Saints 2-2 Leeds - Match Thread

[Sheaf Saint]

1 minute ago, skintsaint said:

Another case of what might have been. Ditch the three centre backs please.

And make sure Bednarek isn't one of the two who do play.

OK we did very well to get a point out of that, because we were looking so bad at 0-2 down. It begs the question though, why did RH stick with the dreadful 352 for so long when it obviously doesn't work with the players we have?

All of the new signings have shown some decent quality so far.

ABK is quite obviously a better CB than JB (and Valery), and Mara is a massive upgrade on Long. That through ball for the second goal was exquisite.

But please Ralph, pleeeeeeease, just stick with what you know works and has served us so well in the past. None of this fannying around with the formation. Find your best 11 in a 4222 and play them consistently.

[M271]

Glad that we got a least a point. Hopefully will improve team morale and Ralph has learnt our best formation and players in that last 30 mins.

[qwertyell]

Well, we're on the board - and surely taking with us a little bit of positivity and momentum after a decent comeback.

Another must-win game slips by without the desired result, though. The next four don't look likely to yield a win.

Five at the back is absolute shite for us. Can't defend no matter how many muppets are back there, and it just kills what little attacking threat we have.

We muddle on.

Edited 13 August, 2022 by qwertyell

[Bad Wolf]

Absolutely gutted. I dread to think what the final score was but I switched off at 2-0 having reliably been informed that Ralph has no Plan B.

[CanadaSaint]

When was the last time Ralph had a multi-coach tactical pow-wow during a game?

It’s not in his DNA, so that was either pre-match direction from above or humility and fear in progress.

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, Ralph Fastenbüttl said:

One would suspect that guarantees we're 4-2-2-2 from hereon in. Thank fuck.

Don't count on it.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Bad Wolf said:

Absolutely gutted. I dread to think what the final score was but I switched off at 2-0 having reliably been informed that Ralph has no Plan B.

He doesn't.  His plan B is appalling (hence why we were back in the game within about 60 seconds of returning to his normal set up)

[Warriorsaint]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

You miss so many points. Won't bother trying to explain.

Oh go on . Pleeeeeease!

[Convict Colony]

Not read anything in this thread so my unfiltered thoughts.

Rebuen Selles - telling ralph quite passionately about something before our drinks break when we then took bederak off and switched to 4 at the back and looked mustard.

Ralph - for listening to his assistants - I watched a fair bit of what he was doing and he was consulting with them a lot through the game.

Mara - An assist our midfielders have never made over the lsat 4yrs and should be trying to do every week, delightful, awesome shot as well - well done amigo.

Djenepo - got a lot of grief last week, worked fucking hard this week and offered a lot going forward.

BK & Sali - Looked like we finally have brick shit houses with pace at CB.

Lavia - This boy is quality - never have I seen a DM who look so elegant.

Bazunu - Finally a goalkeeper without chocolate wrists and close control redmond can only dream of.

Edited 13 August, 2022 by Convict Colony

[Suhari]

What it is to be a Saints fan, eh?

So....

- Our new guys can play a bit. Maybe the SR scouting team know their onions?

- We're best with a back 4, and going for it. RH: remember this, you plum.

- Djenepo is an adequate backup LB 

- ABK could become a beast

 

Reasonably happy. Certainly more optimistic than 45 minutes ago.

With a couple more signings and RH getting back to his pressing philosophy, I think this season will be a lot of fun.

 

[wadesmith]

A stay of execution for The Austrian Steve Wigley

[beatlesaint]

I do wonder if as soon as it went 4-2-2-2 the players thought to themselves that this is the chance to show we are more comfortable with this and vaguely know what we are doing !

[Baird of the land]

2 minutes ago, DT said:

Relieved with the point, disappointed he now won’t be sacked, irritated he is so obstinate, tactically inept and does not know his right team. Overall, it’s going to still be a long season. 

Guess i'm less of that view than you. Ralph being humiliated out of a ridiculous tactic set up is enough for me for now. If next week we revert and shitnarek gets in the lineup again then yeah it'll be a missed opprtunity.

[Midfield_General]

9 minutes ago, Piran said:

Enigmas are good.

I think you'll find it's 'enigmii'

[mitch01]

Djenepo was good. Aribo was good. ABK was good. Hopefully this simplifies Ralph's formation quandary for him, we immediately had so many more options when we changed it. The danger will remain that when the pressing isn't spot on it can go thoroughly pear-shaped, but at least we looked a threat playing that way 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

3 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Guess i'm less of that view than you. Ralph being humiliated out of a ridiculous tactic set up is enough for me for now. If next week we revert and shitnarek gets in the lineup again then yeah it'll be a missed opprtunity.

I'm not sure how logistically we sack the manager right now. Would surely put off players from signing if there's no manager in place

Edited 13 August, 2022 by Ex Lion Tamer

[The Cat]

1 hour ago, OttawaSaint said:

Game over...

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Warriorsaint]

1 minute ago, Convict Colony said:

Not read anything in this thread so my unfiltered thoughts.

Rebuen Selles - telling ralph quite passionately about something before our drinks break when we then took bederak off and switched to 4 at the back and looked mustard.

Ralph - for listening to his assistants - I watched a fair bit of what he was doing and he was consulting with them a lot through the game.

Mara - An assist our midfielders have never made over the lsat 4yrs and should be trying to do every week, delightful, awesome shot as well - well do amigo.

Djenepo - got a lot of grief last week, worked fucking hard this week and offered a lot going forward.

BK & Sali - Looked like we finally have brick shit houses with pace at CB.

Lavia - This boy is quality - never have I seen a DM who look so elegant.

Bazunu - Finally a goalkeeper without chocolate wrists and close control redmond can only dream of.

Well said, reasonable, thought out and no bed wetting!

[HKsaint]

Everything changed after taking out Bednarek. 

[Sarnia Cherie]

1 minute ago, M271 said:

Glad that we got a least a point. Hopefully will improve team morale and Ralph has learnt our best formation and players in that last 30 mins.

Well let's hope so. We can play some decent football when players are in their best position and solid decisions have been made on formation and tactics. Unfortunately Ralph likes to tinker or stubbornly sticks with game plans which don't work and then it all falls off a cliff. 

[Saint86]

1 minute ago, CanadaSaint said:

When was the last time Ralph had a multi-coach tactical pow-wow during a game?

It’s not in his DNA, so that was either pre-match direction from above or humility and fear in progress.

Or he spent last seasons with Kelvin Davis and Dave Watson for support and decided things needed to change 😉

Reality is that first half was okay, start of the second half was dire, and the rest of the half was superb.

We absorbed a lot of what Leeds through at us, they got tired, and then we stepped it up and put them to the sword.... or, he finally realised the 3-5-2 doesn't work for us and wastes our attacking players whilst relying on our wing backs to do everything.

[UpweySaint]

Just now, Bad Wolf said:

Absolutely gutted. I dread to think what the final score was but I switched off at 2-0 having reliably been informed that Ralph has no Plan B.

Take the point but something I noticed was the coaching staff collectively were discussing what to do. Selles looked like he was giving advice. We can't know what goes on in these discussions but I think 99% of us have been crying out for a coaching team to actively support Ralph during games it it looks like that may have been the case today.

 

[The Cat]

49 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

AA coming on. We're saved!

Same guy that set up the first goal?

[Baird of the land]

In a 4 our attackers can actually be a threat. Witness Adam armstrong working in the lines to set up our first goal. Also KWP becomes a weapon again bursting from deep, whereas in the 5 he offers much less threat and if anything gets caught out on the transition.

[Disco Stu]

Players worked hard to claw that back so full credit to them. Armstrong may be more suited to a wider role. Mara looks lively, Aribo proved why he should have started.

The starting shape really hurt us. We looked so unthreatening and Leeds kept exploiting the huge spaces in our back line. Also, we still can't defend crosses.

We finally changed shape around 70 minutes (too late as far as I'm concerned) and the contrast was stark. Glad we didn't lose again but frustrating game given it was so clear the strategy wasn't working even before half-time.

Ultimately, we've failed to win at home to a relegation rival but hopefully this game will spell the end of this 3 CB experiment which would be a huge positive.

[Bad Wolf]

Sorry but I can't recall a more impressive comeback in this fixture.......

[The Cat]

48 minutes ago, sydney_saint said:

Time is up

Do games finish with 25 minutes to go now?

[obelisk]

Ralph will soon have that skill and excitement knocked out of our new signings.

[OttawaSaint]

2 minutes ago, The Cat said:

🤣🤣🤣🤣

My master plan worked!!

[badgerx16]

8 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

Good character to fight back from 2 down. The question is has Ralph learned from this?

If he starts with 4 at the back, drops Bednarek, starts Aribo and Mara next time then I think he buys himself a bit more time. If he starts with 5 at the back and Bednarek is in the starting line up he can just fuck off.

I think somebody at the training ground should lock Bednarek out of sight in a cupboard until kick off in the next match.

[Suhari]

1 minute ago, UpweySaint said:

Take the point but something I noticed was the coaching staff collectively were discussing what to do. Selles looked like he was giving advice. We can't know what goes on in these discussions but I think 99% of us have been crying out for a coaching team to actively support Ralph during games it it looks like that may have been the case today.

 

This was the case in pre-season too.

My view is that RH didn't respect the knowledge or opinions of our previous coaching team, so didn't listen to them. To be honest, why would you?

Great that he's got better quality alongside him now.

[Warriorsaint]

3 minutes ago, Suhari said:

What it is to be a Saints fan, eh?

So....

- Our new guys can play a bit. Maybe the SR scouting team know their onions?

- We're best with a back 4, and going for it. RH: remember this, you plum.

- Djenepo is an adequate backup LB 

- ABK could become a beast

 

Reasonably happy. Certainly more optimistic than 45 minutes ago.

With a couple more signings and RH getting back to his pressing philosophy, I think this season will be a lot of fun.

 

Absolutely, the point most seem to be missing here is his reasoning. He is trying to rectify the frailties in his preferred system.

We don’t  have the world class players to play his system and not get spanked 9-0 every so often.

 I give him kudos for trying to adapt.

 I think we don’t have time for this team to work through this system so he will go back to the regular system and we will just have to put up  with the occasional mauling.

It a balancing act. 

 

[Matthew Le God]

Some of you need to wait until fulltime in a game!

The contrast between playing 3421 formation in the first half and switching to 4222 in the second half was huge! So much easier for Saints to use a high press with the 4222. Hopefully we stick with it for a while!

[ElTrinidad]

Great last 20! As we all knew, back 4 is the way to go and this has got to be irrefutable evidence for Ralph to start with that next week.

We were unlucky to take 3 points with Mara smacking an absolute zinger late on which was well saved. Ralph did probably kill the game by replacing Djenepo (who ended the game very well) with Stephens at the end, but plenty of positives to take.

Lavia phenominal again, Aribo and ABK look to be real tallents and Mara looks to have something about him, almost similar to broja in his early days here last season.

Keep the positivity lads, too much toxic nonsense online which can make it seem like we're relagation fodder after one game, but far from it.

[santolijador]

all the new signings look decent, ABK should start from now on, loved the cameo from Sekou and also enjoyed KWP kissing the badge and showing some leadership

[The Cat]

Nothing better than a comeback from a couple of goals down. 

Bit weird if the players hate the manager that they ran themselves in to the ground to pull that game back. Would have thought they'd have downed tools at 2-0 and gone through the motions if that was the case.

That last 20 minutes shows we can play. 2 great goals and the ball from Mara to KWP for the second was an absolute delight.

[Turkish]

9 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Was he deemed better? Perhaps as was said it was more about not blooding too many new players at once, especially in a tough away game.

So instead of picking a new player he picked one who played 8 games in the last two season. I think we can add football to the long list of things you don’t know much about 

[Baird of the land]

1 minute ago, Disco Stu said:

Players worked hard to claw that back so full credit to them. Armstrong may be more suited to a wider role. Mara looks lively, Aribo proved why he should have started.

The starting shape really hurt us. We looked so unthreatening and Leeds kept exploiting the huge spaces in our back line. Also, we still can't defend crosses.

We finally changed shape around 70 minutes (too late as far as I'm concerned) and the contrast was stark. Glad we didn't lose again but frustrating game given it was so clear the strategy wasn't working even before half-time.

Ultimately, we've failed to win at home to a relegation rival but hopefully this game will spell the end of this 3 CB experiment which would be a huge positive.

Prayers answered when we scored a minute after taking off shitnarek and going back to our attacking approach as far as i'm concerned. 2 points dropped sure but as long as it stops ralph thinking the Arsenal fluke is a template for success i'm relieved.

[The Cat]

Djenepo was absolutely superb in the second half. Where did that come from?

Aribo is quality.

 

[Warriorsaint]

3 minutes ago, obelisk said:

Ralph will soon have that skill and excitement knocked out of our new signings.

Can you go back to your book of stock  clichés and pick another one. 
Ta.

[Convict Colony]

I dont need to look at a table to know we arent bottom at least.

Thanks Everton

[Saint86]

8 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Not read anything in this thread so my unfiltered thoughts.

Rebuen Selles - telling ralph quite passionately about something before our drinks break when we then took bederak off and switched to 4 at the back and looked mustard.

Ralph - for listening to his assistants - I watched a fair bit of what he was doing and he was consulting with them a lot through the game.

Mara - An assist our midfielders have never made over the lsat 4yrs and should be trying to do every week, delightful, awesome shot as well - well done amigo.

Djenepo - got a lot of grief last week, worked fucking hard this week and offered a lot going forward.

BK & Sali - Looked like we finally have brick shit houses with pace at CB.

Lavia - This boy is quality - never have I seen a DM who look so elegant.

Bazunu - Finally a goalkeeper without chocolate wrists and close control redmond can only dream of.

Spot on.

KWP was superb as well.

We've just outplayed and outlasted a very fit Leeds sides in pretty ridiculous heat, and in doing so we secured a very credible comeback point. We saw so many of the summer changes come together today - the new coaching support for Ralph that has been sorely missed in previous years, and numerous new players demonstrating what they can offer.

[SNSUN]

Y'all can thank me for that second half performance as I fell asleep at half time so bored was I and just napped through it all. 

 

Wow, who'd have thought Ralph would eventually do what we've all been crying out for and play a formation to our strengths. Honestly. I guess reading about it it seems like one point gained but maybe with a different formation we wouldn't have been 2 nil down in the first place.

 

(Apologies for 'y'all'.)

 

It'll be interesting to see where we go from this comeback. Whether SR pull the trigger anyway and give a new manager some transfer window time or Ralph lasts way longer than he should. 

[UpweySaint]

1 minute ago, Suhari said:

This was the case in pre-season too.

My view is that RH didn't respect the knowledge or opinions of our previous coaching team, so didn't listen to them. To be honest, why would you?

Great that he's got better quality alongside him now.

I didn't watch much of preseason so thanks for sharing that, good to know it's a consistent theme and not a one off. Whatever has prompted the change it feels like a real positive that there are potentially multiple voices to share legitimate expertise. 

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, Convict Colony said:

I dont need to look at a table to know we arent bottom at least.

Thanks Everton

We’re 15th!!

We are staying up.

[The Cat]

35 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Shocker, within 10 mins of a proper formation, we are back level

Weird that rather than celebrate a goal you just straight slag off the manager?

[Matthew Le God]

3 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

I dont need to look at a table to know we arent bottom at least.

Thanks Everton

More than just Everton. Saints are also currently above Man Utd, Palace, Forest and West Ham.

[Saint86]

5 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Nothing better than a comeback from a couple of goals down. 

Bit weird if the players hate the manager that they ran themselves in to the ground to pull that game back. Would have thought they'd have downed tools at 2-0 and gone through the motions if that was the case.

That last 20 minutes shows we can play. 2 great goals and the ball from Mara to KWP for the second was an absolute delight.

Another good point. Its hard to say we were only set up "not to lose games" last season - basically every week we get the "points dropped from winning positions" stat thrown in our faces 🤣.

Didn't see much sign of that team not trying today - but i think we all know that 3-5-2 formation needs to be used as an exception, not the norm. That or significantly tweaked.

Some exciting promise for the season ahead at any rate - provided we stick to our 4-2-2-2 yolo pressing.

[adrian lord]

9 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Sorry but I can't recall a more impressive comeback in this fixture.......

Unfortunately many of us can. 2005, Saints went in 3-0 up at half-time, only to lose 3-4. 

[CanadaSaint]

Hopefully Ralph can park his ego and obstinacy and learn the fundamental tactical lessons that today’s game provides.

If he doesn’t, we can at least be encouraged that someone in that coaching staff knows how we need to play.

I don’t think that will be lost on the club hierarchy.