West Ham 1-0 Saints - Match Thread

[austsaint]

9 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

It's not just about the individuals though - it's about how they work together as a pairing, the time they spend together playing in a specific system with specific tactics, the time they spend playing Premiership level games.  Then there's the prospect of only having Lyanco on the bench.  Hope they're fantastic because there's a very good chance they will be our CB pairing for the remainder of the season and instrumental in keeping us up or not.  There's a reason they've not been selected over Bednarek and ABK - why do you think that is?

I take your point about continuity, system and tactics.    However, I think Selles has erred by re-instating Bednarek, even if he hasn't done badly. Over a long period of time, he (Bednarek) has been part of the problem we've had at CB.   There was a good reason he was loaned to Villa, and a reason he hardly featured.  On the other hand Salisu has (after a slow start) shown himself to be genuine Prem level - it hasn't helped this season that he has often been asked to play LB and suffered an injury or two, but, over a period of time, he's shown strength, speed, aerial skill and defensive qualities.

Salisu and ABK have worked as a pairing and in my mind if they had both been fit and available, would have been the best pairing with two specialist full backs, especially from the point of the Jones "tenure" where the spectre of relegation threat became so alarming.   DCC is an odd case - prior to the sending off (was it the Newcastle Cup first leg?) he had showed himself to be a calm, composed, tight marking player, good in the air and with an eye for a pass.     His red card looked to be a case of "taking one for the team" - yet, subsequently, he's been out of favour, notwithstanding the reported dust up with Jones - the narrative seems to have marked him down as one of our three best CBs which is how I've rated him, behind ABK and Salisu.   

A good indicator of the worth of our four CBs (excluding Lyanco) is what they are likely to fetch in a transfer window - I'm fairly confident ABK and Salisu would/will command a lot of interest and attract healthy fees (despite  MS' contract situation),    DCC more than likely the third most valuable asset to the market and then Bednarek.   So, despite Selles having done well since taking over, I believe he has made a mistake in sticking with Bednarek, just as he has made a mistake in maintaining Elyounoussi as a regular starter.    

For all that, if Selles can mastermind the slim chance of survival he'll be a Club hero and his selections, systems, tactics and pairings will be acclaimed as brave and correct.   Let's hope it happens!

[Whitey Grandad]

7 minutes ago, austsaint said:

I take your point about continuity, system and tactics.    However, I think Selles has erred by re-instating Bednarek, even if he hasn't done badly. Over a long period of time, he (Bednarek) has been part of the problem we've had at CB.   There was a good reason he was loaned to Villa, and a reason he hardly featured.  On the other hand Salisu has (after a slow start) shown himself to be genuine Prem level - it hasn't helped this season that he has often been asked to play LB and suffered an injury or two, but, over a period of time, he's shown strength, speed, aerial skill and defensive qualities.

Salisu and ABK have worked as a pairing and in my mind if they had both been fit and available, would have been the best pairing with two specialist full backs, especially from the point of the Jones "tenure" where the spectre of relegation threat became so alarming.   DCC is an odd case - prior to the sending off (was it the Newcastle Cup first leg?) he had showed himself to be a calm, composed, tight marking player, good in the air and with an eye for a pass.     His red card looked to be a case of "taking one for the team" - yet, subsequently, he's been out of favour, notwithstanding the reported dust up with Jones - the narrative seems to have marked him down as one of our three best CBs which is how I've rated him, behind ABK and Salisu.   

A good indicator of the worth of our four CBs (excluding Lyanco) is what they are likely to fetch in a transfer window - I'm fairly confident ABK and Salisu would/will command a lot of interest and attract healthy fees (despite  MS' contract situation),    DCC more than likely the third most valuable asset to the market and then Bednarek.   So, despite Selles having done well since taking over, I believe he has made a mistake in sticking with Bednarek, just as he has made a mistake in maintaining Elyounoussi as a regular starter.    

For all that, if Selles can mastermind the slim chance of survival he'll be a Club hero and his selections, systems, tactics and pairings will be acclaimed as brave and correct.   Let's hope it happens!

I think the problem with the return of Bednarek was that he hadn’t been playing regularly and wasn’t up to speed and that he was introduced into a team of players with whom he hadn’t trained or played before. He was a rusty stranger.

[Saint_clark]

On 23/03/2023 at 21:57, Whitey Grandad said:

I think the problem with the return of Bednarek was that he hadn’t been playing regularly and wasn’t up to speed and that he was introduced into a team of players with whom he hadn’t trained or played before. He was a rusty stranger.

What was his excuse for 2017 to 2022?

[Saint Fan CaM]

On 23/03/2023 at 21:47, austsaint said:

I take your point about continuity, system and tactics.    However, I think Selles has erred by re-instating Bednarek, even if he hasn't done badly. Over a long period of time, he (Bednarek) has been part of the problem we've had at CB.   There was a good reason he was loaned to Villa, and a reason he hardly featured.  On the other hand Salisu has (after a slow start) shown himself to be genuine Prem level - it hasn't helped this season that he has often been asked to play LB and suffered an injury or two, but, over a period of time, he's shown strength, speed, aerial skill and defensive qualities.

Salisu and ABK have worked as a pairing and in my mind if they had both been fit and available, would have been the best pairing with two specialist full backs, especially from the point of the Jones "tenure" where the spectre of relegation threat became so alarming.   DCC is an odd case - prior to the sending off (was it the Newcastle Cup first leg?) he had showed himself to be a calm, composed, tight marking player, good in the air and with an eye for a pass.     His red card looked to be a case of "taking one for the team" - yet, subsequently, he's been out of favour, notwithstanding the reported dust up with Jones - the narrative seems to have marked him down as one of our three best CBs which is how I've rated him, behind ABK and Salisu.   

A good indicator of the worth of our four CBs (excluding Lyanco) is what they are likely to fetch in a transfer window - I'm fairly confident ABK and Salisu would/will command a lot of interest and attract healthy fees (despite  MS' contract situation),    DCC more than likely the third most valuable asset to the market and then Bednarek.   So, despite Selles having done well since taking over, I believe he has made a mistake in sticking with Bednarek, just as he has made a mistake in maintaining Elyounoussi as a regular starter.    

For all that, if Selles can mastermind the slim chance of survival he'll be a Club hero and his selections, systems, tactics and pairings will be acclaimed as brave and correct.   Let's hope it happens!

I understand the frustration with Bednarek, however the same could be said for ABK and Salisu - inconsistent performances and that’s likely due partly to the high number of changes to the pairing made. Bednarek has had some unfortunate moments in games, but the fact is he’s an experienced senior international and I think that’s why successive Managers have stuck with him.  Selles knows that the best chance he has to get out of the relegation zone is to rely on his most experienced players - hence Walcott coming back into the frame and Ely-no-usey finding himself a regular starter.

[Smirking_Saint]

On 22/03/2023 at 16:24, HnycS said:

Apparently he will play with a pain killing injection for Poland. Chance he plays for Poland, makes the rib injury worse and cannot play for the rest of the season? Would that be in the category of blessing in disguise or not?

Considering he’s probably been our best CB over the last few games no

[Miltonaggro]

On 25/03/2023 at 02:43, Saint_clark said:

What was his excuse for 2017 to 2022?

Fucks sake, he was playing for a 'small club' back then! 

[SFCTony]

I think Sunday's game will be a dull affair. Two teams fighting for their lives. A win would be incredible for us but it has 0-0 written all over it. Big chance for us to get out of the drop zone though! UTS 😇

Edited 27 March, 2023 by SFCTony
Got the day wrong!

[EssEffCee]

My first visit to their new ground. Any pub suggestions as presumably the options aren't great given location?

Thinking I might jump off the tube at Mile End and try my luck in a few pubs around Bow. 

[The Cat]

1 hour ago, EssEffCee said:

My first visit to their new ground. Any pub suggestions as presumably the options aren't great given location?

Thinking I might jump off the tube at Mile End and try my luck in a few pubs around Bow. 

Hackney Wick has a disproportionate number of very good pubs, bars, taprooms etc near to the station. Easily walkable to the ground too.

[Thereisonlyonemickychannon]

This is the game. 3 points or say goodbye and hello championship

[CB Fry]

5 hours ago, Thereisonlyonemickychannon said:

This is the game. 3 points or say goodbye and hello championship

....or defeat and on Sunday morning someone is back on here saying "we're only 5 points off 15th that's nothing, we only need a draw in the next game and we're right back in the mix etc etc etc"

Edited 28 March, 2023 by CB Fry

[Toussaint]

2 hours ago, Thereisonlyonemickychannon said:

This is the game. 3 points or say goodbye and hello championship

True, not only are 3 points essential we need to pull  / keep our relegation rivals down in the mix. WHU have played 2 games less than us which makes it even more important.

[waylander]

2 hours ago, CB Fry said:

....or defeat and on Sunday morning someone is back on here saying "we're only 5 points off 15th that's nothing, we only need a draw in the next game and we're right back in thr mix etc etc etc"

Nobody will be saying that on Sunday morning. The game is Sunday afternoon.

[warsash saint]

Any tube/train strikes/maintenance to be aware of?

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, waylander said:

Nobody will be saying that on Sunday morning. The game is Sunday afternoon.

I reckon that's worth a fiver that someone will say it Sunday morning...

[Pamplemousse]

A point isn't a terrible result.

[Saint86]

Who is out injured? Che, ABK, Bednarek, Salisu?

[Charlie Wayman]

12 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

A point isn't a terrible result.

We need six wins! This is one of the winnable games, we must win it.

[Charlie Wayman]

17 hours ago, EssEffCee said:

My first visit to their new ground. Any pub suggestions as presumably the options aren't great given location?

Thinking I might jump off the tube at Mile End and try my luck in a few pubs around Bow. 

Best to wait until it has stopped, otherwise you'll be head butting a brick wall.

[Saint Garrett]

5 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Who is out injured? Che, ABK, Bednarek, Salisu?

Why would Bednarek be out injured? Just played in the 2 internationals ? Or did he come off injured in one of them ?

[Saint Fan CaM]

34 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

A point isn't a terrible result.

No it's not - if you want us in the Championship next season.  We'll not be mathematically down thanks to the weirdness of the league this year, but this really is as much a must win game as you're ever likely to get.  We're running out of time to catch-up and this would provide that opportunity.

[CamSaint]

21 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

Why would Bednarek be out injured? Just played in the 2 internationals ? Or did he come off injured in one of them ?

Played the full 90 minutes in both according to the OS.

[Saint Fan CaM]

21 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

Why would Bednarek be out injured? Just played in the 2 internationals ? Or did he come off injured in one of them ?

I think he was already injured (cracked ribs) but took pain killing injections to play the international.  Whether or not he'll be allowed to do that for Saints is doubtful but possible I suppose, even to get onto the bench.  It's likely to be DCC and Lyanco starting as I read Salisu has a problem too.

[wild-saint]

28 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I think he was already injured (cracked ribs) but took pain killing injections to play the international.  Whether or not he'll be allowed to do that for Saints is doubtful but possible I suppose, even to get onto the bench.  It's likely to be DCC and Lyanco starting as I read Salisu has a problem too.

Why would we allow him to take injections for an international but no a club game? Has this been reported somewhere or are we guessing? 

[The Kraken]

55 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

We need six wins! 

We don’t need 6 wins. 6 wins, even with 4 defeats, gives us 41 points which in all likelihood will keep us up with a number of points to spare. Potentially 4 wins plus 1 or 2 draws is enough to keep us up, depending how the other games roll. Even 3 wins plus a high number of draws could well be enough.

[cloggy saint]

7 hours ago, Thereisonlyonemickychannon said:

This is the game. 3 points or say goodbye and hello championship

This gets said prior to every game since about December.

[SotonianWill]

57 minutes ago, cloggy saint said:

This gets said prior to every game since about December.

And it’s true every time, we love cliches

[Saint86]

2 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

Why would Bednarek be out injured? Just played in the 2 internationals ? Or did he come off injured in one of them ?

Its not clear that he is fit to play - i was just querying if he is out injured! 😇

[Toussaint]

34 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

And it’s true every time, we love cliches

It gets "truer every time" we play a game and drop points.

[bangkoksaint]

4 hours ago, Pamplemousse said:

A point isn't a terrible result.

I’m just wondering at what point games become must win because it seems that every week posters are saying that a point isn’t a bad result. We’re playing WH, their form is dire, they’re in the mix with us, we’re bottom and we’re running out of games. So I’d respectfully argue that this is a 6 point must win game.

[Mr X]

No excuses not to win this with 100% effort after a two week break... Apart from the fact our team is beyond awful (how the Christ did we score 3 last time?) 😂 seriously we have to win this to have any realistic chance... We are running out of "must win TM" games 

[Weston Super Saint]

57 minutes ago, bangkoksaint said:

I’m just wondering at what point games become must win because it seems that every week posters are saying that a point isn’t a bad result. We’re playing WH, their form is dire, they’re in the mix with us, we’re bottom and we’re running out of games. So I’d respectfully argue that this is a 6 point must win game.

January.

Edited 28 March, 2023 by Weston Super Saint

[EssEffCee]

5 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Best to wait until it has stopped, otherwise you'll be head butting a brick wall.

 

You've obviously seen me at London away matches before! 

[VectisSaint]

4 hours ago, Mr X said:

No excuses not to win this with 100% effort after a two week break... Apart from the fact our team is beyond awful (how the Christ did we score 3 last time?) 😂 seriously we have to win this to have any realistic chance... We are running out of "must win TM" games 

The point is we have to win against teams around us. We are 1 point behind West Ham, if we lose that will be 4 with only 9 left to play. Games against the bottom clubs are "must win" at this stage. 

[Chris cooper]

On 27/03/2023 at 19:45, EssEffCee said:

My first visit to their new ground. Any pub suggestions as presumably the options aren't great given location?

Thinking I might jump off the tube at Mile End and try my luck in a few pubs around Bow. 

There’s a pub in the shopping mall right opposite the front of the stadium  called the ship .. will have the early kick off game on .. get in there no colours 

Edited 28 March, 2023 by Chris cooper

[Turkish]

8 hours ago, The Kraken said:

We don’t need 6 wins. 6 wins, even with 4 defeats, gives us 41 points which in all likelihood will keep us up with a number of points to spare. Potentially 4 wins plus 1 or 2 draws is enough to keep us up, depending how the other games roll. Even 3 wins plus a high number of draws could well be enough.

40 points I won’t rest until we get to 40 points so we need 6 wins. But our unstoppable run to safety will start any game now. You know the run the one we always predict team below us to go on

[Pamplemousse]

18 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

No it's not - if you want us in the Championship next season.  We'll not be mathematically down thanks to the weirdness of the league this year, but this really is as much a must win game as you're ever likely to get.  We're running out of time to catch-up and this would provide that opportunity.

That quote would be true if there were 5 games left of the season.

Imagine if we got 1 point on Sunday and then beat Man City. I think most people would take that right now if offered.

I know we're likely to lose against Man City but that's why in my mind this isn't a must win, there are still plenty of opportunities left. Yes on paper this is an easier one but still, I think I'd be OK with a draw tbh. Worse result for West Ham than us.

[Archers Road Stand]

21 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

That quote would be true if there were 5 games left of the season.

Imagine if we got 1 point on Sunday and then beat Man City. I think most people would take that right now if offered.

I know we're likely to lose against Man City but that's why in my mind this isn't a must win, there are still plenty of opportunities left. Yes on paper this is an easier one but still, I think I'd be OK with a draw tbh. Worse result for West Ham than us.

6 of our final 10 are against teams in the top half of the table, we have to be beating the teams around us. West Ham, Bournemouth, Palace and Forest games are all must win games.

Draws are no good to us now, we've got to take maximum points vs the teams around us, we've already handed out far too many points to the likes of Leeds, Wolves, Palace and Forest which is exactly why it's already an uphill task. 

Also while West Ham fans would be disappointed with a point, it's a far worse result for us considering it keeps them a point ahead of us with two games in hand.

Edited 29 March, 2023 by Archers Road Stand

[Saint Fan CaM]

1 hour ago, Archers Road Stand said:

6 of our final 10 are against teams in the top half of the table, we have to be beating the teams around us. West Ham, Bournemouth, Palace and Forest games are all must win games.

Draws are no good to us now, we've got to take maximum points vs the teams around us, we've already handed out far too many points to the likes of Leeds, Wolves, Palace and Forest which is exactly why it's already an uphill task. 

Also while West Ham fans would be disappointed with a point, it's a far worse result for us considering it keeps them a point ahead of us with two games in hand.

Thank goodness someone has some common sense!  Can’t imagine Selles telling the team “look lads, we don’t need three points here…settle for the draw as we can beat City”! 🤣🤣🤣

[wild-saint]

21 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

We need six wins! This is one of the winnable games, we must win it.

You think we will need to get 39 points? personally i think will be 36 at most. so 4 wins and a draw

[fanimal]

Take each game as it comes and try to win all of them. Simple really 

[St Louis]

On 23/03/2023 at 09:48, austsaint said:

Why are you dreading a possible Salisu and DCC combination, if that's who line up.   Both very good CBs.

I think DCC has looked the poorest of the lot this season (the Marseille fans were pleased to see the back of him too) and whilst Salisu looks a good prospect, he is still so raw and makes too many mistakes, doesnt cut out crosses, etc. So I also worry about the prospect of those two together (as a partnership).

Bednarek (for all his faults) is definitely the more experienced CB that we've been missing for most of the season, I dont think its a coincidence that we started to keep clean sheets when he returned. Not the best player in the world and we can/will improve in future I'm sure, but right now he gives us the leadership the back line has missed all season.

It's a real shame we are going to have to start mixing it up again, as the partnership with Bednarek/ABK was developing by the game, and we were starting to look more solid.

[64saint]

Looks like Moyes will get sacked if we win.  A pattern is starting to emerge here. Poor result against us and the opposition manager is gone !!! Beat Man City in a couple of weeks and maybe it will be Pep's turn 🙄😄

Edited 29 March, 2023 by 64saint

[Saint86]

23 hours ago, bangkoksaint said:

I’m just wondering at what point games become must win because it seems that every week posters are saying that a point isn’t a bad result. We’re playing WH, their form is dire, they’re in the mix with us, we’re bottom and we’re running out of games. So I’d respectfully argue that this is a 6 point must win game.

If we drew our remaining 10games we'd finish on 33 points and be in with a shout of staying up - and certainly in with a shout on the final day. Giving points to direct relegation rivals will only move the required points total upwards. Its still more important not to lose these games (away) than it is to win them. What we have to do is win the home ones - those are our must wins.

Beat Palace, Bournemouth, Fulham (the absolute must win home games). That's 32 points.

Then get a couple of draws out of west ham, Forrest, Brighton, Arsenal, City, Newcastle, and Liverpool. That would get us to circa 34-35 points and likely stay up. 

The people saying we have to beat Bournemouth, Forest, West Ham, Palace, Fulham etc. (38points), or even 6 wins (41points) to survive... Eh?!?! I don't see it. Its so tight down there, the teams will take points of each other and its quite unlikely to be that high.

Edited 29 March, 2023 by Saint86

[The Left Back]

I've long since given up predicting how this season will play out.  In terms of Saints we are better away than at home.  We are better against better teams.  We've had about 10 'must wins' in a row.  We're only 2 points off safety and 4 off 12th.  We're the bookies favourites to go down and they're not often wrong.  None of the others has more points than us from the last 6 games, and only Wolves and Forest more in the last 10. And that's just us.

Palace and Forest are in freefall.  Wolves, Leicester and WHU bumbling along.  Bournemouth, Leeds and Everton are up and down like a yoyo. Anyone of the nine teams could put a run of three wins in a row together and disappear from the equation, but no one does. 

There's nine teams trying really hard to get relegated but only three can be successful.  If we run this scenario 10 times I reckon we'll be relegated in 7. So who knows?

I feel liberated from the fear because we should be buried by now.  Selles has given us something to cling on to and I'm grateful for that at least.

As for this Sunday, who the fuck knows?  Defeat looks pretty terminal. A draw might look ok or it might see the gap grow, but impossible to say as 6 of the bottom 9 play each other.  A win and we can all get a little more excited.

On thing I would wager.  36/7 points will be enough to stay up this season.  9 teams are averaging less than a point a game.  They won't all rectify that from here on.

No predictions here for Sunday just COYS

Edited 29 March, 2023 by The Left Back

[Saint Gifford]

For me, the game is won or lost on the starting 11. 
 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

At the start of the season, people were singing Moyes' praises and saying how good West Ham are. No, they're shit. Apart from the occasional win, they're on a downward trend and we need to be positive from the start and go after them. Some games are for the taking and this is one......but I had high expectations before the last Brentford game too. Depends what Saints team turns up.

[CB Fry]

44 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

At the start of the season, people were singing Moyes' praises and saying how good West Ham are.

Well, the finished 7th and qualified for Europe the season before so why wouldn't people sing their praises?

If you want "shit" maybe look at the club that have been bottom pretty much every week since the world cup.

[Roboze]

If we stay up, of course that will be brilliant. but next year will be another spent scratching about hoping for wins, If we go down, next season could be a lot of fun.... what will be, will be 🤷‍♂️

[Mr Nimbus]

My record for predictions so far has been terrible. However I am not confident about this at all.

Has a feel of when Forest went there the other week and got tanked. 

Everything about it makes me pretty certain we will lose, including being the 2:00pm game on Sky with their awful ex-pros. Think I will just watch it on Peacock/USA