Saints 1-1 Man Utd - Match Thread

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Shroppie said:

Really? For the first, Salisu was to blame, pulling out of a header. Yes, maybe McCarthy could have called, but once Salisu looked like heading it then ducked, no chance.

Yes, for the third he got to it but didn't keep it out. I doubt whether Forster would have done better.

Absolutely no keeper saves their second. Hit hard and in the corner like a rocket.

First one he has to take control of that situation, he sees the ball coming in over Salisu he has to claim that. How does it get down to Richarlisons foot in the 6 yard box, why is it not taken in the air. A top keeper comes for that ball, clatters anything in his path, and claims it around or above head height. It shouldn't be allowed to drop to foot height with him rooted to his line.

The second hits the post and goes in because he gets a finger to it but not enough but it is a good height imo, and it's his near post when the shot is coming in from an angle, you have to have that covered.

The third on paper was hard as it was a free header straight in front of him but it was straight at him and hit his hand and then his leg, neither kept it out though. If he'd saved it people would have called it a good save but it was a 50/50 for me and he never seems to be on the right end of those.

[Shroppie]

11 minutes ago, TWar said:

sees the ball coming in over Salisu he has to claim that

Wrong. He started to come to collect, saw Salisu was going to head it, pulled back. Then Salisu ducked.

[TWar]

14 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

Wrong. He started to come to collect, saw Salisu was going to head it, pulled back. Then Salisu ducked.

Not how I saw it at all, it was high over Salisu's head when it passed him, he definitely didn't "duck" as you can see above. He didn't backtrack into his own 6 yard box as he thought the keeper would come and maybe should have, but there is no way in hell he ducked. Below is another angle with the ball circled, it is way over Salisu's head, no ducking at all. And look at McCarthy's body position in the below one, he is retreating to his line, not coming to claim it at all!

 

Edited 16 August, 2021 by TWar

[Teddeer]

2 hours ago, SambaMaverick said:

Leave out as many youngsters / newcomers as possible, it could be five or six (or worse 😈).

My team:

McCarthy

KWP, Bednarek, Stephens, Perraud

Romeu, JWP

Armstrong, Redmond

Adams, Armstrong

Didn't know you posted on here Ralph.

[cloggy saint]

There is no way in hell McCarthy, or any other keeper could have claimed that ball, to say otherwise is ludicrous. 

[Minsk]

5 hours ago, TWar said:

Forster

KWP Bednarek Salisu

Livramento Romeu JWP Perraud

A. Armstrong Adams Djenepo

tight 343 with KWP as RCB, quick counter attacking inside forwards who are good against the ball and Adams who holds the ball up well to give us an out ball. Absolutely park the bus all game and try to nick something on the break or from a set piece.

I was thinking something similar, but maybe even more defensive. Also, not sure about KWP as RCB.

From the squad we currently have, I would go with:

                      Forster

   Stephens  Bednarek  Salisu

KWP                                       Perraud

                      Romeu

        JWP                  S Armstrong

                      Adams

                A. Armstrong

Basically, 3 CBs, 3 CMs (with Romeu sitting deep - JWP and SA linking/covering the wingbacks), KWP and RP wingbacks (wouldn't mind Tino instead of KWP), Che holding linking, and AA to shoot on sight.

I would also be going all out to sign Romero and Caleta-Car by Thursday, so they could start vice Forster and Bednarek (I was going to say Stephens, but I think he is a better option as a RCB - given he can play RB better than Bedders - and would prefer C-C as the central CB).

Anyway, it's just a pipe-dream. We all know it's going to be 4222, with McCarthy in goal. So the best I can hope for is: McCarthy, KWP. Bednarek, Salisu, Perraud, JWP, Romeu, S Armstrong, Redmond, Adams, A Armstrong   

Didn't really want to put Redmond in there but feel he tracks back better than Tella and can't be any worse that Djnepo and Walcott were on Saturday. Again, wouldn't be averse to Tino vice KWP, but maybe best to save him from this one.

Hey-ho, better make sure the alcohol cupboard and fridge are topped up before Sunday...............................

[Teddeer]

28 minutes ago, TWar said:

Not how I saw it at all, it was high over Salisu's head when it passed him, he definitely didn't "duck" as you can see above. He didn't backtrack into his own 6 yard box as he thought the keeper would come and maybe should have, but there is no way in hell he ducked. Below is another angle with the ball circled, it is way over Salisu's head, no ducking at all. And look at McCarthy's body position in the below one, he is retreating to his line, not coming to claim it at all!

 

Agree. The ball has already travelled some distance in the air in a looping motion yet McCarthy made only a half hearted advance then retreated. He should have set himself, bellowed 'Keeper's' and hurtled off his line as soon as the ball began its journey and, had he done so, he would have controlled the situation. To blame Salisu is extremely harsh.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Teddeer said:

Agree. The ball has already travelled some distance in the air in a looping motion yet McCarthy made only a half hearted advance then retreated. He should have set himself, bellowed 'Keeper's' and hurtled off his line as soon as the ball began its journey and, had he done so, he would have controlled the situation. To blame Salisu is extremely harsh.

Agreed, maybe I'm being too old school about things but two clear rules for me: 

1) For the first goal a keepers 6 yard box is theirs to control, if a ball loops into it from height you better believe they should claim that.

2) For the second, you don't get beaten at your near post (unless they are like 3 yards away from you), simple as that.

These things should be goalkeeping 101 for me. The third, if the ball comes right at you then you shouldn't let it go through you, less cut and dry as the others but still something I don't think Macca was blameless for.

[TWar]

11 minutes ago, cloggy saint said:

There is no way in hell McCarthy, or any other keeper could have claimed that ball, to say otherwise is ludicrous. 

No way any keeper would claim a ball dropping from height into their own 6 yard box? Are you sure about that?

[cloggy saint]

4 minutes ago, TWar said:

No way any keeper would claim a ball dropping from height into their own 6 yard box? Are you sure about that?

Yep, I won't claim to be any kind of football expert but I do know goalkeeping.

[Teddeer]

1 hour ago, cloggy saint said:

Yep, I won't claim to be any kind of football expert but I do know goalkeeping.

Just watched the replay of the first Everton goal and the final slow mo where Merrington is talking is pretty compelling. McCarthy takes two steps forward and two steps back. Had he been decisive instead and thrown himself forward in a positive manner he would have had a) a good chance of claiming or punching the ball or b) an excellent opportunity to block the shot or c) a good chance to distract Richarlson, get in his eyeline and make the finish far more difficult. It is just basics. The ball is in the air for a couple of seconds and he needs to travel 5-6 yards to make it his. 

[Alanh]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

Agreed, maybe I'm being too old school about things but two clear rules for me: 

1) For the first goal a keepers 6 yard box is theirs to control, if a ball loops into it from height you better believe they should claim that.

2) For the second, you don't get beaten at your near post (unless they are like 3 yards away from you), simple as that.

These things should be goalkeeping 101 for me. The third, if the ball comes right at you then you shouldn't let it go through you, less cut and dry as the others but still something I don't think Macca was blameless for.

IMO the first goal was a straightforward mix up between AM and MS.  There might have been a call or they might both have been silent and left it to each other.  I'm apportioning 50/50 blame for that one.

The second goal is pretty much unstoppable.  It's hit hard and right in the top corner.  AM does well to get a fingertip on it if he did.

The third is point blank AM has no time to react.  It's a 50/50 chance for a save for a keeper of AM's quality.  A better keeper does better but we don't have one of those.  A better defence of the cross or more commanding play by Stephens is the only way to reduce the odds and neither happened.

[Teddeer]

3rd goal Stephens looks as though he is out on a Sunday afternoon stroll. He has no awareness of where Calvert-Lewin is, he makes no effort to turn his head and check and instead just jogs back into the box as though there is not a hint of danger. We cannot accept our centre backs behaving like this. Ralph and the coaches must not tolerate this slapdash attitude.

[LiberalCommunist]

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is madness. Do yourself a favour Ralph, before this opportunity slips you by.......

[Sarnia Cherie]

5 hours ago, John Boy Saint said:

You can bet your bottom dollar Mr Deans ball will have been pre warmed prior to going in the hat to pulled out for a marquee game such as this. Sunday afternoon live on the tellybox, and the TV execs dream of seeing us battered, where else would he wish to be to help things along but in the middle of St Marys pitch, with pocket full of brand new cards and a shiny whistle in his gob 🤪

I have just seen that Craig Pawson is down for us. Like you I felt this game had Mike Dean written all over it. He isn't on VAR for us either. And breathe.

[Billy the Kidd]

15 hours ago, TWar said:

Not how I saw it at all, it was high over Salisu's head when it passed him, he definitely didn't "duck" as you can see above. He didn't backtrack into his own 6 yard box as he thought the keeper would come and maybe should have, but there is no way in hell he ducked. Below is another angle with the ball circled, it is way over Salisu's head, no ducking at all. And look at McCarthy's body position in the below one, he is retreating to his line, not coming to claim it at all!

 

Exactly how I saw this, also to add it’s not like the ball was fired in leaving no time for McCarthy to come, it was a slow stopping header back in from outside the box, he had a perfect view and plenty of time to claim that. 
 

Salisu maybe could have tracked back, but pretty sure he would have expected the keeper to be rushing out to pluck it out of mid air. 
 

For me, this one is on the keeper.  Most Sunday league keepers would be claiming that. 

Edited 17 August, 2021 by Billy the Kidd

[Ed Rooney]

14 hours ago, Alanh said:

IMO the first goal was a straightforward mix up between AM and MS.  There might have been a call or they might both have been silent and left it to each other.  I'm apportioning 50/50 blame for that one.

The second goal is pretty much unstoppable.  It's hit hard and right in the top corner.  AM does well to get a fingertip on it if he did.

The third is point blank AM has no time to react.  It's a 50/50 chance for a save for a keeper of AM's quality.  A better keeper does better but we don't have one of those.  A better defence of the cross or more commanding play by Stephens is the only way to reduce the odds and neither happened.

Agree on 1st 50/50 as one of them should have taken control of the situation, must have been no communication. 
 

2nd we didn’t react to quick free kick and ward prowse was ball watching instead of tracking the run, when he did react it was too late.

3rd Awful frol Stephens, DCL was in his eye line but he jogged back and had absolutely no interest in getting to the cross first. Absolutely no desire or passion and tbh was the goal that pissed me off the most 

[Maya's Dad]

14 hours ago, Alanh said:

IMO the first goal was a straightforward mix up between AM and MS.  There might have been a call or they might both have been silent and left it to each other.  I'm apportioning 50/50 blame for that one.

The second goal is pretty much unstoppable.  It's hit hard and right in the top corner.  AM does well to get a fingertip on it if he did.

The third is point blank AM has no time to react.  It's a 50/50 chance for a save for a keeper of AM's quality.  A better keeper does better but we don't have one of those.  A better defence of the cross or more commanding play by Stephens is the only way to reduce the odds and neither happened.

this is it. 

first- both their faults for sure. as a defender there should be no way you can be letting that drop if there was no call which i 100% belive AM did not give as he is pretty helpless in those situations. to his credit he did claim or punch a few balls throughout the game

second and third- pretty hard to put it all on him for these imo. its exactly as alanh says. a good keeper makes those saves but we know AM isnt one

would still rather forster starts every game

[tajjuk]

Yeh looked like a GK error to me, Salisu could have done more maybe to get in but we also don't know what calls were made. 

2nd is a great hit, can't fault him there. 

3rd is straight at him, and he probably should have done better.

Only thing I will say is, is Forster coming to claim that first one? Not sure, I feel they are both bad at this, but maybe the communication would have been better as this seems to be something he is stronger at.

And for me, he is more likely to save the 3rd, those are the sort of saves he makes regularly due to his bulk. 

McCarthy has not looked anywhere near his best (which is hardly amazing) for a long while, consistently his main strength is shot stopping, most of the rest of his GK game, so kicking, positioning, communication, coming for crosses etc. has never been very good, but when he is on form he can pull of some excellent stops. But he hasn't done that for a while. 

If McCarthy isn't making saves then he is close to useless because he is a poor communicator, his distribution sucks and he is not great at commanding the area. 

[whiteleySaint30]

2 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

Yeh looked like a GK error to me, Salisu could have done more maybe to get in but we also don't know what calls were made. 

2nd is a great hit, can't fault him there. 

3rd is straight at him, and he probably should have done better.

Only thing I will say is, is Forster coming to claim that first one? Not sure, I feel they are both bad at this, but maybe the communication would have been better as this seems to be something he is stronger at.

And for me, he is more likely to save the 3rd, those are the sort of saves he makes regularly due to his bulk. 

McCarthy has not looked anywhere near his best (which is hardly amazing) for a long while, consistently his main strength is shot stopping, most of the rest of his GK game, so kicking, positioning, communication, coming for crosses etc. has never been very good, but when he is on form he can pull of some excellent stops. But he hasn't done that for a while. 

If McCarthy isn't making saves then he is close to useless because he is a poor communicator, his distribution sucks and he is not great at commanding the area. 

All this debate who was at fault for the goals on Saturday is irrelevant. What is relevant is that Mcarthy is simply not up to it and is not a premiership standard goalkeeper. Forster is slightly better but not much. If we don't sign a keeper the fact is we will have a pair of goalkeepers who will make mistakes as the season continues..............

[TWar]

4 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

Yeh looked like a GK error to me, Salisu could have done more maybe to get in but we also don't know what calls were made. 

2nd is a great hit, can't fault him there. 

3rd is straight at him, and he probably should have done better.

Only thing I will say is, is Forster coming to claim that first one? Not sure, I feel they are both bad at this, but maybe the communication would have been better as this seems to be something he is stronger at.

And for me, he is more likely to save the 3rd, those are the sort of saves he makes regularly due to his bulk. 

McCarthy has not looked anywhere near his best (which is hardly amazing) for a long while, consistently his main strength is shot stopping, most of the rest of his GK game, so kicking, positioning, communication, coming for crosses etc. has never been very good, but when he is on form he can pull of some excellent stops. But he hasn't done that for a while. 

If McCarthy isn't making saves then he is close to useless because he is a poor communicator, his distribution sucks and he is not great at commanding the area. 

Yeah for the record I think Forster maybe does better with the second as he's taller and his positioning is a bit better but maybe not and that's about it. Doubt he claims the first as his cross claiming is awful and the ball went through Macca for the third but we see that happen with Forster all the time too.

[Maya's Dad]

i feel that RH is only starting AM due to his slightly better passing and is better with the ball at his feet than forster. problem is forster is not entirely helpless at this as seen last season plus he can actually make some saves that make us go yeh good save

Edited 17 August, 2021 by Maya's Dad

[redder freak]

I hope Saints are practising playing with 10 men. Quite possible against United.

[steveo]

To me it has been obvious for at least the last 3 seasons that our keepers were not upto standard. Nothing has been done about it. We have been poor defensively during this period partly because of a lack in confidence in the chosen sub standard keeper and partly because some of our defenders have also been sub standard. Again very little done about that.  We have now arrived at a point where we start a game with Mccarthy and Stephens in as first choices, seriously is anybody surprised that we concede 3 goals? Unless there is a total rethink in team selection then I agree with some of the previous posters, we could be in for a record defeat, but are the ones to come in actually any better than the ones to be replaced........Stephens - Bednarak, Mccarthy - Forster and you can go on and on, we are left with sub standard players and there is only one way this season is going to pan out.

[Nordic Saint]

3 hours ago, redder freak said:

I hope Saints are practising playing with 10 men. Quite possible against United.

We already have, on multiple occasions, with McCarthy in goal. Possibly even 9 when Walcott's in the lineup.

As long as it has a firm base, it might be worth trying a cardboard cutout instead of McCarthy as it least it wouldn't be able to retreat into the goal and so might stop a few shots. As for Walcott, maybe they could have a lottery before the game to pick some random person from the crowd to take his place or perhaps have another cardboard cutout on wheels that one of the other players could tow behind him. It wouldn't contribute any less.

Edited 17 August, 2021 by Nordic Saint

[Saint_clark]

20 hours ago, cloggy saint said:

There is no way in hell McCarthy, or any other keeper could have claimed that ball, to say otherwise is ludicrous. 

Maybe not caught it but if he'd sprinted out to the ball he'd have been right in front of richarlison when he shot, making it impossible to score. 

In an age where every keeper is rushing off their line and command of the box is key how are we stuck with two that refuse to even come for balls dropping within their 6 yard area. 

[Nordic Saint]

16 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Maybe not caught it but if he'd sprinted out to the ball he'd have been right in front of richarlison when he shot, making it impossible to score. 

In an age where every keeper is rushing off their line and command of the box is key how are we stuck with two that refuse to even come for balls dropping within their 6 yard area. 

Anyway, all he had to do was put his arms up to stop the shot, the same as any other Premier League goalkeeper would have done. It was just above his head and it was a toe poke, which wasn't struck particularly hard. One of McCarthy's problems is that his reflexes are far too slow. 

Look at the view from the camera behind the goal. He had time to put his arms up but you could see he was still thinking about whether to head the ball or not as he leant backwards. He always leans backwards when there are shots from close range. I think he's afraid of the ball hitting his face. Whereas other goalkeepers stand up straight and raise their arms to make themselves big and stop the shot, McCarthy makes himself small to make sure the ball doesn't hit him. Either that or he's practising his limbo dancing.

Edited 17 August, 2021 by Nordic Saint

[cloggy saint]

31 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

Anyway, all he had to do was put his arms up to stop the shot, the same as any other Premier League goalkeeper would have done. It was just above his head and it was a toe poke, which wasn't struck particularly hard. One of McCarthy's problems is that his reflexes are far too slow. 

Look at the view from the camera behind the goal. He had time to put his arms up but you could see he was still thinking about whether to head the ball or not as he leant backwards. He always leans backwards when there are shots from close range. I think he's afraid of the ball hitting his face. Whereas other goalkeepers stand up straight and raise their arms to make themselves big and stop the shot, McCarthy makes himself small to make sure the ball doesn't hit him. Either that or he's practising his limbo dancing.

Absolute nonsense from beginning to end!

[Maury Dyer]

Ralph said he wants a top ten finish: I think we will be lucky to finish in the bottom three..........and this match is the second one of a very long season.

[Shroppie]

5 hours ago, Maya's Dad said:

i feel that RH is only starting AM due to his slightly better passing and is better with the ball at his feet than forster. problem is forster is not entirely helpless at this as seen last season plus he can actually make some saves that make us go yeh good save

You've obviously and conveniently forgotten the saves McCarthy made. They were significant. And he claims more crosses in a game than Forster does in a season.

[DT]

1 hour ago, Shroppie said:

You've obviously and conveniently forgotten the saves McCarthy made. They were significant. And he claims more crosses in a game than Forster does in a season.

Forster transmits way more confidence and his coming off the line has improved. McCarthy is a liability. Get Sergio Romero in. Ignoring him is mystifying.

[The Curse of St Mary's]

I see utd played a strong team in a behind doors friendly v Burnley today which they won 3-1.  Reassuring to know they are going to be even sharper for when they play us GULP 

 

[TWar]

2 hours ago, Maury Dyer said:

Ralph said he wants a top ten finish: I think we will be lucky to finish in the bottom three..........and this match is the second one of a very long season.

How can you be lucky to finish in the bottom 3? That's the worst that can happen, what else do you expect? For the club to disband?

[Nordic Saint]

3 hours ago, Shroppie said:

You've obviously and conveniently forgotten the saves McCarthy made. They were significant. And he claims more crosses in a game than Forster does in a season.

You seem totally oblivious to reality. It's almost as if you've never seen him play:

"Weak shotstopper. Faces many savable shots"

 

EtzmxSOWYAAN3hJ (750×798) (twimg.com)

 

 

 

 

Edited 17 August, 2021 by Nordic Saint

[hackedoff]

The club has decided against leaving a free flag on each seat as an opening day gesture. Everyone will instead receive a complementary abacus.

[waylander]

Not looking forward to this one. I have Man U supporting family coming for lunch then watching the game.

[nta786]

9 minutes ago, hackedoff said:

The club has decided against leaving a free flag on each seat as an opening day gesture. Everyone will instead receive a complementary abacus.

We're struggling to sell seats there isn't many people to give a complimentary gesture to!!!

Although, I remember a few at Swansea away back in 2018 nicking the free scarves being given out that perhaps for these people they can have an extra flag (or abacus) for their troubles. 

[CampionSaint]

On 15/08/2021 at 10:00, Baird of the land said:

McCarthy, kwp, bednarek, salisu, perraud, Romeu, jwp, Livramento, Armstrong, Armstrong, Adams.

Agree with this outfield but would still have Forster over McCarthy.

[qwertyell]

10 hours ago, redder freak said:

I hope Saints are practising playing with 10 men. Quite possible against United.

Is Walcott starting again?

[Streaky]

If we can't sell out against man u then maybe Pompey do have better fans than us.

[Matthew Le God]

31 minutes ago, Streaky said:

If we can't sell out against man u then maybe Pompey do have better fans than us.

Pompey's tickets are no where near as expensive as ours. Some of them for Sunday's game are £89!

Pompey were failing to sell out in a much smaller stadium when they were last on the Premier League. Some games had 4k empty seats in a 20k stadium.

Edited 17 August, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Streaky]

25 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Pompey's tickets are no where near as expensive as ours. Some of them for Sunday's game are £89!

Pompey were failing to sell out in a much smaller stadium when they were last on the Premier League. Some games had 4k empty seats in a 20k stadium.

I was being sarcastic, although I probably should have stated that. But seriously maybe semmens and Co will be looking at this. Its not just premium section that we are struggling to sell its all around the stadium. 

I wonder how the likes of Watford and Burnley at home will sell. Probably a sign of the times, we seem to be on a downward trajectory these days.

[Saint Garrett]

21 minutes ago, Streaky said:

I was being sarcastic, although I probably should have stated that. But seriously maybe semmens and Co will be looking at this. Its not just premium section that we are struggling to sell its all around the stadium. 

I wonder how the likes of Watford and Burnley at home will sell. Probably a sign of the times, we seem to be on a downward trajectory these days.

People have lost jobs, lost income, lost businesses etc, it’s a disgrace that they stuck the prices up. It never works with Saints. It’s happened quite a few times they’ve tried to increase the ticket prices, and all that happens is you get a load of empty seats in the ground. I get they have to try and increase income but putting the prices up for the odd game, can’t have much of an impact. 

[Shroppie]

5 hours ago, Nordic Saint said:

It's almost as if you've never seen him play:

I wouldn't mind betting that I've seen him live more than you have. Virtually every game where fans were allowed since he started with us.

[Simon3737]

I’d go dull, solid and hardworking for this one…

                   Forster

KWP Bednarek Salisu Perraud

             Romeu Diallo

         JWP S.Armstrong

       Adams A.Armstrong

[Maya's Dad]

15 hours ago, Shroppie said:

You've obviously and conveniently forgotten the saves McCarthy made. They were significant. And he claims more crosses in a game than Forster does in a season.

the saves McCarthy makes are the ones you expect any keeper at this level to make. he rarely makes any that surprises you or catches the eye. this has been the case since he had that one good season.

agree with you about the crosses though. so basically they both are pretty shite but right now i would give the nod to FF

[benjii]

Pretty obvious that we should pack the defence and midfield, play cautiously, and try to do them on the break.

So no doubt we'll go gung-ho "4222", surrender the midfield in the second half and get twonked.

If I was the boss, I would pick 352 (or "32212" if you want to be ein ubernonscze):

Forster

Stephens  Bednarek Salisu

KWP   Perraud 

Romeu  JWP

Stuey

Adams Adam Armstrong 

 

[Saint Fan CaM]

Just play the best players available. Timo in front of KWP could make a big difference IMO. Oh and don’t piss about at the back trying to pass it out from Forster!

                   Forster

KWP Bednarek Salisu Perraud

             JWP Romeu

         Timo S.Armstrong

       Adams A.Armstrong

[Matthew Le God]

Just now, Saint Fan CaM said:

Timo in front of KWP could make a big difference IMO.
                   Forster

KWP Bednarek Salisu Perraud

             JWP Romeu

         Timo S.Armstrong

       Adams A.Armstrong

His name is Valentino Livramento or Tino Livramento for short.

[Uncle Albert]

8 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

His name is Valentino Livramento or Tino Livramento for short.

Give it a break🙄