

I am more concerned with a partnership of Salisu and Bednarek that they don't have the technical quality to find them like Vestergaard did on a regular basis.

You would imagine they expect Salisu to step up this season with vestergaard gone and it will be interesting to see how he gets on. 

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20 minutes ago, sambosa75 said:

We should probably pick up two "De Bruyne" types...  y'know... just in case one of them gets injured.  #announcedebruyne

Can't understand how we let Grealish and Sancho slip through our fingers, sack the board.

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1 hour ago, Maya's Dad said:

Should be easy enough then! Get it done saints!

Obviously not in quality but in style, I mean it's not like these players just appear, they develop as young players. De Bruyne was signed from Genk for £7 million. Sporting signed Bruno Fernandes for 8.5 million Euros. Norwich picked up Maddison from Coventry for less than £3 million. 

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15 hours ago, revolution saint said:

I know people have talked about Livramento being able to play on the left but I'd like another left back in before anything else.  The idea of relying on someone out of position if anything happens to Perraud doesn't fill me with confidence and we still don't know what Perraud will be like with any great certainty either.  If we can do that then it's a reasonably decent squad that should be able to handle injuries to an extent.

I hear ya. But I think we might conclude that Stephens (or, in extremis, JWP)  is cover for right back and Salisu (or even Djenepo) for left back. Not ideal, for sure, but it does mean there's some sort of 3rd/4th choice cover if Perraud/KWP get injured. Livramento is presumably first back up.

Assuming Vetegard is off, I think we need a straightforward centre-back. Or perhaps someone who can play centre-back and defensive midfield as cover. Do such players really exist anymore? (am thinking a sort of Jack Cork utility player)

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3 hours ago, MarkSFC said:

Ralph addressed that question in the forum yesterday, explains that the squad we have is set up for 4222, and that 5 at the back is not his preferred system because it is more defensive and slower in the build up (we all saw that with England this summer😴😴😴). He gave a comparison that Chelsea can do it because of the players they have. He also made the point that this does not mean we won't be flexible if needed.

A look at our goals conceded column may show that a more defensive formation or at least attitude may be beneficial. Ralph is a bit gung-ho, hence why we roll over so easily in games. Plus we have low quality keepers. Still, we will score a lot of goals hopefully...

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Just now, DT said:

A look at our goals conceded column may show that a more defensive formation or at least attitude may be beneficial. Ralph is a bit gung-ho, hence why we roll over so easily in games. Plus we have low quality keepers. Still, we will score a lot of goals hopefully...

Be careful what you wish for. When Puel went for a more defensive set up due to our crap keeper and two crap centre backs he was hounded out of the club.

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The one thing Ralph said in the forum that concerned me was this Djenepo at left back business. Surely he cant be serious, he kind of dismissed the Salisu option when Blackmore mentioned it as well. Hopefully there is something up their sleeves to cover that spot. Its not fair on Djenepo....or us.....making him fill in there.

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7 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Be careful what you wish for. When Puel went for a more defensive set up due to our crap keeper and two crap centre backs he was hounded out of the club.

I just think, while it's commendable that we have plugged some holes going forward, it's pretty dumb not to have replaced McCarthy with his calamitous distribution and dubious command of the area, and haven't (yet) sorted the spine in terms of a muscular, break-up play midfielder and commanding centre back. Call me old fashioned.

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Just now, beatlesaint said:

The one thing Ralph said in the forum that concerned me was this Djenepo at left back business. Surely he cant be serious, he kind of dismissed the Salisu option when Blackmore mentioned it as well. Hopefully there is something up their sleeves to cover that spot. Its not fair on Djenepo....or us.....making him fill in there.

I thought that. Scary.

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2 minutes ago, DT said:

I just think, while it's commendable that we have plugged some holes going forward, it's pretty dumb not to have replaced McCarthy with his calamitous distribution and dubious command of the area, and haven't (yet) sorted the spine in terms of a muscular, break-up play midfielder and commanding centre back. Call me old fashioned.

Comes down to money. when we've got two keepers earning c£130k a week between them they're not going to bring a new one in. Neither are any good but we stuck with them.

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2 hours ago, charliemiller said:

For me the ideal player would be Delaney

 

Have you seen him play much or are you going on his Euros? I have, probably over 50 times IRL. He's decent, had a good Euros but he wouldn't get in our current side (or shouldn't if we want to push on, I should say). He is, in my opinion, a poor man's Schneiderlin and he's never going to develop beyond what he is today so decent, yeah he'd do a job, but ideal is pushing it a bit. I think Diallo will prove that we don't need to be spending cash on players like Delaney.

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4 hours ago, Saint Mikey said:

Hmmm. The ‘LOL’ is on you. I remember Hoddle playing as a sweeper for both Swindon and Chelsea.

Mate, don't take it personally - I wasn't laughing at you, so no need for being aggressive! My LOL was simply at the thought of Hoddle being the lynchpin battling defensive midfielder in any side.

Nevertheless, I will concede that he did probably play himself in a deeper midfield position a few times at the end of his career when he was player manager at Chelsea and Swindon and on a few occasions that may even have been as a sweeper (though not as a traditional central defender). He was hardly there in the Romeu-type role though. In those days the role as it was implemented in many clubs was more about playing within a diamond formation; as such he acted more as a link player between defence and attack, making keys passes.

Also, Hoddle was the manager so was able to select himself to play that role. Whether anyone else would have selected him to play that role is perhaps questionable. :)

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So the message from the fans forum was that we're done with transfers now? If so, a pretty decent window.

Gut feels says we'll see more movement though. Presumably a late window 'wasn't available before' type, like Minamino was. Plus a Vesty replacement - surely he's going to move on.

So I'm optimistically predicting 2 more signings.

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42 minutes ago, grezz said:

Have you seen him play much or are you going on his Euros? I have, probably over 50 times IRL. He's decent, had a good Euros but he wouldn't get in our current side (or shouldn't if we want to push on, I should say). He is, in my opinion, a poor man's Schneiderlin and he's never going to develop beyond what he is today so decent, yeah he'd do a job, but ideal is pushing it a bit. I think Diallo will prove that we don't need to be spending cash on players like Delaney.

I think he'd be a very solid addition to the squad. Bags of experience and covers an area we are reasonably light in. 

For a team who are likely to finish bottom half he's a perfect addition for a few years. We will be looking to push on but this season is likely to be another one of consolidation in the league while we carry on slowly sorting the squad out. 

I don't think he'll join though, we just don't have the cash unless someone else leaves.

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4 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Personally, I hope the club are still looking at the loan market for any potential incomings. With two domestic slots available it would be a shame not too use them. However, could also see us keeping one back as a possibility for the January window.

One has already been used on Broja.

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4 hours ago, tajjuk said:

Long term though I have felt for ages we have needed to try to find a proper playmaking no.10 type player.  Someone in the De Buryne sort of mould that pick those passes out because we always struggle to break down those deep sitting teams and most of our current players for those positions are pretty similar run with the ball type players. 

Unlike man city, we play with two strikers so there isn't really room for a classic playmaker. Creativity needs to come from the wings or the second striker - Adams is actually pretty good at picking a pass although not exactly a de bruyne type

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3 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

They never said anything like "thats it, we are done now"

I think there may be one or even two more to come  

We have a bit of history of last minute signings - Mane and Toby being the standout examples.

Toby was signed after quite a lot of noise around "we are not in the market for a centre back" at the time. 

Ralph I'm sure has talked about adding a number 6 (which means defensive midfielder these days, granddad). So my hope for a "Mane moment" this summer is someone to give us a bit more depth there. 

The fans forum did not say we were definitely finished.

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5 hours ago, MarkSFC said:

Ralph addressed that question in the forum yesterday, explains that the squad we have is set up for 4222, and that 5 at the back is not his preferred system because it is more defensive and slower in the build up (we all saw that with England this summer😴😴😴). He gave a comparison that Chelsea can do it because of the players they have. He also made the point that this does not mean we won't be flexible if needed.

Considering we lost a shed load of games playing 4222 in the second half of last season, maybe the squad is not set up for that formation? If we continue to lose games and the formation is not changed, then questions will need to be asked.

While I am at it, if we fail to sign a covering (genuine) left back, more questions need to be asked  seeing as our lack of cover at fullback (right side especially) killed us last season and lessons should be learned.

 

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2 minutes ago, Chez said:

Considering we lost a shed load of games playing 4222 in the second half of last season, maybe the squad is not set up for that formation? If we continue to lose games and the formation is not changed, then questions will need to be asked.

While I am at it, if we fail to sign a covering (genuine) left back, more questions need to be asked  seeing as our lack of cover at fullback (right side especially) killed us last season and lessons should be learned.

 

I think the challenge with Hussenhuttle-ball, is that it's so intense, intricate and attacking that it relies on high levels of confidence across the team to pull it off.  When it works, we're brilliant, as we were during 2020, when it doesn't and heads drop it's catastrophic.  I've no problem with continuing to play like that, but there has to be a plan B to reverse fortunes when things aren't going well.

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4 minutes ago, Chez said:

Considering we lost a shed load of games playing 4222 in the second half of last season, maybe the squad is not set up for that formation? If we continue to lose games and the formation is not changed, then questions will need to be asked.

While I am at it, if we fail to sign a covering (genuine) left back, more questions need to be asked  seeing as our lack of cover at fullback (right side especially) killed us last season and lessons should be learned.

 

But we won a shed load of games before that playing the formation. So is it not more likely the injuries/compressed schedule were behind that not the unsuitability of the players to the formation.

We've brought in cover at fullback. We're told that Livramento can play there. While that & the notion of perhaps someone being brought into u23 setup might not be perfect it is considerably better than last year.

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