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Obafemi and Adams.  Both of these players have lacked consistency and not really delivered for us.  Who can you see more potential in, & who should be given more chances? Seems RH is still questioning Obafemi's attitude & workrate and Che just does not seem to have any luck on his side & doesn't seem capable of stepping up 

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I think Adams has been unlucky as he is the backup to Ings and Obafemi is the back up to Long. We haven’t really seen Ings and Adams start much which I guess there must be a reason for but would like to see it given a go.

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Adams I feel has been very unlucky in that all his starts came at the start of the season when we were fannying around with 3-5-2 and our performances were properly crap. I’d start him for the rest of the season with Ings. He’s got the work rate of Long but seems to have a bit more about him as a player.

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When Adams gets one I expect him to get a few. I hope he will start now until the end of the season as I expect he would score 2/3 goals. That last burst through against watford was superb.

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Posted (edited)

I don't really know what Obafemi brings us? He seems to lack some basic skills at this level from what I've seen, he's quick no doubt...but he doesn't seem to be able to do much more.

Similar could be said of Adams, but he seems to have a bit more about him as a footballer.

Edited by S-Clarke
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IMO Adams should be started with Ings for the rest of the season. So far I feel that Adams has had bad luck rather than poor technique and game play, there is a goal scorer in there somewhere even in the PL. Long is a known quantity and with a 1 year contract extension already in place there is no need to 'trial' him.

I would also use KWP and Romeo more in the starting line up to look at their capabilities in various games with both top six and easier (on paper) opposition.

I didn't realise until I checked that we only made 2 substitutions v Watford, we seemed to have been one of the fitter teams since the resumption.

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In reality it is not a binary choice as the OP has presented it, we should discard them both, neither has stepped up to the plate.

We need more from a striker than pace and energy. Of the two, Adams seems to me to be the more skilful and gets his head up more than Obafemi.

Adams used to knock them in for fun at the Brummie's so what are the coaches doing or not doing that has caused his goal drought? Don't give me the Championship v PL gulf crap either, many of the games against sides in the bottom third are of a no better standard than a Championship match.

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I'm not sure Obafemi will ever cut the mustard as a professional footballer, Ralph has called his attitude into question on more than one occasion. He looked the most unfit player on the pitch since the lockdowm,  unless there is a dramatic change in attitude I see him slipping down the leagues. Adams for me.

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2 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't really know what Obafemi brings us? He seems to lack some basic skills at this level from what I've seen, he's quick no doubt...but he doesn't seem to be able to do much more.

Similar could be said of Adams, but he seems to have a bit more about him as a footballer.

In defence of Obafemi, he does seem to have an eye for a good defence-splitting pass, as we've seen from some of his assists so far. Unfortunately, he plays with his head down too often and doesn't always see it.

I thought Adams showed more attacking threat in his short cameo at the end of the Watford game than Obafemi has in any of the recent games, so I would go with him for the rest of the season. He's bound to break his duck sooner or later, but even if he doesn't, he brings more to the team in other ways than Obafemi does at this stage of his career.

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Obafemi is struggling under pressure at the moment, he only seems to play his best when we're already winning. But there's no doubt he has shown some great talent, when he's been on it he's shown good finishing, passing ability and the skill to dribble round people. 

Comparing the two is silly really as Adams has played a lot more senior football. I feel like Obafemi could easily be a top 10 striker.

This season alone according to transfermarkt, Adams has had 24 appearances and Obafemi has had 17.

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At times Adams has looked pretty terrible but then there are other moments like sunday when you think there's a player there. 

Obafemi, equally is still erratic. His pace is a fantastic asset and has scored a couple of goals.

So the boring answer at this point would be both. Neither has done enough to be third choice automatic pick.

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Impressions can give an inaccurate version of things, but that's all I've got to go on, and as such, it would be Adams.

Obafemi seems a bit too cock sure of himself. Having said that, to be a good striker, I think you have to have a touch of that. Adams seems more humble, but no less determined, and given that he is surely desperate to score his first, he is unselfish when he could be out to break that duck. He also is strong and holds the ball very well when hoofed out of the back in panic, which has relieved a lot of pressure. 

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2 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Obafemi is struggling under pressure at the moment, he only seems to play his best when we're already winning. But there's no doubt he has shown some great talent, when he's been on it he's shown good finishing, passing ability and the skill to dribble round people. 

Comparing the two is silly really as Adams has played a lot more senior football. I feel like Obafemi could easily be a top 10 striker.

This season alone according to transfermarkt, Adams has had 24 appearances and Obafemi has had 17.

I agree, Adams is 4 years older than Obafemi who is 19. Certainly Obafemi hasn't had any superb performances but he is in a different stage of his development than Adams and has shown flashes of potential - the goal against Chelsea being an obvious standout.  I would hope that in 4 years Obafemi has improved his control and decision making to become a far better player - I'm not totally convinced that he will make it as a premiership player, but I think he deserves to continue his development and he has some inherent attributes that will help his progression. Let's not forget that JWP has been written off by many and it is only the last two years when he has been more widely accepted as a premiership quality footballer. He is 26 later this year - sometimes it takes time to develop (and to be accepted by the Saints forum :-) ). 

Adams played really well against Watford when he came on; but as I have said previously, he is poor in the air and can't kick with his left foot. His 20+ goals for Birmingham last year (with one goal-line tap-in with his left) were all scored with his right foot. Premiership defenders will suss this out very quickly. It isn't about getting a goal and going on a scoring streak; he isn't a bad player but has fundamental weaknesses which will limit his potential. We were linked with an Arsenal youth player earlier this week; watch his video and the instinctive way he finishes with either foot, I wish Adams could demonstrate some of that potential. 

It's that word potential; I think that Obafemi has the greater potential than Adams, even though Adams might actually contribute more than him at the current time. Judging by the choices of Ralph I suspect that Saints believe that it is better to invest more in Obafemi than Adams due to the increased potential. Only time will tell if that is the right decision, but I think that it sometimes explains the bias towards Obafemi over Adams. 

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Adams .....all day long !....He has proven he can score goals ( championship )  Should be paired with Ings because if those two click we could be onto a winner !  Obefemi is young and a bit raw but hopefully will come good

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1 hour ago, gammon cheeks said:

Adams .....all day long !....He has proven he can score goals ( championship )  Should be paired with Ings because if those two click we could be onto a winner !  Obefemi is young and a bit raw but hopefully will come good

Of the two, Obafemi is the only one that's actually got goals in the Premier League so your analysis is a little strange. 

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Posted (edited)

Neither have really stood out for me so far. Both have shown glimpses of good play. So I can only go by my gut feeling at this moment. And that would be Adams. I would like to see him play after scoring a goal and being released from that hampering mindset. 

 

Long term though, I think both, could, if they keep applying and pushing themselves, become high quality players. 

Edited by Behind Enemy Lines
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6 hours ago, WALK DMC said:

I agree, Adams is 4 years older than Obafemi who is 19. Certainly Obafemi hasn't had any superb performances but he is in a different stage of his development than Adams and has shown flashes of potential - the goal against Chelsea being an obvious standout.  I would hope that in 4 years Obafemi has improved his control and decision making to become a far better player - I'm not totally convinced that he will make it as a premiership player, but I think he deserves to continue his development and he has some inherent attributes that will help his progression. Let's not forget that JWP has been written off by many and it is only the last two years when he has been more widely accepted as a premiership quality footballer. He is 26 later this year - sometimes it takes time to develop (and to be accepted by the Saints forum 🙂 ). 

Adams played really well against Watford when he came on; but as I have said previously, he is poor in the air and can't kick with his left foot. His 20+ goals for Birmingham last year (with one goal-line tap-in with his left) were all scored with his right foot. Premiership defenders will suss this out very quickly. It isn't about getting a goal and going on a scoring streak; he isn't a bad player but has fundamental weaknesses which will limit his potential. We were linked with an Arsenal youth player earlier this week; watch his video and the instinctive way he finishes with either foot, I wish Adams could demonstrate some of that potential. 

It's that word potential; I think that Obafemi has the greater potential than Adams, even though Adams might actually contribute more than him at the current time. Judging by the choices of Ralph I suspect that Saints believe that it is better to invest more in Obafemi than Adams due to the increased potential. Only time will tell if that is the right decision, but I think that it sometimes explains the bias towards Obafemi over Adams. 

This.

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13 hours ago, Cartman said:

His 20+ goals for Birmingham last year (with one goal-line tap-in with his left) were all scored with his right foot

Agree generally with what you say, but just to add - Ings is very much right footed and hasn't stopped him this season.

 

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Posted (edited)

I worry for Obafemi's professionalism. Clearly able and at times looks very sharp, others he doesn't seem at the races. Couple this with public calls from Ralph for him to increase his workload.... Concerning, however Ralph keeps sticking by him and he does keep getting opportunities. He is also so very young.

There has been nothing of that sort with Ché, just a lot of frustration that he hasn't yet hit full, or in terms of goalscoring, any stride. 

I am inclined to pick Ché given the choice.... But there is clear potential in them both.

Edited by Colinjb
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4 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Agree generally with what you say, but just to add - Ings is very much right footed and hasn't stopped him this season.

 

Fair point.  Ings definitely has a preference for his right foot, but he can use the left when needed and has scored a couple of cracking goals with his left foot this season (Villa Away & Spurs Home), he also scores the odd goal with his head too. Watch Adams play, he actively puts his body in strange positions to take everything on his right - I first noticed it live in the first game against Burnley away when he took an early chance on his right when his left was the more natural. I hoped it might be coached out of him by now, and he actually had a left foot shot before the Covid break, but it still looks a fundamental weakness for his ongoing development.  

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Posted (edited)

Obefemi will only be 20 in a couple of days, so plenty of time for him to blossom, however, if judged right now, on what we have seen then you'd have to say that his all round game is a little limited. I also don't see a player offering high work rate. He may have a laid back style, but that shouldn't prevent him getting round the pitch to press opponents a bit more - especially as that's our tactic. If you are not doing that at 19, just in the first team, you probably never will.

His first touch isn't great. The number of times he receives a throw in and immediately turns over possession is not good. I don't think he holds the ball up well enough or provides enough as a target man. Those two areas might be something he can improve on, but if your touch is not great at 19, is it ever going to be?

Because of that he doesn't look like a top flight player. However, the game is not always about neat and tidy feet and deft touch, there is still room for pace, power and most importantly finishing. He does look strong for his age and reasonably sharp, although I'm not so sure he's lightning quick and his finishing, well, from what we have seen so far it is a bit hit and miss. I think we need a larger number of games to assess that and i am mindful of a James Beattie struggling to notch before eventually becoming a league leader. 

He has two more years on his contract, and I suspect plenty of opportunities to  show what he can do.

 

Edited by Chez
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Che also has his birthday coming up and will be 24, which for me is a footballers prime. As with Michael, I really want him to succeed, but he has to grasp opportunities and dare I say it be a little more greedy. I know many strikers get long runs in the team without needing to score, but I am not sure he will get a run of 8 or 9 starts again for us unless there is a goal or two in there. 

I think he was a tad unlucky to drop dow the pecking order and when he returned his confidence looked shot. The break has done him good and he looks bright again. I like his all round game. He is strong with his back to goal and a good outlet when we are under pressure. He has a decent touch and I think he strikes the ball well and can see him scoring a hatful of goals again..for someone, at some point. He just needs to get into a grove. At Brum he struggled for about a year or more and then (with a change of manager) it all seemed to click into place and pretty much everything the touched went in. I think it got to the point when he was just so confident that he only needed one chance. That is the type of player we need. We just have to get him back to that frame of mind. Lets hope he just needed time to settle and we reap the benefits next season.

A proven championship goalscorer, not in a side, is going to be high demand from championship sides. Not sure many will be able to afford him next season though. I think he will stay. 

 

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1 hour ago, Chez said:

Obefemi will only be 20 in a couple of days, so plenty of time for him to blossom, however, if judged right now, on what we have seen then you'd have to say that his all round game is a little limited. I also don't see a player offering high work rate. He may have a laid back style, but that shouldn't prevent him getting round the pitch to press opponents a bit more - especially as that's our tactic. If you are not doing that at 19, just in the first team, you probably never will.

His first touch isn't great. The number of times he receives a throw in and immediately turns over possession is not good. I don't think he holds the ball up well enough or provides enough as a target man. Those two areas might be something he can improve on, but if your touch is not great at 19, is it ever going to be?

Because of that he doesn't look like a top flight player. However, the game is not always about neat and tidy feet and deft touch, there is still room for pace, power and most importantly finishing. He does look strong for his age and reasonably sharp, although I'm not so sure he's lightning quick and his finishing, well, from what we have seen so far it is a bit hit and miss. I think we need a larger number of games to assess that and i am mindful of a James Beattie struggling to notch before eventually becoming a league leader. 

He has two more years on his contract, and I suspect plenty of opportunities to  show what he can do.

 

Really excellent and insightful analysis 

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Really don't see what Obafemi offers, beyond lolloping around. Poor in the air. Poor distribution. Poor finishing (except once). Doesn't put himself about. 

Adams is twice the player.

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47 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

They're both ropey finishers from what I've seen. Both have a tendency to scuff chances right at the keeper.

Tbf Adams has forced a lot of keepers into good saves , I don't think I've ever wanted someone to score a goal for us more than him .

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I reckon we will sell Adams in the summer. He will want a move as has barely played for 8 months and Leeds will be back for him.

Ralph clearly prefers the other three strikers so he is a saleable asset given how little he plays.

Personally I still think he can be good for us. Was at Sheff Utd and his allround game was excellent and he was so unlucky in that game not to score. But reality is since around that time he has been on the edges.

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15 minutes ago, Dusic said:

I reckon we will sell Adams in the summer. He will want a move as has barely played for 8 months and Leeds will be back for him.

Ralph clearly prefers the other three strikers so he is a saleable asset given how little he plays.

Personally I still think he can be good for us. Was at Sheff Utd and his allround game was excellent and he was so unlucky in that game not to score. But reality is since around that time he has been on the edges.

Bit like the Targett sale last season?

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Probably was a good bit of business though, Targett seems to have had a few problems with hamstrings, went again the other day. IIRC he tore it badly v Burnley under Puel.

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33 minutes ago, Dusic said:

I reckon we will sell Adams in the summer. He will want a move as has barely played for 8 months and Leeds will be back for him.

Ralph clearly prefers the other three strikers so he is a saleable asset given how little he plays.

Personally I still think he can be good for us. Was at Sheff Utd and his allround game was excellent and he was so unlucky in that game not to score. But reality is since around that time he has been on the edges.

I'd be surprised if they are if promoted.

Agree with you that Adams still has something to offer and think he's worth persevering with.

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When it comes to potential,  and you don't pick a team on potential Obefemi all day long. For me Adams could be another Brett Ormerod. Nothing wrong with that, he was a good player and a great partner to James Beattie. On the other hand, and you would have to be a very old supporter to even begin to understand what I am getting at, Obefemi reminds me of a cross between a young Martin Chivers and a young Mike Channon. Yes he's clumsy, naive and has poor games , as they did but look at the pace, look at the strength and power he will gain as he gets older, look at the flashes of skill , and he is not afraid to score goals in the premier league.

Of course he may not reach his potential and Adams might become the better player. He also reminds me of George Lawrence, a player with all the attributes but not the coordination to become a top player, but Obefemi does have that potential.

 

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On 02/07/2020 at 13:41, Chez said:

Che also has his birthday coming up and will be 24, which for me is a footballers prime. As with Michael, I really want him to succeed, but he has to grasp opportunities and dare I say it be a little more greedy. I know many strikers get long runs in the team without needing to score, but I am not sure he will get a run of 8 or 9 starts again for us unless there is a goal or two in there. 

I think he was a tad unlucky to drop dow the pecking order and when he returned his confidence looked shot. The break has done him good and he looks bright again. I like his all round game. He is strong with his back to goal and a good outlet when we are under pressure. He has a decent touch and I think he strikes the ball well and can see him scoring a hatful of goals again..for someone, at some point. He just needs to get into a grove. At Brum he struggled for about a year or more and then (with a change of manager) it all seemed to click into place and pretty much everything the touched went in. I think it got to the point when he was just so confident that he only needed one chance. That is the type of player we need. We just have to get him back to that frame of mind. Lets hope he just needed time to settle and we reap the benefits next season.

A proven championship goalscorer, not in a side, is going to be high demand from championship sides. Not sure many will be able to afford him next season though. I think he will stay. 

 

Very good summary, highlighting most of the reasons why i'd have Adams over Obafemi. He's not huge but clearly a very strong lad who can find a pass and hold up play well - a bit reminiscent of Kevin Davies in that regard.  If he finds his scoring boots in this league I think we will have some player on our hands. 

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31 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Adams without hesitation. I have yet to see what the fuss is about Obefemi

Up until the City game surely you had yet to see what the fuss was with him? 

It's not an either or scenario anyway, we'll be keeping both (possibly loaning Obafemi out, but only if we sign another striker - he gets a lot of gametime). 

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15 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Up until the City game surely you had yet to see what the fuss was with him? 

It's not an either or scenario anyway, we'll be keeping both (possibly loaning Obafemi out, but only if we sign another striker - he gets a lot of gametime). 

To be fair to me, I had mentioned and noticed 2 or 3 occasions where you could see his potential. The clever flick to set Nathan away from the bye line away to Chelsea or Leicester ( I cant remember what game now)and he did another again I cant recall when. He was also very unlucky early in the season where there was a brilliant reflex save that stopped him scoring.

So I do believe I have been consistent in my opinion 

 

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17 minutes ago, OldNick said:

To be fair to me, I had mentioned and noticed 2 or 3 occasions where you could see his potential. The clever flick to set Nathan away from the bye line away to Chelsea or Leicester ( I cant remember what game now)and he did another again I cant recall when. He was also very unlucky early in the season where there was a brilliant reflex save that stopped him scoring.

So I do believe I have been consistent in my opinion 

 

Away to Chelsea was also a great example of Obafemi showing what he could potentially do...that flick you talk about is in this game but funnily enough, it's Obafemi that does it not Adams. 

 

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Obafemi - Adams is not good enough.  Thought he had another very poor game today and he does not offer enough of a goal threat.

Don;t get the love-in with Adams.  He has been poor.

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Adans wouldn’t have been where Obafemi was to equalise. 
 

The Man City wonder goal aside I still think Obafemi has the potential to be decent and will be the better of the two.

Edited by beatlesaint
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6 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Adams for me, I just think he’s better and with a bit of luck would have half a dozen goals.

Even though we've literally seen Obafemi do everything better than Adams and at a younger age? He links up better, gets assists and can put it in the net. 

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Thought this would be hijacked with everyone saying Obafemi.

I would have Adams starting most weeks using Obafemi as a super sub, thus moving on from Long.

Obafemi needs a loan spell in the championship IMO, 3-6 months of solid regular football and I think he will become a good player, he's shown glimpses but has also been awful and not in games at all.

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I think Adams is still the better player. Great at the pressing side of the game, got some nice chances for us by outmuscling Pogba a couple of times and AWB. Needs to get his eye in shooting-wise but his pace and power are starting to show and will be excellent assets going forward. I like Obafemi but he doesn't have the same impact off the ball Che does.

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