Obafemi or Adams?

[Nordic Saint]

They will both continue to improve under Ralph.  Obafemi has scored 2 goals and had 2 assists in his last 7 Premier League games, in spite of only limited minutes on the pitch,  while Adams has scored 2 goals in his last 5 league games. These have been crucial goals too, against teams like Man United and Man City. If they keep that rate going, they'll both be in double figures next season.

 

[mcbendy]

Look how much JWP and Bednarek have improved in their time at the club. Even Danny has improved within this season - he wasn't a fixture at the start of the season.

Armstrong struck me as someone with talent but lacking the fitness to play in this system when he first joined. He's improved, and he's now on the pace of the game for 70 minutes, generally.

In Che Adams I see someone with really good awareness. There have been times when his execution has let him down, but I think he's a bright guy and sees things. Like with Armstrong, I think it's not unexpected that moving up to this level has been challenging, especially given Saints all-action style. Our strikers are expected to press relentlessly when we haven't got the ball, then sprint when we have...

Che seems like quite a gentle character, and I think his confidence was knocked by the long run without scoring. I can easily imagine him kicking on now, particularly with another pre-season under his belt.

The issue for me with Obafemi isn't his ability as a finisher (though I think it's too early to judge this). The problem is that Ralph's system requires the strikers to press from the front, and MO can't (or doesn't). He jogs around in a tokenistic kind of way, but with nothing like the intensity of Ing or Long. It's either an attitude thing, or his body is better suited to fast sprints followed by a long rest... I wonder how he does on the bleep test...

I think Adams is far closer to being a starter in Ralph's system than Obafemi. Adams needs more fitness and more confidence, and perhaps also the extra sharpness to the PL pace which I think comes with experience. Obafemi needs to improve his attitude and press properly...

[Nordic Saint]

2 hours ago, mcbendy said:

Look how much JWP and Bednarek have improved in their time at the club. Even Danny has improved within this season - he wasn't a fixture at the start of the season.

Armstrong struck me as someone with talent but lacking the fitness to play in this system when he first joined. He's improved, and he's now on the pace of the game for 70 minutes, generally.

In Che Adams I see someone with really good awareness. There have been times when his execution has let him down, but I think he's a bright guy and sees things. Like with Armstrong, I think it's not unexpected that moving up to this level has been challenging, especially given Saints all-action style. Our strikers are expected to press relentlessly when we haven't got the ball, then sprint when we have...

Che seems like quite a gentle character, and I think his confidence was knocked by the long run without scoring. I can easily imagine him kicking on now, particularly with another pre-season under his belt.

The issue for me with Obafemi isn't his ability as a finisher (though I think it's too early to judge this). The problem is that Ralph's system requires the strikers to press from the front, and MO can't (or doesn't). He jogs around in a tokenistic kind of way, but with nothing like the intensity of Ing or Long. It's either an attitude thing, or his body is better suited to fast sprints followed by a long rest... I wonder how he does on the bleep test...

I think Adams is far closer to being a starter in Ralph's system than Obafemi. Adams needs more fitness and more confidence, and perhaps also the extra sharpness to the PL pace which I think comes with experience. Obafemi needs to improve his attitude and press properly...

I agree with your general positivity but I see the situation as more of an AND than an OR. Obafemi is 4 years younger than Adams so he is, understandably, a less developed all-round player at this stage. A striker who has just turned 20 this month, who has scored 2 goals and had 2 assists in his last 7 Premier League games, is like gold dust nowadays. Imagine how good he could be in 4 years' time.

Edited 24 July, 2020 by Nordic Saint

[John Boy Saint]

I would like to see them both get into a position where they both drag each other along in a friendly goal scoring competition, they are both relative youngsters one who has only known Premier league the other who has struggled a little to come to terms with it, which has prolonged the issue. Both are capable, players Ralph knows MO still needs polishing, MO makes no secret of the fact that he has Ralph in his ear and seemingly he accepts that as he is eager to be better. Anyone who has watched Che with their own eyes can see the guy has a footballing brain whilst his shooting boots have been misfiring somewhat, he does seem to have good vision on the pitch. Get the pair of them to click and it could be fun. I don't think that "click" is far away, against Chelsea Boxing Day when Obafemi scored if you look back at it as Michael was running at the goal, Che was ahead of him and rather than get involved if you watch Che you can see him backing away from Michaels run and in doing so taking the defender with him and making a bigger aperture in the Chelsea defence  for Obafemi to work with. Last Sunday Obafemi had the quickness of mind to see he was heading towards a cul de sac Adams was showing for it, Bingo! 

They are both capable enough, just get them both to knit together and we could be onto something, certainly take the pressure off Ings if they do.

[Lighthouse]

Surely it’s got to be Ings and Adams from now on. 11 goals from 9 games between the pair of them since the restart.

[trousers]

I'll go with whatever @Bananaman reckons...

[Saint_clark]

Adams is definitely winning me round but I still feel Obafemi will be a top half Prem striker capable of getting 10+ goals every season. Whether he suits our style of play is another matter. 

Perhaps a loan to the Championship and Nlundulu takes his place as 4th choice. 

[hypochondriac]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

Adams is definitely winning me round but I still feel Obafemi will be a top half Prem striker capable of getting 10+ goals every season. Whether he suits our style of play is another matter. 

Perhaps a loan to the Championship and Nlundulu takes his place as 4th choice. 

Interesting because I think obafemi has generally been underwhelming. 

[Saint_clark]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Interesting because I think obafemi has generally been underwhelming. 

So was Adams, with more game time, until he wasn't. 

[hypochondriac]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

So was Adams, with more game time, until he wasn't. 

Nope I always thought Adams looked pretty good and was just unlucky and hadn't had many chances. 

[verlaine1979]

Adams looks a lot more alive in the box after a few games, but his one-footedness is a concern. I know 99% of players have a dominant foot, but he seems absolutely allergic to touching the ball with his left.

[beatlesaint]

I still think Adams looks slow to react to situations in the penalty area in particular. On the flip side of that when he has the time to tee up a shot he puts some power into it.

Obafemi I think has better poaching instincts. I don’t think Adams would have scored the leveller at Old Trafford whereas I’m not sure Obafemi would have taken both those chances Adams put away today.

Swings and roundabouts, apples and oranges etc 😆

[skintsaint]

3 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

I don’t think Adams would have scored the leveller at Old Trafford

I think any of us here could have scored that. Stood a yard off the line when the corner was taken and bundled it in on the line 😄

[beatlesaint]

4 hours ago, skintsaint said:

I think any of us here could have scored that. Stood a yard off the line when the corner was taken and bundled it in on the line 😄

What I meant was I don’t think he would have been stood there to score it

[SNSUN]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/stephen-kenny-insists-no-axe-22570442.amp

 

I see Obafemi isn't too happy about not getting selected for ROI. Obviously he's fit enough currently. 

[Baird of the land]

On 24/08/2020 at 18:36, SNSUN said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/stephen-kenny-insists-no-axe-22570442.amp

 

I see Obafemi isn't too happy about not getting selected for ROI. Obviously he's fit enough currently. 

I can understand his frustration when parrott gets selected in front of him. Airing his frustration is less understandable.

[Saint Keef]

It's only a feeling, but I think those three goals at the end of the season will make a world of difference to Adams. My feeling is....he's going to bag a few this year.  If Ings carries on his form then 12-15 from Adams would be useful. 

[hypochondriac]

7 hours ago, Saint Keef said:

It's only a feeling, but I think those three goals at the end of the season will make a world of difference to Adams. My feeling is....he's going to bag a few this year.  If Ings carries on his form then 12-15 from Adams would be useful. 

A hatful from ings and 12-15 from Adams would be unreal and would most likely see us in Europe. I'm not sure I can see it myself but it would be amazing. 

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

A hatful from ings and 12-15 from Adams would be unreal and would most likely see us in Europe. I'm not sure I can see it myself but it would be amazing. 

I’d be very surprised if Ings has another season like last one. But 15+ goals from him and 10+ from Adams would be an excellent return. 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

I’d be very surprised if Ings has another season like last one. But 15+ goals from him and 10+ from Adams would be an excellent return. 

Yes that seems more realistic for me. If Adams achieves that then he will have been a success. 

[egg]

20 hours ago, Saint Keef said:

It's only a feeling, but I think those three goals at the end of the season will make a world of difference to Adams. My feeling is....he's going to bag a few this year.  If Ings carries on his form then 12-15 from Adams would be useful. 

Agreed. He's been working with someone outside the club to sort a few body niggles. Hopefully that, and the confidence he got from his end of season form, will mean he comes out firing. 

[verlaine1979]

Adams isn't unlucky, short on confidence or still adapting to the league. He's just a very poor finisher with below average anticipation in the box. Such a poor buy considering how broke we are.

[Harry_SFC]

2 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

Adams isn't unlucky, short on confidence or still adapting to the league. He's just a very poor finisher with below average anticipation in the box. Such a poor buy considering how broke we are.

His finishing has been poor at times but he brings more to the table than Obafemi and Long in my opinion. He held it up very well today and was one of the better players on the pitch. 

[wild-saint]

25 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

Adams isn't unlucky, short on confidence or still adapting to the league. He's just a very poor finisher with below average anticipation in the box. Such a poor buy considering how broke we are.

Hmm, I don’t actually agree with that. I think he is a decent player and we will see that this season. But hey what do I know.

[verlaine1979]

3/4 of his goals and the vast majority of the chances he's missed are just him smacking it as hard as he can. That's kicking, not finishing.

[Turkish]

12 hours ago, wild-saint said:

Hmm, I don’t actually agree with that. I think he is a decent player and we will see that this season. But hey what do I know.

I agree, he looked good at times yesterday. He's had keepers make great saves in both games this season, probably should have scored yesterday but his all round game was good, he's certainly come on a fair bit since he joined, reckon the goals will come, If he gets 10-12 this season that's a decent return and improvement, 

[Convict Colony]

Adams will score over 10 goals this season.

[wild-saint]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

I agree, he looked good at times yesterday. He's had keepers make great saves in both games this season, probably should have scored yesterday but his all round game was good, he's certainly come on a fair bit since he joined, reckon the goals will come, If he gets 10-12 this season that's a decent return and improvement, 

yeah the save from LLoris was a great save. I also think the way he had the composure to shift the ball left away from the defender to make room for a shot was decent although he should have put it away after creating the space. He held the ball up well and used brought the midfielders moving forward well. Overall i think Ings and Adams are starting to look a good partnership.  Miles better than the other options we have. 

 

[saintwbu]

He was a goal away from that probably being the best i’ve seen him play for us yesterday. I thought first half he was our best player, held it up brilliantly, played some great passes and got into good positions. Really glad that he seems to be finding his feet, he’s forced a few great saves this season, the goals will follow soon. 

[striker]

I really like what I see. Its amazing he doesn't have a couple of goals, just bad luck really. Attacking wise I think we look fine with Ings, Adams, Djenepo, and Armstrong. Of course we are a mess on defence.

[qwertyell]

5 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

Adams will score over 10 goals this season.

Our entire attack, minus Ings, won't manage 10 between them.

Adams is as poor a finisher as Long. It's not bad luck. He's just substandard.

[verlaine1979]

5 hours ago, striker said:

I really like what I see. Its amazing he doesn't have a couple of goals, just bad luck really. Attacking wise I think we look fine with Ings, Adams, Djenepo, and Armstrong. Of course we are a mess on defence.

Consistently hitting your shots close to the keeper isn't bad luck, it's bad finishing.

[Charlie Wayman]

The way to judge Adams is to consider what would have happened had those opportunities fallen to Ings. My guess is Ings would have scored them all whereas Adams literally seemed to just blast the ball without much thought as to where it would go. Another example, Ings would not have needed two touches to bring the ball under control and those milli-seconds matter when trying to catch goalies and defenders off balance. Ings goal demonstrated the difference in quality of these strikers perfectly.

[Convict Colony]

22 hours ago, qwertyell said:

Our entire attack, minus Ings, won't manage 10 between them.

Adams is as poor a finisher as Long. It's not bad luck. He's just substandard.

Just between Adams/Long and Obafemi as stikers they scored 9 last season in a team that was losing until end Nov, so you dont expect them to score more ? 

If you also included Djnepo/Adams and Redmond they scored 11 goals.

Our problem wont be offensive, it will be pressing the ball in a compact area due to our high line 

[Convict Colony]

16 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

The way to judge Adams is to consider what would have happened had those opportunities fallen to Ings. My guess is Ings would have scored them all whereas Adams literally seemed to just blast the ball without much thought as to where it would go. Another example, Ings would not have needed two touches to bring the ball under control and those milli-seconds matter when trying to catch goalies and defenders off balance. Ings goal demonstrated the difference in quality of these strikers perfectly.

Ings was the highest non penalty goalscorer in the country last year so not sure comparing second season player to him is quite fair at least he is hitting the target, I would suggest long normally doesnt (just to add Ings did miss that great chance at palace as well so he is also fallible)

I think we all need some perspective with our players, I want every player we have to be successful but we have to have a sense of realism.

Imagine if the 15mil for Che was infact:

- 40mil Joelinton - 2 goals - Newcastle

- 30mil Benteke - 2 goals - Palace

- 20mil Solanke - 3 goals - Bournemouth

Edited 22 September, 2020 by Convict Colony

[verlaine1979]

Happy that he got the assist yesterday, though it was a percentages cutback rather than actually aimed at Ings. Then a typical swing and a miss when presented with an opportunity to show some composure.

Also got severely outpaced by a Burnley CB when he had a clear yard head start.

Still not seeing anything to suggest he's anything more than a championship level player.

[qwertyell]

Adams is bang average. And not in a particularly useful way like Brett Ormerod or Paul Rideout. 

And he's not some youngster who's "guaranteed to improve". He turns 25 this season.

Heavy touch, no pace, doesn't score. Not a great combination for a striker. The amount of love he's getting for winning a few tussles in the centre circle is just weird - like all those people praising Shane Long for his hustle as he goes another 30 games without scoring...

If Ings gets injured, we're absolutely screwed. None of our other forwards will score 5+. 

[Harry_SFC]

5 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Happy that he got the assist yesterday, though it was a percentages cutback rather than actually aimed at Ings. Then a typical swing and a miss when presented with an opportunity to show some composure.

Also got severely outpaced by a Burnley CB when he had a clear yard head start.

Still not seeing anything to suggest he's anything more than a championship level player.

Who cares if it was a percentages cut back, it was a very good assist. No doubt you also thought his goal Vs Man City was a "fluke" and his goal against Sheffield United was "poor goalkeeping" 

[danjosaint]

Well Watkins was £30m and to be honest can't see him scoring many more than Che, he may get couple more but has a better supply line than us. Adams although not great will outscore Long/obafemi and seems to work a damn site harder than someone like Watkins,  guess this is why Ralph sticks with him, if he were single striker then yes not good enough but as a pair its about that partnership and I think its telling ings celebration with him after Burnley goal

[Lord Duckhunter]

11 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

 

Still not seeing anything to suggest he's anything more than a championship level player.

That’s funny because Alan Shearer said “they’re both good players”, when discussing Ings & his partnership on Saturday night. Still, what does he know about being a premier league level striker. 

[saintwbu]

One of the reasons Ings struggled earlier in his Saints career imo was his tendency to drop deep to get the ball. Adams has done this job really well in the first 4 games of the season, leaving Ings free to do what he was doing best last year, get on the shoulder and find space where he can. I think Adams has been getting better every week since his goal against City, I really like him. He doesn’t need to get 20 goals a season, nor is he going to, if Ings can do that bit then Adams can do the graft and hopefully chip in with 8 or so, that’d be a hell of a partnership for a club of our standing. 

Edited 28 September, 2020 by saintwbu

[Chez]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

That’s funny because Alan Shearer said “they’re both good players”, when discussing Ings & his partnership on Saturday night. Still, what does he know about being a premier league level striker. 

...and he might be right (certainly I like his all round game), but I don't think Shearer really knows if Che is a good player or not. It was a throwaway comment rather than an insightful and based on a lot of reseach-type comment. 

Genuine question, does it take one to know one?

[Chez]

27 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

One of the reasons Ings struggled earlier in his Saints career imo was his tendency to drop deep to get the ball. Adams has done this job really well in the first 4 games of the season, leaving Ings free to do what he was doing best last year, get on the shoulder and find space where he can. I think Adams has been getting better every week since his goal against City, I really like him. He doesn’t need to get 20 goals a season, nor is he going to, if Ings can do that bit then Adams can do the graft and hopefully chip in with 8 or so, that’d be a hell of a partnership for a club of our standing. 

Interesting observation. Certainly good for Ings to have someone to play off. Whether it ruins the balance of the side is less sure at this point.

I'd expect him to score more than 8 in 38 league games, if they are both playing up front. He should be scoring the chance again Palace and when in top form I'd expect more from the chance he had against Burnley. 

[verlaine1979]

7 hours ago, Harry_SFC said:

Who cares if it was a percentages cut back, it was a very good assist. No doubt you also thought his goal Vs Man City was a "fluke" and his goal against Sheffield United was "poor goalkeeping" 

My point was just that the assist was doing the basics well, not an example of great vision or understanding.

As for his goal against city, it wasn't a fluke, but he'll get one chance like that in his whole career. On balance I care a lot less about the rare worldly than the decent chances he spaffs away every week by having no composure.

[Toussaint]

Back to the original question, still Adams by a long long way. 

[SFC Forever]

Yep I go along with Adams as well

 

[Turkish]

Surely no debate now? Adams is becoming a good player and a great partner for Ings. If he could just improve his finishing a bit we have a very good striker on our hands. Still think he’ll score c10 this season which would be a decent return

Edited 18 October, 2020 by Turkish

[trousers]

On 01/07/2020 at 15:30, trousers said:

Adams

Never any doubt 

[Mr X]

39 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Surely no debate now? Adams is becoming a good player and a great partner for Ings. If he could just improve his finishing a bit we have a very good striker on our hands. Still think he’ll score c10 this season which would be a decent return

I agree after initially being very underwhelmed with him and thinking he just hasn't got it at all, we are starting to see what a decent player he could become, he has definitely improved his workrate, he definitely puts in the effort to chase balls down on the flanks and is starting to develop an understanding with ings, if RH can improve his decision making in the final third he could one day become a  15-20 goal striker.  His all round game is much better than obafemi's now i'd say.  Obafemi has better pace but what else?

[northam soul]

For all the slating of Chelsea defence for his goal you have to say his determination and effort in getting there made it possible.