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#Spygate

St Chalet

By St Chalet
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Posted by Miltonaggro,

Apologies for the war and peace post chaps – bear with or scroll past.  For the last week I have been trying to provide a steer on here as to why I think this silly episode will be concluded with a fine (in the region of £200k) and / or a possible future points deduction (though if I were advising Saints I would appeal this).  Simply that talk of forfeit and bans opens a legal can of worms that is well beyond the remit and scope of both the EFL and / or Middlesbrough FC. The best way to get

What a well thought out post. Thank you

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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Dr Who? said:

Rubbish, the hearing has been going on since Friday. This is a very urgent matter, they would not be meeting tomorrow and have their decision the same day. Crazy talk. 

Seems that way. I'd imagine it's deliberations today, the headline decision to be delivered tomorrow, with full written decision to follow.

Saint_lambden

Saint_lambden

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Badger said:

I thought EFL were pursuing the matter as we’d infringed their regulations, rather than as a matter on behalf of Middlesbrough. 

Correct. What the Northern Echo reporter has put there is framing and not fact. It’s written for the benefit of the Middlesbrough readership.

wild-saint

wild-saint

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

k that? If we s

 

11 minutes ago, Dr Who? said:

y. This is a very urgent matter, they would not be meeting tomorrow and have their decision the same day. Crazy talk. 

 

5 minutes ago, Dr Who? said:

Oh don’t get me wrong, they would not have worked weekend! But Friday and today with the decision tomorrow. This is my joining of the dots only of course! But you cannot say something is urgent and then leave it 5 days the week before the final! Then meet, go through all the evidence, make a conclusion and publish the results all in a few hours. Something smells fishy! 

What exactly do they need to do? Look at a few pics of the lad hiding behind a tree, connect the dots to his linkedIn profile and then time stamp the photos against the start time of the training session. Then think how much did Professor plum in the garden with the Iphone saw in the 7 minutes of stretching / limbering up exercises before he was caught. 

Then they get out the magic 8 Ball and ask it if points is a fair punishment. FFS no wonder it takes a week to evaluate a VAR Decision

  • Like 1
Miltonaggro

Miltonaggro

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

@Miltonaggro would be interested in your thoughts about them not starting the panel till tomorrow. 

Still much the same as last week.  I don't know how this regulatory group works, so best guess is they will take all of the time allocated before announcing any outcome and penalty.  No news pushes the nuclear option further down the road perhaps, as amongst other things they won't want to cancel Saturday at effectively three days notice.  Right now, none of us (including Middlesbrough) know Saints position on the accusations as these meetings are in camera, so it might also be that time is needed to regroup to become quorate or follow up on certain matters.  

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John Boy Saint

John Boy Saint

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

They can meet online.

But that way none of them can put in a claim for and expensive lunch washed down with a couple of equally expensive bottles 

  • Like 1
Cuddles

Cuddles

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, John Boy Saint said:

But that way none of them can put in a claim for and expensive lunch washed down with a couple of equally expensive bottles 

Careful, we don't want them to take offence. That said, Boro don't have a fence for them to take anyway.

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Saint_lambden said:

Correct. What the Northern Echo reporter has put there is framing and not fact. It’s written for the benefit of the Middlesbrough readership.

Boro think it's all about them, which is why they demanded they also sit around the table.

They're a bit clueless on how this all works, it has to be said. We haven't broken Boro rules, we broke EFL rules. They reported it to the EFL, the EFL are the ones who action against it.

No idea where Boro have got all this ''we are making the decision'' from - they're not, it's nothing to do with them apart from them reporting it. Independent is the key word. This is why all their ITK's are nonsense too, none of them have got a clue as there is no one Boro close to it.

  • Like 5
obelisk

obelisk

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, johnnyboy said:

requires clubs to act towards each other with “the utmost good faith”

Gibbo's lot certainly guilty when it comes to that.

  • Like 1
die Mannyschaft

die Mannyschaft

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

I wonder if they know anything or are just doing it on purpose. Either way quite funny. 

Maybe we have a spy outside the EFL office in Preston. It does make you think do the lawyers already no.

Crab Lungs

Crab Lungs

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Saint_lambden said:

The full written findings would probably take quite a while to write-up, be reviewed for accuracy by all parties to ensure no factual errors, redaction of sensitive material etc. whereas given the time pressure here - the immediate verdict/sanctions needs to be communicated way beforehand. 

Ahhhh very enough. Thank you. Makes sense.

James G

James G

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, wild-saint said:

 

 

What exactly do they need to do? Look at a few pics of the lad hiding behind a tree, connect the dots to his linkedIn profile and then time stamp the photos against the start time of the training session. Then think how much did Professor plum in the garden with the Iphone saw in the 7 minutes of stretching / limbering up exercises before he was caught. 

Then they get out the magic 8 Ball and ask it if points is a fair punishment. FFS no wonder it takes a week to evaluate a VAR Decision

The silence by us and the time taken to investigate was the right thing to do 

Like their football team, they've tired themselves out before the end of the investigation 

  • Like 7
obelisk

obelisk

Posted
Posted

If Boro carry on training through the summer they might just be fit enough to sustain a challenge next season in the Championship.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

So it hasn’t started yet? :lol:

I think it is incredibly safe to assume it has started.

This isn’t a 17 year old panic writing an A level essay on a few cans of Relentless.

Writing and proofing the bloody judgement will take half a day in itself. I did genuinely think they were under promising and would get it done by Monday evening.

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Wurzel

Wurzel

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Same for us if we are kicked out, I’m sure

We can appeal which presumably would be immediate . Boro can't they can only go to court . 

Wurzel

Wurzel

Posted
Posted
Just now, Saint NL said:

So they need to wrap it up by 4:30pm tomorrow at the latest to give the finalists 96 hours notice.

96 hours notice. Perfect. That gives us a full day to legally spy on them

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suewhistle

suewhistle

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, markr27 said:

They showed two players arriving, one of which had to double check he'd locked his car.*

*It cannot be confirmed if a voice from a bush was heard, directly prompting him to make this move. 
 

Was the bush burning?

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Dr Who? said:

I can recommend this parking. Used it for the last playoff final. Easy to get in and easy to get out. We do head north though. 

so am I, onto the M1

Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Wurzel said:

We can appeal which presumably would be immediate . Boro can't they can only go to court . 

We wouldn't realistically be able to have our appeal heard until the full written report has been made available - after the final. 

So on that basis, the likelihood of Boro replacing us in the final on Saturday, with the looming possibility that our expulsion could be overturned later on appeal, would appear to be extremely slim to none.

Edited by Sheaf Saint
  • Like 1
S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted

How I see this going -

Rule 1 - Not acting in good faith, a fine. Not sure they can go much further above what they issued leeds with, as Leeds were charged based upon that existing rule.

Rule 2 - Spying close to the game, new rule put in place. This is where the unknowns are, my best guess is a points deduction or another fine. The points deduction would be suspended in nature.

Boro will be unhappy, they'll launch their own appeal via the courts (they can't appeal the EFL), and they'll try to sue us privately outside of EFL - so at that point, it's all about the money Gibson wants in compo rather than enforcing sporting sanctions as they can't do that. 

There is also a possibility of individual sporting bans, but these aren't decided by the EFL - this would go up to the FA/FIFA and a new disciplinary track, which will take time. 

So in my eyes the final goes ahead, the date won't change, the opponent won't change, but get ready for a summer of court battles.

  • Like 1
Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Cuddles said:

 

Looks so different to many years ago. I remember being taken there in the 80s and going in the 90s to watch them train on crappy open 'pitches' (that were basically fields) and with that horrible of brick structure changing room/stand. One thing Cortese got right was building that new training ground.  

  • Like 1
S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Crab Lungs said:

3.4m fine and 6 point deduction?

Worse case finance wise IMO, but if there is a point deduction it will be suspended. Not just for the EFL, but it will be applied in the EFL if we are caught doing it again. That's my best guess. They can't impose a sanction this summer as it would throw things into a bit of turmoil as the league is over, and equally keeping it suspended for when we next compete in the league isn't fair in my eyes. Caught doing it again, absolutely. But keeping that on hold in this context seems odd, given that if we go up we may stay in the PL for a decade.

250-500K for breaching the good faith rule, and then a bigger amount for breaching the new spying rule. 

Saint Garrett

Saint Garrett

Posted
Posted

Simply cannot see us getting a points deduction in the prem next season. It's already hard enough to stay up, why would the PL want to make it even less competitive ? No players would come to us, and it would just be a depressing season of losing every week, much like last season...

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