Leeds 3-0 Saints - Match Thread

[Wade Garrett]

6 minutes ago, Ed Rooney said:

Nonsense, we play two defensive midfielders, is there a need for that. Stop trying to overcomplicate things 
 

That is a big issue for me.  JWP really needs to be playing further up the pitch.

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, Ed Rooney said:

Nonsense, we play two defensive midfielders, is there a need for that. Stop trying to overcomplicate things 
 

I’m not the one Suggesting we move an attacking midfielder into a defensive midfield role, but don’t because he’s not defensive, and move a midfielder from his position to right back and change formation to accommodate all this hoping it’ll work because we don’t know it won’t unless we try it, sounds like you’re over complicating things to me.

[Fan The Flames]

Is it just me that thinks we weren't that bad, that it wasn't a three nil game?

[Turkish]

Just now, Harry_SFC said:

Every time Armstrong has played in CM for us we have leaked goals left, right and centre. He is very good in the number 10 role but he isn't good enough defensively to play any deeper. 

It’s not he’s not good enough, he just isn’t a defensive midfielder, much like Kevin De Bruyne isn’t. Unlike some on here being a midfield player doesn’t mean each of them all have exactly the same qualities and can play any midfield position.

[Ed Rooney]

Just now, Turkish said:

I’m not the one Suggesting we move an attacking midfielder into a defensive midfield role, but don’t because he’s not defensive, and move a midfielder from his position to right back and change formation to accommodate all this hoping it’ll work because we don’t know it won’t unless we try it, sounds like you’re over complicating things to me.

I didn’t suggest that at all, the question was who can play centre midfield. My answer was Armstrong. Romeu was on the pitch, did we need another defensive midfielder... full backs were not getting forward so did we need 2 defensive midfielders. Nothing was being created, ball wasn’t moving quickly enough to forward areas. Did we need 2 defensive midfielders 

[Harry_SFC]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

It’s not he’s not good enough, he just isn’t a defensive midfielder, much like Kevin De Bruyne isn’t. Unlike some on here being a midfield player doesn’t mean each of them all have exactly the same qualities and can play any midfield position.

Very true. Some rather odd suggestions being put forward here. Not surprising though. 

[S-Clarke]

6 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Is it just me that thinks we weren't that bad, that it wasn't a three nil game?

It wasn't a 3-0 game, but how quickly our heads dropped once again is the overriding issue for me.

We controlled the game for periods, without having much threat, but once we had some bits go against us we collapsed. As per usual.

Edited 23 February, 2021 by S-Clarke

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

You can't start a game with Adams, Redmond and Tella (who actually did ok) when you look at our recent form. If it had been a cup game against a league one team, then maybe, but not away at Leeds FFS.
Ralph looks like a man who has run out of ideas. That starting line up tonight just looked desperate. 
Djenepo was man of the match on Saturday. His work rate was superb. What does Ralph do? Stick him on the bench. Minamino has scored 2 in 3. What does Ralph do, stick him on the bench. There's an argument for resting Ings, but you don't replace all 3 of them with 3 players who don't score goals and who've never started a competitive game together. Now isn't the time to start experimenting. 
Based on recent form, Djenepo & Minamino should have started instead of Redmond and Tella.

I will be amazed if we stay up this season. If we do then we're only delaying the inevitable. I don't see Ralph, Ings, JWP, KWP Bertie or Vestergaard being there next season.

A mate thinks we should make a move for Eddie Howe before he goes to Palace. My argument is this... Why on earth would he or any other credible manager come to Saints, with a board that couldn't give a f**k and no money to buy what's needed to compete at this level?
 

Edited 23 February, 2021 by Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd

[austsaint]

25 minutes ago, Ed Rooney said:

Simple fact is we are getting battered in midfield time and time again and do not offer anything from there attacking wise 

 

21 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

Ok, I'll answer you in case you're serious, although it looks like weak trolling to me.

Yes, he's a brilliant midfield warrior. He breaks up play, covers, is always available for a pass. He's added a bit of steel to his game, can tackle, knows when to keep the ball and recycle, which he does very well, whilst his looking for the forward pass is much improved. He's our most important player by mile.

Shroppie, I know you're a big fan of JWP, but his performances over the last 7 or 8 games (outfield play that is) have been mediocre, and appears to be why we have been outplayed in midfield in most games lately - though Romeu too hasn't been at his best since the injury.  It's not weak trolling to point that out.

[Teddeer]

17 minutes ago, Turkish said:

How is it you expect defenders not to be able to fill gaps but midfielders can? Kevin De Bruyne and Jordan Henderson are both midfielders, doesn’t mean they do the same job 

I'm sure they could swap midfield roles quite adequately. Not saying they'd give the same levels of performance but they could both do a reasonable job in any midfield role.

[trousers]

6 minutes ago, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

You can't start a game with Adams, Redmond and Tella (who actually did ok) when you look at our recent form. If it had been a cup game against a league one team, then maybe, but not away at Leeds FFS.
 

Did you watch the first half per chance....? 

Edited 23 February, 2021 by trousers

[egg]

13 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Is it just me that thinks we weren't that bad, that it wasn't a three nil game?

Not for me. First half we were better. Second half we were awful. It's no exaggeration that they could have scored 5 or 6. In one half. 

[Teddeer]

1 minute ago, austsaint said:

 

Shroppie, I know you're a big fan of JWP, but his performances over the last 7 or 8 games (outfield play that is) have been mediocre, and appears to be why we have been outplayed in midfield in most games lately - though Romeu too hasn't been at his best since the injury.  It's not weak trolling to point that out.

You're not allowed to say that.

[Saint86]

11 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

It wasn't a 3-0 game, but how quickly our heads dropped once again is the overriding issue for me.

We controlled the game for periods, without having much threat, but once we had some bits go against us we collapsed. As per usual.

Its routine. The second the ref is against us we lose our heads. Tbf it's been basically every game since Christmas... But ref + goal behind and you can give up. Scarring of the leiceater 9-0 game imo. 

[Shroppie]

4 minutes ago, austsaint said:

 

Shroppie, I know you're a big fan of JWP, but his performances over the last 7 or 8 games (outfield play that is) have been mediocre, and appears to be why we have been outplayed in midfield in most games lately - though Romeu too hasn't been at his best since the injury.  It's not weak trolling to point that out.

I'm not an unthinking fan. I base my views on observation. And Romeu was probably our best player tonight until his injury.

[Fan The Flames]

3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

It wasn't a 3-0 game, but how quickly our heads dropped once again is the overriding issue for me.

We controlled the game for periods, without having much threat, but once we had some bits go against us we collapsed. As per usual.

But did we. We conceded early in the second half and responded well, had good procession and more shots in this period. We then got sucked in for their second with Vestergaard and Salisu pulled out of position. But I don't think we crumbled even then. We have little cutting edge at the moment and the team know this, so the fact it is difficult to pull themselves back into a game isn't to do with weak mentality but the current lack of quality and a deficient system.

[egg]

3 minutes ago, austsaint said:

 

Shroppie, I know you're a big fan of JWP, but his performances over the last 7 or 8 games (outfield play that is) have been mediocre, and appears to be why we have been outplayed in midfield in most games lately - though Romeu too hasn't been at his best since the injury.  It's not weak trolling to point that out.

He's been below his early season levels for sure, but he's been better than Romeu and probably our best player still.

Other than Chauke or Jankewitz, we literally have no other fit centre midfielders so his form is irrelevant as he plays by default. 

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Fan The Flames said:

But did we. We conceded early in the second half and responded well, had good procession and more shots in this period. We then got sucked in for their second with Vestergaard and Salisu pulled out of position. But I don't think we crumbled even then. We have little cutting edge at the moment and the team know this, so the fact it is difficult to pull themselves back into a game isn't to do with weak mentality but the current lack of quality and a deficient system.

We lost control of the game as soon as they scored. (all of the second half). We panicked, stretched it more and ended up leaving lots of gaps. It was very harem-scarem for a while, until they finally put us out of our misery. 

We just seem to lose our heads when we get a set back, through a combination of certain players vanishing and certain players panicking with the ball and making the wrong decisions etc. There's a big mental hole in our squad.

[austsaint]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

He's been below his early season levels for sure, but he's been better than Romeu and probably our best player still.

Other than Chauke or Jankewitz, we literally have no other fit centre midfielders so his form is irrelevant as he plays by default. 

Yes, he probably has been our best player still - and as you say, even if Diallo was fit and Romeu in better form, JWP probably gets the nod because of the deadball skills.   It is noticeable how often the midfield has been well beaten in the past two months or so.   Oh, and I really don't think JWP could be described as a midfield warrior - though his run of consecutive games is impressive and a testament to his fitness.

[Fan The Flames]

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

We lost control of the game as soon as they scored. (all of the second half). We panicked, stretched it more and ended up leaving lots of gaps. It was very harem-scarem for a while, until they finally put us out of our misery. 

We just seem to lose our heads when we get a set back, through a combination of certain players vanishing and certain players panicking with the ball and making the wrong decisions etc. There's a big mental hole in our squad.

You've been saying this for weeks, I just don't see it that way.

[macca155]

JWP apparent drop in form has probably got more to do with midfield being over run time and time again. He's a very good player but football is a team game. One player cannot compensate for the number of gaps the team has. He is run ragged.

[S-Clarke]

Just now, Fan The Flames said:

You've been saying this for weeks, I just don't see it that way.

Fair enough. I just think the make up is all wrong to be honest. Take some of the players out and put them into other teams, they'd probably looked decent - as individually I think they're talented, but the makeup has been wrong since Puel came in and we lost the likes of Pelle/Fonte/Morgan/Mane/Wanyama etc. We didn't get the same sorts through the door in terms of their replacements. (Not just quality, but personalities). We looked at individual quality/are they good at passing etc and ignored every other factor.

It's the same core we had under Puel, Pellegrino, Hughes and now Ralph. We've had our two worse results under this lot. Something stinks.

[Roo1976]

2 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Ralph has fatal flaws imo.

If he sticks to basics and things go well he is a good manager, he has empathy with the board and the fans but, when things get tough (injuries etc) he starts being clever, square pegs in round holes etc and he digs in, eg. (never dropping Redmond who long ago stopped looking PL quality).

He left our two goalscorers on the bench today, bad mistake because at the end of the day goals win matches. (Look at Palace last night at Brighton - they had two forwards who put the ball in the net when it mattered.) Either Ings or Minamino should have started.

But do we get rid and risk another Puel/Pellegrino? Rather stick with Ralph than that. I know he hasn't had much money, but he's not learning. I can't remember a more depressing run of results in a more depressing time and while Corona is not Ralph's fault, my faith in him is evaporating.

Nothing wrong with Puel, just got dealt a shitty hand with players he had at his disposal .Again like Ralph didn't or hasn't got the right players or backing financially to improve what we have at present or in the past .But Puel was a thinker and Ralph only seems to know one way and it sure aint the winning way ATM. Thought first half we were OK and it was a good shape.2nd got away somewhat and 2 nil inevitably lead to 3  but not picking players to play in the right position well really why not ,that's what THEY GET PAID TO DO.

[sadoldgit]

29 minutes ago, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

You can't start a game with Adams, Redmond and Tella (who actually did ok) when you look at our recent form. If it had been a cup game against a league one team, then maybe, but not away at Leeds FFS.
Ralph looks like a man who has run out of ideas. That starting line up tonight just looked desperate. 
Djenepo was man of the match on Saturday. His work rate was superb. What does Ralph do? Stick him on the bench. Minamino has scored 2 in 3. What does Ralph do, stick him on the bench. There's an argument for resting Ings, but you don't replace all 3 of them with 3 players who don't score goals and who've never started a competitive game together. Now isn't the time to start experimenting. 
Based on recent form, Djenepo & Minamino should have started instead of Redmond and Tella.

I will be amazed if we stay up this season. If we do then we're only delaying the inevitable. I don't see Ralph, Ings, JWP, KWP Bertie or Vestergaard being there next season.

A mate thinks we should make a move for Eddie Howe before he goes to Palace. My argument is this... Why on earth would he or any other credible manager come to Saints, with a board that couldn't give a f**k and no money to buy what's needed to compete at this level?
 

Funnily enough the same argument gets rolled out every time we go through a slump yet people still want to come and work for us. Go figure. As for the list of players you say will leave, out of those I think only Ings will go, assuming that the right club comes on for him.

[ally_uk]

Squad selection again was baffling hasn't he not worked out that Redmond is utterly crap and offers nothing.....

Adams holds up the ball well but as a striker at this level I'm sorry but it's goals and finishing that counts so what was the logic of having Adam's and Redmond up top together? am I missing something here.....I

You watch Ings and the body language when he came on having can tell he is frustrated playing alongside these muppets...... Can't blame him when he leaves because he will be off......

Crap tactics, wrong players on the pitch from the get go, to slow to change things no plan b....

 

lastly whoever made the decision to loan and Vokins out and Valeryout without suitable cover hats off to you...... 

If you were the opposition all you would say to players is exploit and overload the flanks........ Look at today not rocket science is it this stupid transfer decision has royally come back to bite Whoever made such stupid decisons needs to stop shoe horning players into different unfamiliar positions and strengthen properly........ We are a joke it's embarrassing

[Chez]

when a CM get injured and we don't replace like for like we become wide open and crumble. Likewise not having a like for like CM replacement available to substitute a tiring player has cost us time after time. When Romeu got injured I feared the worse. When we didn't bring Juka on we as good as handed the victory to Leeds. I don't know if he would have changed anything, Ive not seen much of him, but I do know that our other midfielders are not cut out to run a game.

That's just just one issue. We have a lot of others...but they are well covered in this thread. We are painful to watch. I'm hopeful we can turn it around. Not sure how Ralph turned it around last time, but he needs to repeat the trick.

[Micky]

48 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Is it just me that thinks we weren't that bad, that it wasn't a three nil game?

You're right it wasn't a three nil game.  If it wasn't for a couple of smart saves from McCarthy coupled with some wayward finishing from Leeds it could've been 6 or 7 nil. 

[macca155]

For all our moaning about VAR and the Ref's decisions. Leeds needed no help from either to slot away three good goals. 

There is the difference sadly.

They absorbed our early assault, put the midfield under pressure, exposed our gaps, and weaker players. 

Just as every team has done recently.

Ralph has to review his tactics.

[egg]

3 minutes ago, Micky said:

You're right it wasn't a three nil game.  If it wasn't for a couple of smart saves from McCarthy coupled with some wayward finishing from Leeds it could've been 6 or 7 nil. 

Yep. And all in one half. With 11 players. No dodgy decisions. 

No excuses this time. We really are in a mess. 

Edited 23 February, 2021 by egg

[Micky]

19 minutes ago, macca155 said:

For all our moaning about VAR and the Ref's decisions. Leeds needed no help from either to slot away three good goals. 

There is the difference sadly.

They absorbed our early assault, put the midfield under pressure, exposed our gaps, and weaker players. 

Just as every team has done recently.

Ralph has to review his tactics.

To be fair,  'our early assault' was really nothing more than having possession 30 yards from their goal.  We hardly fashioned a shot on target, did their keeper make a save?  Nah,  don't think we assaulted naff all tonight. 

[bpsaint]

23 minutes ago, macca155 said:

For all our moaning about VAR and the Ref's decisions. Leeds needed no help from either to slot away three good goals. 

There is the difference sadly.

They absorbed our early assault, put the midfield under pressure, exposed our gaps, and weaker players. 

Just as every team has done recently.

Ralph has to review his tactics.

Pretty much this.

i don’t think it matters what team Ralph put out tonight, the dynamic is all wrong and there’s clearly something wrong with our mentality.

Pre match we were told that Leeds had 6 players out injured including Phillips who was a big loss for them - made no difference whatsoever they completely dominated that second half. No excuses from them just a winning mindset.

 

[captainchris]

20 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

Pretty much this.

i don’t think it matters what team Ralph put out tonight, the dynamic is all wrong and there’s clearly something wrong with our mentality.

Pre match we were told that Leeds had 6 players out injured including Phillips who was a big loss for them - made no difference whatsoever they completely dominated that second half. No excuses from them just a winning mindset.

 

Exactly this....

From the Chairman to Ralph and then the players we do not have a winning mindset...

Starts with the Chairman and trickles down.... 

[Red]

So 4 managers on with more or less the same squad of players with more or less the same net outcome (overall) might be a clue as to where the problem lies. Do get the feeling that Ralph has lost a bit of self belief lately and that is reflecting on to the soft players (mental attitude and lack of aggression). The most annoying thing at the moment is as soon as something goes against us we throw in the towel - where is that fighting spirit of we'll get revenge against that injustice or balls up???

We are so soft, it's unbelievable - we start well (usually) but literally the slightest thing against us and we fold like a house of cards. When decisions go against us, we meekly accept them compared to other teams where they surround the officials and make out there's been GBH. I would accept a defeat if we really fought in the game but we seldom do. Start well, opposition punch us on the nose, and we go home crying to mummy, instead of standing up and punching back - no coincidence we have the worst record for dropped points.

We desperately crave some of the Mark Dennis, Mark Wright, Mick Mills, Golac, Case, Benali, etc. types in the team right now 

[Give it to Ron]

4 hours ago, Micky said:

To be fair,  'our early assault' was really nothing more than having possession 30 yards from their goal.  We hardly fashioned a shot on target, did their keeper make a save?  Nah,  don't think we assaulted naff all tonight. 

Yes he saved from Tella one on one,JWP and Armstrong  all straight at him. We should have been 2 up with Vest missed header Tella tame shot.

Second half everything was ballooned over the bar. We didn’t create anything when we did get to cross no one was showing. 
 

why do we start halves so badly? We always seem stuck in dressing room for first 10. 
I would suggest getting them out early and warm up but they are too knackered and unfit wasting energy with that press first 20.

[stknowle]

9 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

But only when you have the tools to fight back with. It would have been like fighting back on the trenches with Nerf guns or water pistols, is it worth the hassle of even trying that when you know the outcome?

I can't help but feel sorry for Ralph and how he's been totally hamstrung here. He's not blameless at all, but christ he's got a bad spin.

Agree, it's fairly basic really - we are hoping to scrape by with minimum investment that leaves us with a painfully thin squad which will be exposed if we suffer too many injuries (like, 3). We are suffering those injuries and we are not scraping by as a result. 

[Maya's Dad]

11 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

Alternative view alert - I thought on the whole we were alright.

Thought defence and both central mids worked hard, Romeu was quality.

The biggest difference was their clinical finishing when they had opportunities where as we couldn't finish in a gang bang.

Our front 4 just are not clicking.

 

i havent been in a gang bang but i imagine it would be quite hard to finish with a bunch of other men watching

[GarrettIvo]

It wouldn't feel like February if we weren't at least semi-seriously talking about relegation.

Well done to the squad for making us all feel at home again. That table topping feeling a couple months ago never really sat comfortably with me.

We're back where we belong.

[Mr X]

Leeds don't exactly have a team of world beaters but the ease at which they carved us open for all three goals was shocking, I don't necessarily buy the "what do you expect are players aren't good enough" theory, other teams with equal or worse players seem to do just fine, Ralph only seems to get players invested in one style a style which has been found out big time, if he can't get us motivated across full games ie abysmal second halfs then we have to question things, we may just about scrape over the line this season but is Ralph the right fit for us next 

[DT]

Ralph would call it ‘gegenbang’

(Austrian/German high press joke)

[alehouseboys]

4 minutes ago, Maya's Dad said:

i havent been in a gang bang but i imagine it would be quite hard to finish with a bunch of other men watching

It would be quite hard to start tbh!

It can't be far away from the point the season closed down last year where after it transformed our season. Any chance for another complete lockdown?

[Shroppie]

Thought that, in the cold light of day, I’d risk trying a balanced assessment of what’s wrong.

We have gone from a confident, top six team to a fragile, nervous bunch with no confidence over the course of about 10 weeks. I include Ralph in that.

To start with injuries: of course they are the major problem. In November the team picked itself:

Mccarthy
KWP Vestergaard Bednarek Bertrand
JWP Romeu
Redmond Armstrong
Ings Adams

Since then seven of that team have had time out through injury and suspension, in almost every position. Add in likely deputies of Smallbone, Obafemi, Walcott, Diallo (injured) and Valery, Long, Vokins (rashly sent out) and the squad simply couldn’t cope. Ralph has had the options of square pegs in round holes or inexperience, usually both at once. The bench has vanished as a Plan B.

That’s bad enough but we’ve also suffered from more than a few bad decisions that have hurt us. Handballs, offsides, penalties, ref blowing/not blowing his whistle have impacted results and, more importantly, confidence. Once a sense of injustice sets in it becomes an underlying draining emotion. I can understand how the normally philosophical Ralph has shown signs of this but he has to lead in positivity, but he’s looking down, understandably.

Another factor in the background is just how unsettled Danny and Ryan are over contracts. It can’t help and it’s a Catch 22. When things are going well and they’re having good games there is the conflict between being happy as part of a successful team and coping with the pressure if a greedy agent encouraging a greedy move. When things start to go wrong, they start to think they’d be better off elsewhere.

I still think the team.are one of two good wins away from picking up, but at the moment that’s easier said than done. But it can be done because we are still playing good football, at least in patches. We really need a bit of luck!

My biggest worry is Ralph keeping his focus, staying confident and positive and not sinking into the blame game, but he’s taking a lot of knocks. Take last night as an example. He was frustrated that we didn’t capitalise on good chances in the first half. We could have been two or three up. And he saw silly defensive lapses put us on the back foot. And for those he will be inclined to blame players, but it’s a delicate balance. Then there were the decisions. The VAR pen was probably right, but it still gives the feeling of “here we go again”. If it’s approached as asking if a “clear and obvious error” was made, do you get the same result? Plenty of recent very quick VAR checks deciding the ref may have been wrong, but not clear and obvious. Not happening for us, though. And the non whistle blowing was very questionable. Add to that a disgusting pitch which clearly gave Ralph and the players worries over injuries (definitely the cause of Romeu’s injury) and affected our ability to play our game and it’s easy to complain that everything is against us. But having a persecution complex won’t solve anything.

Even with injuries we can put out a team which, on a level playing field (both figuratively and in actuality) can give anyone a game. How badly we need Nigel’s blue line. Move on. Stay positive.

Edited 24 February, 2021 by Shroppie

[Lord Duckhunter]

9 hours ago, Shroppie said:

 

Yes, he's a brilliant midfield warrior. 

A midfield warrior that ducks instead of taking one in the face. Yeah, just who you’d want beside you in the trenches. Wake up and smell the coffee, he’s soft as shite, a bottle job. Victor wasn’t the greatest p, but he’d of taken one for the team yesterday, as would of countless players from the past. The fact the captain wouldn’t tells us a lot about him and the culture around the club. Soft arsed. 

Edited 24 February, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[Shroppie]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

A midfield warrior that ducks instead of taking one in the face. Yeah, just who you’d want beside you in the trenches. Wake up and smell the coffee, he’s soft as shite, a bottle job. 

I agree that wasn't his finest moment. Not sure if he thought it was going wide or the McCarthy was right behind it but he should have got his head to it, not that it would gave made any difference vto the result.

And I'm not judging him on one mistake. You've got an agenda and you've permanently defined him as "soft" and a "bottle job" He's neither.

[egg]

3 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

Thought that, in the cold light of day, I’d risk trying a balanced assessment of what’s wrong.

We have gone from a confident, top six team to a fragile, nervous bunch with no confidence over the course of about 10 weeks. I include Ralph in that.

To start with injuries: of course they are the major problem. In November the team picked itself:

Mccarthy
KWP Vestergaard Bednarek Bertrand
JWP Romeu
Redmond Armstrong
Ings Adams

Since then seven of that team have had time out through injury and suspension, in almost every position. Add in likely deputies of Smallbone, Obafemi, Walcott, Diallo (injured) and Valery, Long, Vokins (rashly sent out) and the squad simply couldn’t cope. Ralph has had the options of square pegs in round holes or inexperience, usually both at once. The bench has vanished as a Plan B.

That’s bad enough but we’ve also suffered from more than a few bad decisions that have hurt us. Handballs, offsides, penalties, ref blowing/not blowing his whistle have impacted results and, more importantly, confidence. Once a sense of injustice sets in it becomes an underlying draining emotion. I can understand how the normally philosophical Ralph has shown signs of this but he has to lead in positivity, but he’s looking down, understandably.

Another factor in the background is just how unsettled Danny and Ryan are over contracts. It can’t help and it’s a Catch 22. When things are going well and they’re having good games there is the conflict between being happy as part of a successful team and coping with the pressure if a greedy agent encouraging a greedy move. When things start to go wrong, they start to think they’d be better off elsewhere.

I still think the team.are one of two good wins away from picking up, but at the moment that’s easier said than done. But it can be done because we are still playing good football, at least in patches. We really need a bit of luck!

My biggest worry is Ralph keeping his focus, stating confident and positive and not sinking into the blame game, but he’s taking a lot of knocks. Take last night as an example. He was frustrated that we didn’t capitalise on good chances in the first half. We could have been two or three up. And he saw silly defensive lapses put us on the back foot. And for those he will be inclined to blame players, but it’s a delicate balance. Then there were the decisions. The VAR pen was probably right, but it still gives the feeling of “here we go again”. If it’s approached as asking if a “clear and obvious error” was made, do you get the same result? Plenty of recent very quick VAR checks deciding the ref may have been wrong, but not clear and obvious. Not happening for us, though. And the non whistle blowing was very questionable. Add to that a disgusting pitch which clearly gave Ralph and the players worries over injuries (definitely the cause of Romeu’s injury) and affected our ability to play our game and it’s easy to complain that everything is against us. But having a persecution complex won’t solve anything.

Even with injuries we can put out a team which, on a level playing field (both figuratively and in actuality) can give anyone a game. How badly we need Nigel’s blue line. Move on. Stay positive.

Forget the excuses. Confidence and motivation comes from the manager, and then from the senior players  showing the way. Ralph appears to have lost the ability to keep his players playing, and there is no obvious on field leadership. 

To be fair to the players, they're not helped by Ralph being unable to adapt to the changes other teams make. 

It's easy to blame VAR, contracts, injuries, lack of signings, bad luck etc, but our run is down to more than that. We've fallen away badly and much of the blame lies with Ralph and the players. 

 

[egg]

8 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

A midfield warrior that ducks instead of taking one in the face. Yeah, just who you’d want beside you in the trenches. Wake up and smell the coffee, he’s soft as shite, a bottle job. 

Quite, and it deserves focus. It that's the example shown by our captain, its no surprise that the rest of the team hide when the going gets tough. 

[alehouseboys]

17 minutes ago, egg said:

Quite, and it deserves focus. It that's the example shown by our captain, its no surprise that the rest of the team hide when the going gets tough. 

It's the classic everyone wanting to play, wanting the ball when you're winning, but players going missing when things turn bad. It certainly lays bare the character of a player.

We clearly need some hard heads in there to shake a few up - having said that, the infamous Alehouse Brawlers were still capable of shipping 7 at Leeds!

I would imagine Gao is beginning to regret not taking a deal on the club right now.

[warsash saint]

1 hour ago, Shroppie said:

Vokins (rashly sent out)

Warmed the bench the whole game for Sunderland last night.  Valery did the same for 80 mins - I think that tells you everything!

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

Warmed the bench the whole game for Sunderland last night.  Valery did the same for 80 mins - I think that tells you everything!

That sums up our current depth right there. Not good enough throughout the club. Academy has dropped down multiple levels, even they're being bum-fucked by 7 goals in games.

Feels like the entire club is imploding at the moment and there is just no quality coming through.

[Shroppie]

3 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

Warmed the bench the whole game for Sunderland last night.  Valery did the same for 80 mins - I think that tells you everything!

Not really. Valery has had decent games for us. Instead we have nothing.

A problem with our players going out on loan is they have been schooled in our style of play which won't necessarily be wanted by the loan club. And if they do play, it's not in the way we want when they come back. Valery is missing the opportunity to play in our way.

[austsaint]

4 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

Warmed the bench the whole game for Sunderland last night.  Valery did the same for 80 mins - I think that tells you everything!

The way I look at players like Vokins and Valery is if Harry Reed was considered not good enough to be playing first team Football for Saints (different positions I know) there's no way those two were ever going to make the grade.  The real issue with the two full backs is they should have been replaced and covered long before now.