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16 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Even though we've literally seen Obafemi do everything better than Adams and at a younger age? He links up better, gets assists and can put it in the net. 

he doesn't link up better IMO. Just an opinion though. Both need to do more next season than this. Lets hope they both do. It would be great to have real competition and for us to feel confident they will all score when the chance comes their way.

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It's good to see Adams getting a little run, but I think he let himself down tonight and showed why people have doubts over him. There's no question that he has physical attributes such as pace/power etc, but he doesn't seem to be very technical and his decision making with the ball leaves a lot to be desired.

Whilst the ball did stick to him when he held it up, his ability to then lay it off and bring others in was somewhat lacking. He just seems to lack that bit of technique for me.

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Think obafemi has more about him. Hopefully he’s looking at the likes of long and ings and develops his all round game to make the most of his talent. Don’t mind Adams as an option unless someone offers us silly money for him in the summer.

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Adams wasn’t too good tonight but I prefer him to Obafemi.

Hopefully with his goal Obafemi gets a confidence boost and both players push each other to be better. Would love to see one of them go on a goalscoting run because although we have a  midfield that chips in with goals, Ings is the only forward scoring regularly.

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3 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Scoring goals at a Premier League level with very little professional experience is what most of the fuss is.

3 to 1 is hardly night and day as a scoring comparison. I think Adams plays with more intelligence, works hard and unlike Long works smart. He links up well with Ings and has a decent touch. Both will get chances but I’d be starting with Adams.

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53 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Adams for me, I just think he’s better and with a bit of luck would have half a dozen goals.

Appreciate your opinion which you’re entitled to, but I am curious to know why you think he is better given Obafemi has a better goals per minute return, and tally for the season so far.

With a bit of luck he might have half a dozen goals, but surely you can’t choose a player on what they might achieve “with a bit of luck” over one that has actually achieved things for the team.

But for the fluke against City we’d still be talking about a player with zero premier league goals, but more senior football experience that Obafemi.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

Appreciate your opinion which you’re entitled to, but I am curious to know why you think he is better given Obafemi has a better goals per minute return, and tally for the season so far.

With a bit of luck he might have half a dozen goals, but surely you can’t choose a player on what they might achieve “with a bit of luck” over one that has actually achieved things for the team.

But for the fluke against City we’d still be talking about a player with zero premier league goals, but more senior football experience that Obafemi.

 

 

The fluke against City? 

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37 minutes ago, Chez said:

he doesn't link up better IMO. Just an opinion though. Both need to do more next season than this. Lets hope they both do. It would be great to have real competition and for us to feel confident they will all score when the chance comes their way.

He's shown that he links up better, in his general play and the assists he's got with not simple passes. Adams on the other hand has repeatedly over hit passes, taken the wrong option, not made the run when players were about to play it into space...he just doesn't look on the same frequency as the rest of the team. 

5 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

3 to 1 is hardly night and day as a scoring comparison. I think Adams plays with more intelligence, works hard and unlike Long works smart. He links up well with Ings and has a decent touch. Both will get chances but I’d be starting with Adams.

I completely disagree that he's shown more intelligence and works smart compared to Long. When Long came on today he won the flick on in the air and won us freekicks on a couple of occasions, and as I already said Adams doesn't seem to make intelligent runs or know where/when his teammates are going to pass it. 

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8 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

But for the fluke against City we’d still be talking about a player with zero premier league goals.

Can you talk us through how it was a fluke? It was clearly his intention to do exactly what he did.

Edited by Matthew Le God
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Adams for me. Its not a question of whos the better player....its more about who compliments Ings the best because hes our focal point. Chelsea game aside, Obafemi hasnt really taken his chances as a starter. Adams deserves a run to the end of the season.  Its also not a good sign when a manager highlights a young players application/commitment the way Ralph has with Obafemi. He mentioned how tough he is on him again in the post match interview

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Get the reactions and on paper Adams should be miles ahead, but you have a forward mainly to get goals and Obi seems to have a knack of getting them even if his technique and fitness might be questionable at times. I am really torn over this - I so much want Adams to succeed and yet he fails time and again. I think Obi is a bit like a cheeky school boy and tries to get away with minimum effort but yet has more end product - so reminds me of Ted McDougall  - did F'all all game but give it to him in the box and he scores!

Need someone to get Obi in a better frame - and that's not Ralph - maybe Le God? Same mentality 

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Not persuaded by either. Weak spot for us is that whoever partners Ings is maybe okay, but not at all inspiring. I might even play redmond up front rather than either Adams or Obafemi.

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Should be judged by their recent performance to be fair. As Obafemi has scored the equalizer today, he should be selected for the next match. If Obafemi performes poorly next match like Adam today, he should then return to the bench. 

Edited by HKsaint
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7 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Can you talk us through how it was a fluke? It was clearly his intention to do exactly what he did.

Because Edison thinks he is Manuel Neuer and was caught off his line in a way pretty much no other keeper would, he got lucky that he basically had an open goal to shoot at.

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4 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

Because Edison thinks he is Manuel Neuer and was caught off his line in a way pretty much no other keeper would, he got lucky that he basically had an open goal to shoot at.

Stirling's 3rd goal the other night is a great example of a fluke. Looking up and lobbing the keeper from 40 yards isn't a fluke. 🥱

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23 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

Because Edison thinks he is Manuel Neuer and was caught off his line in a way pretty much no other keeper would, he got lucky that he basically had an open goal to shoot at.

I think you're confused about what a fluke is. 

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Adams pressed well last night, his passing was good, and was key to our bright start / continued pressing in the second half. Ings and Adams were both well marshalled by the United defence, so they both put a good shift in in other areas. Look at how deep Adams and Ings were coming to receive the ball.

Adams is a starter for me. Obafemi has shown he has a knack for banging in a goal when needed, and will learn the rest. Good options to have, eh? 

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1 hour ago, bpsaint said:

Because Edison thinks he is Manuel Neuer and was caught off his line in a way pretty much no other keeper would, he got lucky that he basically had an open goal to shoot at.

That doesn't make it a 'fluke'. It was a deliberate attempt to score in exactly the way he intended. By definition that is not a fluke!

An example of a fluke is when a winger puts in a cross and mishits it so it scores.

Edited by Matthew Le God
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7 hours ago, SaintBobby said:

... Weak spot for us is that whoever partners Ings is maybe okay, but not at all inspiring...

The "weak spot" for me is that if Ings got injured we have no one who could genuinely replace him and get the same volume of goals. Imagine this season with no Ings, just Adams + Long + Oba, and we'd be in a relegation fight with three or four others.

I don't think either of them are good enough really, but we've not got a pot to piss in so have to hope they come good or someone like Tella does.

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3 hours ago, bpsaint said:

Because Edison thinks he is Manuel Neuer and was caught off his line in a way pretty much no other keeper would, he got lucky that he basically had an open goal to shoot at.

It was great goal, well executed. Adams spotted the opportunity and took it well. Why denigrate it?

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Adams is a good player but not Premiership standard as proven by his goal tally and that's the way he should be judged. KWP fired a cross late on across goal and any one of the MU forwards would have anticipated it and connected. Adams just ball watched.

Obafemi has a bit more about him in front of goal but needs to broaden his game to be a regular starter.  

I'd play Obafemi for the remaining games this season. 

 

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I rate both players. Criticism of Obafemi has been ridiculous recently - the lad has just turned 20 and will become a good PL player in a few years time.

Seen plenty of hate on twitter in the past few weeks saying we should sell him in the summer  🤡

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8 hours ago, SaintBobby said:

Not persuaded by either. Weak spot for us is that whoever partners Ings is maybe okay, but not at all inspiring. I might even play redmond up front rather than either Adams or Obafemi.

Yeah, I agree.

Massive single point of failure right there. We've got no one I have confidence in who could hit more than 5/6 goals in a season up front apart from Ings.

I'd ditch one of them in the summer (Adams or Obafemi - even a loan) and bring in a much higher quality player to play alongside Ings and offer a genuine goal threat if Ings is missing.

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9 hours ago, Red said:

Get the reactions and on paper Adams should be miles ahead, but you have a forward mainly to get goals and Obi seems to have a knack of getting them even if his technique and fitness might be questionable at times. I am really torn over this - I so much want Adams to succeed and yet he fails time and again. I think Obi is a bit like a cheeky school boy and tries to get away with minimum effort but yet has more end product - so reminds me of Ted McDougall  - did F'all all game but give it to him in the box and he scores!

Need someone to get Obi in a better frame - and that's not Ralph - maybe Le God? Same mentality 

I wouldn't mention Obafemi in comparison to either. Ted MacDougall was a goalscorer throughout his career, MLT could give the impression of being casual at times but had sublime skills that very few players come near.

 

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11 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I'd ditch one of them in the summer 

Ditch? Obafemi only turned 20 a couple of weeks ago, if he hadn't played a first team game and was still with the under 23s people wouldn't be calling for him to be sold.

How many 19/20 year old strikers are getting gametime in the Premier League? He is already ahead of many of his age group peers in that regard.

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5 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Ditch? Obafemi only turned 20 a couple of weeks ago, if he hadn't played a first team game and was still with the under 23s people wouldn't be calling for him to be sold.

How many 19/20 year old strikers are getting gametime in the Premier League? He is already ahead of many of his age group peers in that regard.

I did say loan next to Obafami.

Give him a season playing regular football down in the Championship, could do him wonders.

We need 4 first team additions in the summer, in my opinion. I know we won't get them because finance dictates and all that, but...

First choice RB (whether that's KWP or not, still not 100% convinced.)

First choice CB with pace/power

First choice Winger to come in on the right side.

Another striker, different to what we have - bit more of a focal point centre forward, could either play with Ings or give us another option.

A nice to have would be a power CM to play alongside JWP, but I can't see us getting a CM under any situation - I can see us keeping Reed and Smallbone developing further.

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TBH Neither has been outstanding.  They're OK but I don't think either are going to have stellar careers at the very top level.  If we let one or both of them go then I'd be doubtful it would be something we might later regret.  One option no one seems to talk about is maybe moving Redmond back into a more of a central striker role - seemed to do OK there last season and would give a bit more opportunity for Djenepo (if he gets fit again).

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Its dificult to judge I think.

Adams seems to be the better team player but Obagemi seems to be the better goalscorer. 

hopefully both can improve and become good players for us.

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6 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I did say loan next to Obafami.

Give him a season playing regular football down in the Championship, could do him wonders.

We need 4 first team additions in the summer, in my opinion. I know we won't get them because finance dictates and all that, but...

First choice RB (whether that's KWP or not, still not 100% convinced.)

First choice CB with pace/power

First choice Winger to come in on the right side.

Another striker, different to what we have - bit more of a focal point centre forward, could either play with Ings or give us another option.

A nice to have would be a power CM to play alongside JWP, but I can't see us getting a CM under any situation - I can see us keeping Reed and Smallbone developing further.

I don't know why you want to replace Armstrong on the right, especially if the replacement is going to be a Nathan Redmond type who cuts back all the time.

Especially as Armstrong has proven himself capable of getting goals. 

Edited by Saint_clark
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9 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Yeah, I agree.

Massive single point of failure right there. We've got no one I have confidence in who could hit more than 5/6 goals in a season up front apart from Ings.

I'd ditch one of them in the summer (Adams or Obafemi - even a loan) and bring in a much higher quality player to play alongside Ings and offer a genuine goal threat if Ings is missing.

This. If Ings gets a significant injury next year we'll be f***ed if we only have the current options up front.

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My one fear this season has been that of seeing Danny get seriously crocked. For me we have no other forward that looks or is capable of doing enough to keep us up. We can not afford the luxury of keeping Long, Adams and Obafemi without another option. If none can score enough goals or help make them we should unload and replace.

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How many teams outside the top 6 have a 20 goal a season striker AND plenty of goals throughout the team? Armstrong and Ward Prowse have contributed a decent amount, Redmond has some work to do but could contribute if he actually attacked the defence more and kept his shots down, and Djenepo has shown he can score from range and in the box. 

Another word on Obafemi....he's played a total of 615 minutes this season which is just under 7 full games, and has 3 goals. That equates to somewhere between 15 and 20 goals a season if he was first choice alongside Ings...

Edited by Saint_clark
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57 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

How many teams outside the top 6 have a 20 goal a season striker AND plenty of goals throughout the team? Armstrong and Ward Prowse have contributed a decent amount, Redmond has some work to do but could contribute if he actually attacked the defence more and kept his shots down, and Djenepo has shown he can score from range and in the box. 

Another word on Obafemi....he's played a total of 615 minutes this season which is just under 7 full games, and has 3 goals. That equates to somewhere between 15 and 20 goals a season if he was first choice alongside Ings...

I’m pretty sure a small number of people were saying the same about Carrillo before we signed him. If MO was indeed capable of that, we’d be playing him every game and Long and Adams wouldn’t get a sniff. You can’t extrapolate such a small sample.

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11 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I’m pretty sure a small number of people were saying the same about Carrillo before we signed him. If MO was indeed capable of that, we’d be playing him every game and Long and Adams wouldn’t get a sniff. You can’t extrapolate such a small sample.

Except Carrillo was doing it in a weaker league and at a much more experienced age. 

I agree he probably wouldn't be getting that exact sort of return, but he would easily be the 10+ goal a season back up striker we require IMO. 

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Combined nicely for today's game ender. Think Adams will score more readily in a two up top and with a proper run of game time. Can't help feeling a season loan of regular Championship football would do the world of good for Obafemi but it would need us to find an alternate 4th striker.

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Obafemi and Adams are very different players. MO has electric pace, great strength and a low center of gravity, and knows how to score. He tends to drift out of the game too much, and doesn't read the game well and make enough good runs, but he's young! He's improving and has great promise. Adams had some bad luck failing to score, and it affected his confidence, but he holds the ball up well, has an eye for a good pass, works damned hard, and now that he has finally got a couple of goals I think he could be a real asset next season. Keep them both, partner Adams with Ings, bring Obafemi on to run at tired defense would be my strategy ... but what do I know?;)

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I'm still in the Adams camp. Just a bit frustrating sometimes when he wants an extra second or extra touch when an instinctive snap shot would make all the difference. Perhaps that's just down to confidence and now that he's got the zero goals monkey off his back he'll start to improve his 'automatism'

Edited by trousers
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Adams for me. Fits better into the system at the moment because Obafemi often goes to sleep and can't be trusted to execute the press properly. People should remember that this is as important to Ralph as the goals they score. 

That's not to say it can't be coached into him and when he's 24 he could well be a better player than Adams is now. 

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It's good to see Adams start to make the most of his opportunities on the pitch, I'm not sure why it's taken him so long to settle? He's still raw in certain area's and certainly needs to improve technical area's of his game.

I'd loan out Obafemi and bring in another striker to complement both Ings and Adams.

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Adams still looks awkward at times. There was an earlier chance where he got his posture all mucked up. Worth persevering with though.

Don't see the value in loaning Obafemi when he is scoring for us. Spending money or developing somebody else's player who may turn out to be a Danso.

There's plenty of other positions where we actually need to spend our limited resources.

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Lots of people overlook that for most of this season Obafemi was 19 years old. It was only the lockdown which meant he played beyond being a teenager.

When Adams was Obafemi's current age he was playing in League One having recently moved from non League football.

I'm not saying Obafemi is currently better than Adams, but Obafemi gets a lot of stick for someone who could still play for the under 23 team for the next few years. He has already shown as a back-up striker he can be useful at this level. For example he deserves some credit for the assist today.

Edited by Matthew Le God
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Excuse the tangential thought, but does anyone have any insight into what Ralph thinks of Dan N'Lundulu? @LeG?

He was my bet for 'academy breakthrough' player this season but I think he's only made the first team bench once this season? (That said, he was out injured for a fair portion of the season IIRC?)

From what I've seen of him in the U23s, he seems to have the attributes that Ralph likes to see in a striker.

Edit: just spotted he's a year older than Obefemi so perhaps Ralph doesn't rate him as much

Edited by trousers
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I think both can be useful players and seeing as we gave Long a new contract I don't think this is an area where we are looking to add anyone.

Let's hope Ings can help bring them both on. They could be a cracking partnership themselves in a few years.

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