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Saints 1-1 Man Utd - Match Thread


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I know we are only one game in but I really do fear for us this season, think maybe our luck of just about scraping by will run out. We have the same lack of mental strength as last season (why have we not erased this or at least improved), haven't sorted out our defence or keeper problems, sold our best and most consistent goal scorer, sold an experienced lump of a defender without an immediate replacement lined up, and our new signings will take some time to adapt to this league and how Ralph insists on playing.  We don't have that one star player on our team sheet anymore that can make things happen! (Obviously AA has the potential to be but to early to say) 

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21 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Maybe not caught it but if he'd sprinted out to the ball he'd have been right in front of richarlison when he shot, making it impossible to score. 

In an age where every keeper is rushing off their line and command of the box is key how are we stuck with two that refuse to even come for balls dropping within their 6 yard area. 

Thought Id get stuck into this argument as well. Its seems on here its just a matter of opinion. I played cb for years to a good level. Personally speaking, I wouldve been hugely pissed off with myself for stopping and letting the ball drop there and I wouldnt have expected my keeper to come for that. He would have seen me there and quite rightly would have expected me to deal with it, but thats just my point of view.

Fwiw

My team for sunday ( never going to happen)

Forster

Kwp  bednarek   salisu    peraud

Liv.   Jwp   OR.  S.Armstrong A.Arms.

Adams

4-5-1

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3 hours ago, benjii said:

Pretty obvious that we should pack the defence and midfield, play cautiously, and try to do them on the break.

So no doubt we'll go gung-ho "4222", surrender the midfield in the second half and get twonked.

😂😂😂

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1 hour ago, Hawkswood said:

Thought Id get stuck into this argument as well. Its seems on here its just a matter of opinion. I played cb for years to a good level. Personally speaking, I wouldve been hugely pissed off with myself for stopping and letting the ball drop there and I wouldnt have expected my keeper to come for that. He would have seen me there and quite rightly would have expected me to deal with it, but thats just my point of view.

Fwiw

My team for sunday ( never going to happen)

Forster

Kwp  bednarek   salisu    peraud

Liv.   Jwp   OR.  S.Armstrong A.Arms.

Adams

4-5-1

I've also played at a decent level. Why salissu just stops I don't know. If there was no call then you deal with it. Not been too impressed with salissu since he signed to be honest. Heres hoping he learns from his mistakes.

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2 hours ago, Hawkswood said:

Thought Id get stuck into this argument as well. Its seems on here its just a matter of opinion. I played cb for years to a good level. Personally speaking, I wouldve been hugely pissed off with myself for stopping and letting the ball drop there and I wouldnt have expected my keeper to come for that. He would have seen me there and quite rightly would have expected me to deal with it, but thats just my point of view.

Fwiw

My team for sunday ( never going to happen)

Forster

Kwp  bednarek   salisu    peraud

Liv.   Jwp   OR.  S.Armstrong A.Arms.

Adams

4-5-1

Has A Armstrong played wide left before? 

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16 minutes ago, Viking Saint said:

Has A Armstrong played wide left before? 

According to Blackburn fans  apparently he was out there when first at Blackburn and a bit of Chocolate Teapot in that position especially compared to when he was played more centrally and started rattling them into the back of the net at will.

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22 minutes ago, Viking Saint said:

Has A Armstrong played wide left before? 

Didnt I read somewhere on here that he can play anywhere along the front 3 or am I thinking of someone else we were linked with ?

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4 hours ago, Mr X said:

I know we are only one game in but I really do fear for us this season, think maybe our luck of just about scraping by will run out. We have the same lack of mental strength as last season (why have we not erased this or at least improved), haven't sorted out our defence or keeper problems, sold our best and most consistent goal scorer, sold an experienced lump of a defender without an immediate replacement lined up, and our new signings will take some time to adapt to this league and how Ralph insists on playing.  We don't have that one star player on our team sheet anymore that can make things happen! (Obviously AA has the potential to be but to early to say) 

I don't think you're too wrong. I do think this could be the season we finally do what we've been threatening to do for a while and get relegated. 

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Pace. I would put all our quickest players in there and really bang them on the counter attack, as even though we're the home team, a team like United will have most of the possession. That means playing Tella somewhere. 

 

It's a shame we don't have the extra centre back yet, because the other option would be to go with 3 CBs and have Tino and Perraud as wing backs, Romeu and JWP in the middle and Tella, Adams and Armstrong up the top. I know the 3 CB situation was bleak leading up to our initial 9-0 against Leicester, but I still think it has it's place against better teams.

 

Personally my favourite formation is the 4-2-3-1 we played under Pochettino but we are a million miles away from having the defensive and attacking midfielders needed for the formation!

 

I support Hasenhuttl, he isn't perfect but I think he's been dealt a shitty hand taking us on with no added transfer budget, inheriting a shitty squad and then having an injury crisis that would have wiped out Any of the bottom 14, but he has made strange choices of late. Walcott is a back up, and should be a back up. His signing was poor anyway but it doesn't mean you have to use him. To leave others out in favour of him is crazy - this isn't the Walcott of 12 years ago. 

 

Our best team is probably: Forster, Tino/KWP, Bednarek, Salisu, Perraud, JWP, Romeu, Armstrong, Tella/Redmond, Armstrong, Adams so let's hope we play something close to it at the weekend.

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I don’t usually do this. What do I know. I would go for experience against United. Being part Cornish I have a soft spot for Stephens. Oh dear.

Forster

KWP Stephens Bednarek Perraud

JWP Romeu

Armstrong Redmond

Armstrong Adams

Bednarek to mark Fernandes and Stephens Pogba.

Anything better than 9-0 is progress.

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In all the years I've supported Saints, I never been less confident about getting anything against Manchester Utd. 

Man, that is depressing. Our L1 team would have put up a fight. I wouldn't trust this lot with a 2-0 with ten to go. Weak as piss.

Roll on Toon.........

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15 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Who is marking their strikers? 🤔

JWP/Romeu/Perraud/KWP plus maybe one of the Armstrongs and Che. 9 men behind the ball plus the bus. Redmond isn’t much of a defender. What do I know as I said.

Edited by redder freak
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8 minutes ago, redder freak said:

JWP/Romeu/Perraud/KWP plus maybe one of the Armstrongs and Che. 9 men behind the ball plus the bus. Redmond isn’t much of a defender. What do I know as I said.

The team would be in an absolute mess if the centre backs are not marking the strikers for the majority of the match and are instead marking their deeper midfielders. 

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24 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

The team would be in an absolute mess if the centre backs are not marking the strikers for the majority of the match and are instead marking their deeper midfielders. 

Their deeper midfielders score most of their goals so hopefully someone will mark them closely.

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2 hours ago, redder freak said:

I don’t usually do this. What do I know. I would go for experience against United. Being part Cornish I have a soft spot for Stephens. Oh dear.

Forster

KWP Stephens Bednarek Perraud

JWP Romeu

Armstrong Redmond

Armstrong Adams

Bednarek to mark Fernandes and Stephens Pogba.

Anything better than 9-0 is progress.

Maybe you didn't notice Stephens completely fail to track Calvert-Lewin or even so much as twist his head to see where he was as he ran into the box and stooped to head home unmarked. For some reason only he can explain Stephens looked surprised as though he didn't expect to see him there - either that or he didn't care and to be fair, that's the impression he gave.

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6 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I don't think you're too wrong. I do think this could be the season we finally do what we've been threatening to do for a while and get relegated. 

I really think its going to be tough, even out of the newly promoted sides its clear Watford are potentially stronger than us.

Even if you take the next ten fixtures my predictions being optimistic is 7 points from a possible 30

Man United H 0 points

Newcastle A 1 Point

West Ham H 0 Points 

Man City A 0 Points

Wolves H 1 Point

Chelsea A 0 points

Leeds H 1 Point

Burley H 3 Points!

Watford A 0 points

Villa H  - 1 point

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Mr X said:

I really think its going to be tough, even out of the newly promoted sides its clear Watford are potentially stronger than us.

Even if you take the next ten fixtures my predictions being optimistic is 7 points from a possible 30

Man United H 0 points

Newcastle A 1 Point

West Ham H 0 Points 

Man City A 0 Points

Wolves H 1 Point

Chelsea A 0 points

Leeds H 1 Point

Burley H 3 Points!

Watford A 0 points

Villa H  - 1 point

 

 

3 points against Burley. The new New Forest derby. 

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1 hour ago, Mr X said:

I really think its going to be tough, even out of the newly promoted sides its clear Watford are potentially stronger than us.

Even if you take the next ten fixtures my predictions being optimistic is 7 points from a possible 30

Man United H 0 points

Newcastle A 1 Point

West Ham H 0 Points 

Man City A 0 Points

Wolves H 1 Point

Chelsea A 0 points

Leeds H 1 Point

Burley H 3 Points!

Watford A 0 points

Villa H  - 1 point

 

 

Nobody cares you plum. This is about the Utd game.

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We really need to set up to frustrate United as they've too much class all over the pitch. Would prefer we went 4-1-4-1. With only one striker I would opt for Adams to try and hold it up and if we're still in the game last 25 mins then look to bring Adam Armstrong on. Or if Armstrong is comfortable playing off the wing then start him ahead of Tella.

                     Forster

KWP    Salisu   Stephens  Perraud

                     Romeu

Tino     JWP    S Armstrong  Tella

                     Adams

Ralph wont do this though. He'll try to go on the offensive and employ the usual 4-2-2-2. We'll press like crazy first 25 and then get picked apart once we tire and spaces open up  4-1 United I reckon

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6 hours ago, Mr X said:

I really think its going to be tough, even out of the newly promoted sides its clear Watford are potentially stronger than us.

Even if you take the next ten fixtures my predictions being optimistic is 7 points from a possible 30

Man United H 0 points

Newcastle A 1 Point

West Ham H 0 Points 

Man City A 0 Points

Wolves H 1 Point

Chelsea A 0 points

Leeds H 1 Point

Burley H 3 Points!

Watford A 0 points

Villa H  - 1 point

 

 

How come we lose a point for the Villa game? Will we smuggle on a few more Armstrongs while no-one is looking and get caught when Mike Dean notices we have 3 in goal and a front sweeper?

 

MLG note: yes yes, I know...

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6 hours ago, woodsaint1 said:

We really need to set up to frustrate United as they've too much class all over the pitch. Would prefer we went 4-1-4-1. With only one striker I would opt for Adams to try and hold it up and if we're still in the game last 25 mins then look to bring Adam Armstrong on. Or if Armstrong is comfortable playing off the wing then start him ahead of Tella.

                     Forster

KWP    Salisu   Stephens  Perraud

                     Romeu

Tino     JWP    S Armstrong  Tella

                     Adams

Ralph wont do this though. He'll try to go on the offensive and employ the usual 4-2-2-2. We'll press like crazy first 25 and then get picked apart once we tire and spaces open up  4-1 United I reckon

I'd be more conservative than that. I wouldn't throw Tino into this, and I think 2 up top would be mental. I'd have 3 in midfield and try not to get completely over run.

Your keeper / back 4. Midfield of Romeu, Diallo, JWP. S Armstrong and Redmond/Djenepo/Tella out wide, and Adams up top. 

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Wouldn't be surprised if we go 3-4-1-2 for this...

------------------McCarthy (I'd pick Forster)

-------Bednarek - Stephens - Salisu

Livramento ---- Romeu --JWP--- Perraud

-----------------Armstrong

-------------Adams---Armstrong

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Really enjoyed reading the tactical analysis here.  Some great points.

 

The thing that has really stood out to me is the lack of variety in our play.  You could literally go through the last 100 Saints matches but for a couple of odd exceptions (ironically where we played different formation like against Man City or the drubbing from United) and we have no deviation in play.  Not even through different personnel.  

 

Several things jump out from that.  

  • We are easiest team to play against tactically in the league.  This is a major weakness.
  • The depth and variety of the squad is poor.  (Redmond or Djenepo to me is the equivalent of saying do you want to start 10 players on the pitch or 10 players)
  • Ralph doesn’t seem to have the ability to learn or adapt (I do like Ralph)
  • Players look out of ideas but for a small flurry in the first half

 

There are loads more questions that come from this such as what are we doing in training, why aren’t we recruiting to improve the starting lineup in the style Ralph wants and why do we have no plan B?

 

Ultimately like everyone else has stated on this forum.  We seem to have issues with tactics, manager, personnel, money, motivation and ability too.   Then we win a game and suddenly everything is rosey again and we paper over the cracks.

 

Another observation from myself is that we are so reliant on JWP set-pieces it hugely hampers us if he’s off form (and especially now Vest has gone).   I find his general play far too basic.  He has heart no question, but he’s so often out of position but rarely contributing defensively or in an attacking manner in general play.  Now I’m not a JWP hater by any stretch but the best I have ever seen JWP play was that England game where he burst forward and scored.  Granted the oppo wasn’t up to much but he had purpose and played much higher up the pitch.  He passed quicker, looked to build triangles and actually looked to try things I have very rarely seen him do in a saints shirt.  That’s not all on JWP either…

 

I think this causes us so many issues as we really need him to be jack of all trades - creator, shield and leader.  I think he’s too limited to offer us that and therefore we need to look at ways of reducing his workload but increasing his output to what is beneficial for the team.   To my mind we need a change in formation to do that.  4-2-3-1 would be the obvious choice.  I actually think he would do a job as a deep lying playmaker and concentrate on keeping the moving forward quickly to attacking players.  He can also play as a 10 if we want more pressing support up top.  Just not in this 4-2-2-2 nonsense which makes him so isolated and limited in his passing options.

 

For what it’s worth I’d play 4-3-1-2 this weekend

Forster

KWP.  Bed.  Salisu.  Perraud

       S Arm.   Romeu.   JWP

                 Livramento

            Che.       A. Arm.

 

Yes I think Livramento can play behind strikers and I think he’d be much more effective than Djenepo, Redmond or Walcott.  I think we need the width to come from fullbacks and more rotation in the centre. 

 

Anyhow, just a few observations for a first post.

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I have always liked the 4-2-3-1 formation, trying the same 4-2-2-2 thing against Utd with Pogba and Fernandes in the middle is just suicidal. I would go for:

----------------- Forster ------------------ 
KWP -------- Bed ------ Salisu ------ Perraud
------------ JWP ------- Romeu -------------
----- Theo ------- S. Arm ------- Djenpo --- 
------------------- Che --------------------  

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5 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I have always liked the 4-2-3-1 formation, trying the same 4-2-2-2 thing against Utd with Pogba and Fernandes in the middle is just suicidal. I would go for:

----------------- Forster ------------------ 
KWP -------- Bed ------ Salisu ------ Perraud
------------ JWP ------- Romeu -------------
----- Theo ------- S. Arm ------- Djenpo --- 
------------------- Che --------------------  

So your dropping Adam Armstrong but playing theo who does nothing. You've been rumbled ralph. Leave tactics to the experts.

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6 minutes ago, Streaky said:

So your dropping Adam Armstrong but playing theo who does nothing. You've been rumbled ralph. Leave tactics to the experts.

I haven't seen Adam Armstrong play yet so it's hard to say wether to start him or not.

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6 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

A selection hint from Ralph?

"Ralph Hasenhuttl insisted Saints could “count on” returning Mohamed Elyounoussi and added: “I’m sure that this season he will make a lot of games."

Hasenhuttl: Saints 'can count on' Mohamed Elyounoussi | Daily Echo

Please God NO! What the hell did Ralph see in those preseason games that i did not??? 

I rarely slate our own players but even i have got fed up with some of Ralphs weird selections. Elyounoussi should be nowhere near a Premiership team and the same goes for Stephens and bless him Theo who offers bugger all ON THE PITCH.

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2 hours ago, Streaky said:

So your dropping Adam Armstrong but playing theo who does nothing. You've been rumbled ralph. Leave tactics to the experts.

I'm not sure that an expert would play A Armstrong on the wing when we have Theo, Tella, Djenepo and Livramento. 

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8 minutes ago, egg said:

I'm not sure that an expert would play A Armstrong on the wing when we have Theo, Tella, Djenepo and Livramento. 

Who said Adam Armstrong would be on the wing? He's our best striker, whatever that's worth.

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2 minutes ago, Streaky said:

Who said Adam Armstrong would be on the wing? He's our best striker, whatever that's worth.

The post you were replying to was about a 4231 line up...with wingers. 

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We gave them a good game last year and were unlucky not to get something out of it. If we find ourselves in similar position we have a stronger bench now - IF Ralph uses it in time. Pogba is still Pogba and will not like being pressed and we have to take our chances when we get them. it might be a repeat of the Leicester (or Liverpool) game last year - looking forward to it! Where's my flag?

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If we set up in the same way that Ralph has had us set up in 95% of his time here, I fear another 9-0 could be incoming. 

Surely another heavy defeat and even Ralph can’t survive it…? 

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12 minutes ago, Dman said:

If we set up in the same way that Ralph has had us set up in 95% of his time here, I fear another 9-0 could be incoming. 

Surely another heavy defeat and even Ralph can’t survive it…? 

He isn't getting sacked 2 games into a season where he has just seen massive overhaul of his squad with 6 incomings (likely more coming). He will definitely get atleast 10 games to make his new signings work.

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Ralph and Semmens have had a good 'window' and possibly more still to come.Dead wood gone is a big achievement at last. Fresh blood in--young hopeful and hungry--and all on a mini budget. Please can we stop the gibberish about sacking Ralph, congratulate him on the achievement and support the young team heartily---but I would like a proper goalkeeper

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19 minutes ago, TWar said:

He isn't getting sacked 2 games into a season where he has just seen massive overhaul of his squad with 6 incomings (likely more coming). He will definitely get atleast 10 games to make his new signings work.

You think he’ll survive another 6/7+ - 0 defeat? Who knows, we’re in balls deep with him so you’re probably right. I guess the question is do you think he deserves to. 

I have to say, yours and the boards support is admirable, and I’d love to have the confidence that he’s going to turn things around, but he won’t. By using ‘it’s only 2 games into the season’ as an excuse, we’re just delaying the inevitable. 

Let’s hope United have an off day and we can Somehow steal a result of some kind to kick start the season. 

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4 minutes ago, Dman said:

You think he’ll survive another 6/7+ - 0 defeat? Who knows, we’re in balls deep with him so you’re probably right. I guess the question is do you think he deserves to. 

I have to say, yours and the boards support is admirable, and I’d love to have the confidence that he’s going to turn things around, but he won’t. By using ‘it’s only 2 games into the season’ as an excuse, we’re just delaying the inevitable. 

Let’s hope United have an off day and we can Somehow steal a result of some kind to kick start the season. 

Probably yeah. Big defeats against big teams won't bother the powers that be as much as lots of small defeats against teams around us, as they have little effect on relegation risk. I think he will get a chance with his newly updated squad to show we have what it takes to be a midtable side, which is probably the goal.

Also the "but he won't" bit seems like something you can't really predict. We shall see.

Also final question, are you SKD? If so why were you banned? It's fine if you don't want to say and get this acc banned too but SKD always seemed quite reasonable regardless of us holding vastly different views so would be a shame to see they got kicked off.

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  • Lighthouse changed the title to Saints vs. Man Utd - Match Thread
  • Lighthouse changed the title to Saints 1-1 Man Utd - Match Thread
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