S-Clarke Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 Just now, Osvaldorama said: I’ve not watched Havant this season… but I drive Lyanco there myself. I’m sure the manager didn’t mean it literally and was being hyperbolic. (I agree with you that the personal abuse is out of order though) I also do think it was much worse than Brentford away. I have never seen players look so confused. Salisu was shouting at the bench, edozie and Aribo were at full back. We had no midfield or structure. As Jo Tessem apparently said, it was literally chaos. It was as bad as could be in the biggest game of the season. Football fans are emotional creatures. This was the biggest concern, it was obvious to anyone in the stands. Us, media, opposition, coaches - but why not our manager or his coaches? It was disorganised chaos after around 80 mins, you had CB's at LB, then Edozie at LB, then balls being launched long to Elyounoussi. Aribo coming in from deep and just running across the pitch with no actual position. JWP was deep between the CB’s, then he ended up wide right. It felt somewhat surreal, I couldn't quite believe what I was watching. The entirety of the game was shit, but that last period was just a rabble. I don't think the players had any idea wtf was needed from them. I'd have expected better if a fan was plucked from the stand and asked to coach the last 10 mins. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: You said he was correct to call the fans entitled because many are. I don't agree that entitled is the correct way to describe any fanbase that deserve a very basic level of commitment and results. What he meant by entitled is an unrealistic expectation. He's right in that respect, but that's different to expecting to achieve what we're capable of. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killers Knee Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 IMO Mad Nate has the two cup games as free hits, results really don’t matter here. What we must do is learn from these matches and put out a team capable of beating Everton, playing a style of football that gets us the 3 points. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 1 minute ago, egg said: What he meant by entitled is an unrealistic expectation. He's right in that respect, but that's different to expecting to achieve what we're capable of. I don't think expecting more from Ralph and his team was an unrealistic expectation at all. if there are saints fans who were expecting top six or something like that then it would only ever have been a tiny minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 1 minute ago, Killers Knee said: IMO Mad Nate has the two cup games as free hits, results really don’t matter here. What we must do is learn from these matches and put out a team capable of beating Everton, playing a style of football that gets us the 3 points. IMO if we get humped in the two cup games then you can't credibly give him the Everton game too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 3 minutes ago, Killers Knee said: IMO Mad Nate has the two cup games as free hits, results really don’t matter here. What we must do is learn from these matches and put out a team capable of beating Everton, playing a style of football that gets us the 3 points. The cups don't bother me. What does is a lost week for another manager to work something on the training pitch, and help get players in that'll improve our chances of staying up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 1 hour ago, St Louis said: SR acknowledge internally now that they may have made a mistake in the Jones appointment. Players reporting back to SR that systems are too complicated and not suited, causing arguments within squad. Players/staff like Jones, but feel he is out of his depth. With each defeat the discontent is growing within the squad.I'm not sure what this means in the short term, but watch this space. 1 hour ago, St Louis said: Senior Director level, I can't say anymore, sorry. I thought it was just easy for us fans to make assumptions that didnt fit with reality, but I have it confirmed. Cheers for the insight @St Louis - appreciated 👍 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 57 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: Where have people slandered his private life? Read the womanising bit of post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, S-Clarke said: I don't think the players had any idea wtf was needed from them. What was needed from them last few minutes was to get the fucking thing in the mixer and throw extra bodies in there. If they can’t work that out, good god. Last few mins we worked a position for JWP to cross the ball and he fucking squared it again. The fact players are looking to the bench when we’re 1 down entering injury time says as much about them as it does the boss. Do you think Jimmy Case or Carlton Palmer would be looking at the bench wondering how to play. What the fuck was the captain, our experienced international player doing, sort it out yourselves and then dig out the manager later. The lack of urgency at the end was pitiful. Fucking disgrace. Edited 6 January, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 44 minutes ago, DT said: Sincerely hope the board is sounding out other managers, with Dyche at the top of that list. Suspect NJ will still be in charge against Palace, and although I of course want a win it might be better to get another loss with the players clueless about what the manager wants in order to hammer it home to those who might be able to do something in the games that actually matter, to actually do something Doesn't Dyche play the same hoofball we are complaining about lol 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 4 minutes ago, OldNick said: Doesn't Dyche play the same hoofball we are complaining about lol If thats all you think we’re complaining about then you’re well out of touch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, OldNick said: Doesn't Dyche play the same hoofball we are complaining about lol Similar, but with round pegs in round holes, organisation, respect of the players, motivated players, and some kind of plan. Apart from that, him and Jones are exactly the same. Edited 6 January, 2023 by egg 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 36 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said: Yes I did watch. It was as bad as Brentford away last season, which I also watched. If you’re judging the last 10 mins of games, I presume you thought the attempt to beat 9 men Newcastle under Ralph as bad. Don’t you think claiming Lyanco couldn’t get in the Havant side or Jones couldn’t manage in the Championship valid criticism, or emotional nonsense? What makes you think he could do a job in the championship for us? So far with us, he’s proved that he is tactically atrocious, and can’t build a way of playing with the players we have. The only way he has any success with our team is buying a bunch of 6 foot 5 players and playing long ball. If by some miracle he managed to get us promoted (I’m almost certain he wouldn’t) that way of playing would get absolutely crucified in the premier league. The best teams that have come up from the championship in recent years, are those that have played decent football which has given them a platform to build something long term. Jones hasn’t given anyone 1 positive in 2 months. At least there was some positives under Ralph despite being out of form. We can barely create a chance. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Louis Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 3 minutes ago, OldNick said: Doesn't Dyche play the same hoofball we are complaining about lol He has the grit/determination/organisation we are lacking for sure... but I really think our current squad of players could not be further from a Dyche team if it tried!? Lightweight, ball-players, lack of characters, etc. I'm just not sure that would work. We need a more dynamic Mikel Arteta/Ralph Hassenhutl type I reckon 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 14 minutes ago, OldNick said: Read the womanising bit of post Which post? Genuinely I've missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 Jones doesn't have a plan. Or if he does, nobody has a clue. We need a manager to provide the players with a structure. Under Dyche it wouldn't be pretty but every player would know their role. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 17 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said: What was needed from them last few minutes was to get the fucking thing in the mixer and throw extra bodies in there. If they can’t work that out, good god. Last few mins we worked a position for JWP to cross the ball and he fucking squared it again. The fact players are looking to the bench when we’re 1 down entering injury time says as much about them as it does the boss. Do you think Jimmy Case or Carlton Palmer would be looking at the bench wondering how to play. What the fuck was the captain, our experienced international player doing, sort it out yourselves and then dig out the manager later. The lack of urgency at the end was pitiful. Fucking disgrace. I think that's what were doing....''Just get it in the box'''. You don't have to be a genius tactician to instruct that. Don't get me wrong, these players are frustratingly crap as has been proven time and time again, but they weren't really given a foundation to play from at any stage on Wednesday. The way we were being instructed to play (which I visibly saw Chris Cohen directing) was to lob it diagonally to either Ely or Edozie in the later stages. How the fuck was that ever going to work, just dumb-ass dinosaur mentality football. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire Saint Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 https://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/next-manager-to-leave-post Jones was 33-1 on Monday.... 7-1 now. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 My biggest complaint is that he doesn't seem to realise that a selected team has a natural shape and will end up playing within that natural shape whatever the managers wish for it to play his preferred way. His team selections have been wish lists rather than setting up a team.The following is purely a framework of players that will naturally play 4-4-2 or with adjustment play 4-3-3. We have proved there is no dynamic in the centrebacks that allows them to play three together so forget it. Pick the best and quickest two. The full backs are not wingers and never will be, use them dashing forward recklessly and we will expose the centrebacks and goalkeeper. the full backs are defenders first and always so make them part of a back four that sets up that way and defends. The midfield is the real problem. Failing a new midfielder, Lavia and JWP. Orsic on the left and from S Armstrong, Edozie, New player similar to Orsic , bring back Tella (covers left and right). Up front Adams and a new striker. That to me looks like a team that will play to its natural shape with the wide players tasked to get back and double bank the fullbacks as required. It also demonstrates what a problem we have with the rest of the players apart from a fit Liveramento not worth a place. It also shows we could at the very least do with Orsic, new defender, midfielder and goalscoring wide player. Jones picks the numbers and shoehorns in the players he wants to play resulting in a disorganised mess followed by chaos after substitutions. Football is a simple game and dossiers etc just confuse the players. A well picked naturally balanced team especially if it plays better than the sum the parts will always outperform an overbriefed unbalanced team. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 How 5-1 with Skybet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 "Now" not "How"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SotonianWill Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 potter out picking up steam on twitter, that’s another one to add to the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SambaMaverick Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 Could next Saturday be 'El Sackico'? I don't think he, or anyone, could have any complaints if he manages to lose both cup games and then again at Goodison next week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said: If thats all you think we’re complaining about then you’re well out of touch Quite truthfully if you read the posts on here, especially on the match thread there is not enough time to list what we moan about. We have built a squad that is totally lightweight for the PL. We have had no physicality for years. We dont know how to use the dark arts when a team builds an attack and stop it at source. We get dominated in midfield, and cant score for a toffee. A manager joins as he wants to take the opportunity and our fanbase will not give him a fair run. Yes he may be total rubbish but the messiah who just left was part of the no wins in so many matches. The players are as nervous as kittens, especially as they are young, will not cope. We are killing ourselves by not uniting. Ye we are all desperate, but this goes back to the change of owership and the fantasy of the new owners using us as their chemisty set, experimenting with the 'play youngsters' Edited 6 January, 2023 by OldNick 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alehouseboys Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 3 hours ago, Miltonaggro said: Been trying to recall where I’d seen and heard NJ and the Tyro Crew before. This is the pre-Palace presser: Me too But tbh, I've got nothing against the fella really, can't blame him for taking the job when offered, just completely the wrong choice in our position 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 46 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: Which post? Genuinely I've missed it. Look up the poster Colin page 24. Im not prepared to be associated and by posting it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 To a degree I feel very sorry for NJ. He did well at Luton and was offered the chance to manage in the Prem. In the same way as good strikers in the Championship would jump at the opportunity to play in the Prem. I have heard the expression "Thrown under the bus" used a few times recently. This is what it feels like to me, but I am not sure why. I don't remember any major press conference from the club when he was appointed explaining the reasoning behind the decision, and nothing from the club to answer/respond to the fans concerns. It is all very strange......Silence definitely not golden in this case..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 1 hour ago, hypochondriac said: IMO if we get humped in the two cup games then you can't credibly give him the Everton game too. Btw Who makes the final decision on wether he stays or goes? Semmens or ankerson or a board vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 8 minutes ago, OldNick said: Look up the poster Colin page 24. Im not prepared to be associated and by posting it again. I doubt 'Colin' is a Saints fan. Sounds like someone with a grudge (Stoke fan probably) who signed up to the forum on 26th Dec and had posted just once. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BotleySaint Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 27 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said: Could next Saturday be 'El Sackico'? I don't think he, or anyone, could have any complaints if he manages to lose both cup games and then again at Goodison next week. Lampard will be gone by then and Everton will have the new manager bounce for that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchards Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 Lots of noise coming out of the club! It’s toxic at the moment and players are wanting Jones out big time. If my source tells me more I will let you know but I can’t keep hassling them 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Bates Statue Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 15 hours ago, Pilchards said: Could anyone link me a bookies that lets you lay a bet on a new manager for a club even if they have not sacked the current one yet. Cheers in advance and PS this is not gossip just preparation. So have you been told that this is happening, or are you thinking like myself, making an assumption that it is now inevitable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie May Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 1 minute ago, Pilchards said: Lots of noise coming out of the club! It’s toxic at the moment and players are wanting Jones out big time. If my source tells me more I will let you know but I can’t keep hassling them Was waiting for this. I don’t think it’ll be long for the axe to swing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 3 hours ago, St Louis said: SR acknowledge internally now that they may have made a mistake in the Jones appointment. Players reporting back to SR that systems are too complicated and not suited, causing arguments within squad. Players/staff like Jones, but feel he is out of his depth. With each defeat the discontent is growing within the squad.I'm not sure what this means in the short term, but watch this space. If players have gone behind the manager's back to SR then it is only going to end one way. Better to lance the boil now than let it fester any longer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 Just now, BotleySaint said: Lampard will be gone by then and Everton will have the new manager bounce for that game. So we lose another "6 pointer". The Brighton game was bad, but I thought ( hoped ) we showed a slight improvement against Fulham, only for expectations that NJ had established something to be dashed with the utter dross against Forest. He has had enough games to show he has a plan to turn things round, but he seems to be totally clueless, and this is reflected in the style of play and performances of the players. Get rid now, bring in a replacement with PL experience, and use the 2 cup games as free hits to try to organise things before Goodison. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 2 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said: If players have gone behind the manager's back to SR then it is only going to end one way. Better to lance the boil now than let it fester any longer. Didn't the players do similar regarding Ralph as well? At some point they have to take responsiblity too, this is equally on them and has been for many years. Although it's hard to disagree with them on Jones, they do have to look into the mirror at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunglasses Ron Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 Nathan Jones is like the management equivalent of the Wealdstone Raider 😃 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dman Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 1 minute ago, S-Clarke said: Didn't the players do similar regarding Ralph as well? At some point they have to take responsiblity too, this is equally on them and has been for many years. Although it's hard to disagree with them on Jones, they do have to look into the mirror at some point. Correct. The players are a bunch of cowards and deserve relegation on their CV. However; in this case, they’re not to blame. Jones is so far out of his depth it’s untrue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 1 hour ago, egg said: Similar, but with round pegs in round holes, organisation, respect of the players, motivated players, and some kind of plan. Apart from that, him and Jones are exactly the same. And a totally different style of player. I can see the fear in Casamiro's eyes as Edozie comes at him to do a crunching tackle. I remember being by the touchline for a Burnley game and was astounded to see that the majority had massive thighs, it was incredible, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 His whole demeanour when in the touchline does not fill me with any confidence whatsoever so god only knows how the players feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonaggro Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 16 minutes ago, Sunglasses Ron said: Nathan Jones is like the management equivalent of the Wealdstone Raider 😃 WR has more charisma and credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toussaint Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 1 hour ago, SotonianWill said: potter out picking up steam on twitter, that’s another one to add to the list. Very harsh with half his star players injured, but he'd be great for us if he could be persuaded, which I doubt. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakovnetski Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 Rugen Selles as caretaker anyone? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 Extraordinary claims being made by @Pilchards & @St Louis, are they really insiders or indeed are they club employees? I wouldn't get your hopes up too high lads, nobody up top has the guts to admit they were wrong about Jones so chances of him being sacked as many would like are close to zero. Bookies odds suggest nothing is imminent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SotonianWill Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 29 minutes ago, S-Clarke said: Didn't the players do similar regarding Ralph as well? At some point they have to take responsiblity too, this is equally on them and has been for many years. Although it's hard to disagree with them on Jones, they do have to look into the mirror at some point. Exactly this. Bunch of wankers, I don’t remember disliking a bunch as much as these mincers. Chucked Ralph under a bus, chucked this bloke under the bus and they’ll eventually chuck the next one under as well. Until we clear the vast majority out we’re stuffed. It would be funny if SR said to them “we’ve listened, and sacked Jones”. Now meet your new boss and his asst. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 (edited) 42 minutes ago, OldNick said: And a totally different style of player. I can see the fear in Casamiro's eyes as Edozie comes at him to do a crunching tackle. I remember being by the touchline for a Burnley game and was astounded to see that the majority had massive thighs, it was incredible, Fair point!! I suspect those Burnley players had calves bigger than the thighs of our lads! Edited 6 January, 2023 by egg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 9 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said: Exactly this. Bunch of wankers, I don’t remember disliking a bunch as much as these mincers. Chucked Ralph under a bus, chucked this bloke under the bus and they’ll eventually chuck the next one under as well. Until we clear the vast majority out we’re stuffed. It would be funny if SR said to them “we’ve listened, and sacked Jones”. Now meet your new boss and his asst. Yep, with Pulis as defensive coach and Strachan fitness coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintant Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 3 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said: So. What’s to do? If we think that we have a chance of getting out of this relegation mess then something needs to change quickly. If we do get relegated then is Nathan Jones the right person to get us out of the Championship? No because if he gets us relegated the fans will be even more against him than they are now. That is the stark reality faced by SR. If they decide to keep Jones he will have to start winning football matches and improve our style of play very quickly. They took the huge gamble to appoint him and now they find themselves between a rock and a hard place. Poor management in the extreme. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintant Posted 6 January, 2023 Share Posted 6 January, 2023 3 hours ago, OldNick said: I cant believe people are pouring out such vitriol, and the slander of his private life!! All of a sudden it seems Ralphs tenure was the best football the world have ever seen. Listening to Stoke fans ffs We don't need to listen to Stoke fans. Our eyes show us what is happening and it's not a pretty sight. SR wasted their chance to appoint a decent coach after sacking Ralph. Anyone who believes Jones will turn this around, given time, is living in cloud cuckoo land. The bloke is a dinosaur and the coaches he brought with him are not up to standard either. Time for SR to admit they've cocked up and cut their losses 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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