Che Adams

[STEVEADAMS]

Second goal was class perhaps he’s recognising he needed to do more and let’s hope it continues.

[LiberalCommunist]

We need to keep Che, just so we can bump this thread and snigger at the football experts who want 12M for him. 

[HKsaint]

Hope our back pass training will not have any negative effect on Che

[ally_uk]

15 million? You having a Turkish bath! 40 minimum ....

[Chez]

1 hour ago, LiberalCommunist said:

We need to keep Che, just so we can bump this thread and snigger at the football experts who want 12M for him. 

don't recall seeing any posters on here saying we should sell for £12m.

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, LiberalCommunist said:

We need to keep Che, just so we can bump this thread and snigger at the football experts who want 12M for him. 

We’ve got too many clueless fans who look at his goal return and just assume he’s shit without actually understanding everything else he brings to the team. Probably the same helmets who regularly scream we need a 15-20 goal a season striker why why why can’t we sign one. 

[beatlesaint]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

We’ve got too many clueless fans who look at his goal return and just assume he’s shit without actually understanding everything else he brings to the team. Probably the same helmets who regularly scream we need a 15-20 goal a season striker why why why can’t we sign one. 

Presumably that goes for the manager who has been reluctant to pick him and therefore doesn’t understand everything else he brings to the team then?

[Turkish]

18 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Presumably that goes for the manager who has been reluctant to pick him and therefore doesn’t understand everything else he brings to the team then?

We all know Ralph makes some very strange decisions. I’m still baffled by playing Redmond up front ahead of Adams in the FA cup semi final.

[Bad Wolf]

34 minutes ago, Turkish said:

We’ve got too many clueless fans who look at his goal return and just assume he’s shit without actually understanding everything else he brings to the team. Probably the same helmets who regularly scream we need a 15-20 goal a season striker why why why can’t we sign one. 

"A proven 20 goal a season striker with 5 years Premier League experience for £5 Million" - WHY WON'T RALPH SIGN ONE OF THOSE?! THEY'RE SO EASY TO COME BY!!!

[Harry_SFC]

45 minutes ago, Turkish said:

We all know Ralph makes some very strange decisions. I’m still baffled by playing Redmond up front ahead of Adams in the FA cup semi final.

That was just a massive "wtf" moment that set the tone for the whole game. 

[saintant]

Said earlier on here that I still believe Che has it in him to score a decent number of goals in this league. Two yesterday as a second half sub is a great start and let's hope he can carry on. If he can add more goals he's going to be some player because the rest of his game is right up there. Also, might be wrong but in the photo I've seen of him celebrating a goal yesterday he looks to have bulked up and added muscle.

[Saint_clark]

11 minutes ago, saintant said:

Said earlier on here that I still believe Che has it in him to score a decent number of goals in this league. Two yesterday as a second half sub is a great start and let's hope he can carry on. If he can add more goals he's going to be some player because the rest of his game is right up there. Also, might be wrong but in the photo I've seen of him celebrating a goal yesterday he looks to have bulked up and added muscle.

Indeed, he's got 35 games now to score more than 6 and improve upon last seasons tally. If he keeps his confidence up - and Ralph actually keeps picking him - I can see him getting 15, which despite what people think is a very, very good tally for a striker in a team outside the top 6. It's good even for some top 6 teams.

[Smirking_Saint]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

We’ve got too many clueless fans who look at his goal return and just assume he’s shit without actually understanding everything else he brings to the team. Probably the same helmets who regularly scream we need a 15-20 goal a season striker why why why can’t we sign one. 

Exactly, his first involvement yesterday was to back into and occupy Evans, hold him off and do a give a go which led to a dangerous attack

His inclusion changed our attacking shape entirely, and thats what he brings.. obviously yesterday he could of had a hattrick… he was electric when he came on

[Smirking_Saint]

3 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

Presumably that goes for the manager who has been reluctant to pick him and therefore doesn’t understand everything else he brings to the team then?

I didn’t understand why we played two similar strikers up top yesterday, they just made similar runs and neither offered an out ball

I was calling out for Che’s inclusion repeatedly yesterday… and predictably he changed the game

So yeah I don’t really understand Ralphs choice but I think it had something to do with his lack of training time 

[Saint Garrett]

12 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

I didn’t understand why we played two similar strikers up top yesterday, they just made similar runs and neither offered an out ball

I was calling out for Che’s inclusion repeatedly yesterday… and predictably he changed the game

So yeah I don’t really understand Ralphs choice but I think it had something to do with his lack of training time 

Think he could only play about half hour. So decided to bring him on rather than having to take him off. Also fully looked like he was trying to prove a point. Fingers crossed he earns his new contract, could be a great striker for us this season. 

[Smirking_Saint]

2 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

Think he could only play about half hour. So decided to bring him on rather than having to take him off. Also fully looked like he was trying to prove a point. Fingers crossed he earns his new contract, could be a great striker for us this season. 

I honestly think if he is given a consistent run and Ralph avoids dropping him mid purple patches then he can kick on and get 15 goals this year

But I like him for more than his goals, he is a handful

[Turkish]

3 hours ago, Smirking_Saint said:

I honestly think if he is given a consistent run and Ralph avoids dropping him mid purple patches then he can kick on and get 15 goals this year

But I like him for more than his goals, he is a handful

Im sure Ralph droped him last season  right during a good run. Really strange. Definitely reckon there is a 12-15 goal a season striker there if he’d used right 

[Chez]

14 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Im sure Ralph droped him last season  right during a good run. Really strange. Definitely reckon there is a 12-15 goal a season striker there if he’d used right 

He scored 3 in 6 in November/start of December and then wasn't in the squad at all for next two games - you have to assume that was due to injury/illness rather than being dropped as he then played 9 minutes and then was out of the squad again for next game. He then got 25 minutes off the bench in the next, scoring, then 45 off the bench, then the full 90. 

 

 

[saintant]

Another two goals tonight. It would be madness to sell Che.

[saintant]

He's becoming a real poacher - in the right spot at the right time. 

[skintsaint]

6 hours ago, saintant said:

Another two goals tonight. It would be madness to sell Che.

Yep, 4 goals this season now. Would have added some value on that fucking 15m.

[hypochondriac]

8 hours ago, saintant said:

Another two goals tonight. It would be madness to sell Che.

It would only be acceptable if it was for something like 40 million. Even then I wouldn't want it to happen. 

[Midfield_General]

Copying over from the general transfer thread:

Got a nasty feeling Che may end up Everton - but for a much bigger fee than was originally being discussed. 

Chelsea are going to throw silly money at the Gordon deal. Everton desperately need a striker. Che goes into the last year of his contract next year and for one reason or another it seems we were ready to listen to offers for him two weeks ago. 

If Everton come in with the sort of big, desperate offer that they’re so good at, I still think we’ll sell. His current purple patch may just be seen as a fortuitous opportunity to crank the price up on a player we were prepared to move on anyway. 

I really hope not, as I really like him, but I could see that being seen to make longer-term business sense. I think we do need to sell someone to help fund the other signings, and no-one’s biting on the players we really don’t want. 

As I say - I hope not, as I think he’s shown what a valuable player he is for us. And we’d need to be very confident about the player(s) we brought in to replace him. 

[badgerx16]

Whatever Everton get for Gordon is our asking price for Che. Nothing less.

[Chez]

"This is a good message from him to show up here, show that he is always the guy here who can score his goals. We know what we have with Che and after a not so good pre-season, he is now on fire."

Rather than it being a case Ralph not rating Che highly and perhaps wanting to upgrade and maybe easing him out the door to help fund that upgrade, it seems to be a case of Che failing to impress him in pre season training, and subsequently not giving him many minutes in pre season games. AA the inverse. Ralph said at the fans forum that if a player is impressing in training he will get a chance - hence AA starting pre season games. He;'s impressed him in the games, so now he gets the starting berth. 

 

 

 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

6 minutes ago, Chez said:

"This is a good message from him to show up here, show that he is always the guy here who can score his goals. We know what we have with Che and after a not so good pre-season, he is now on fire."

Rather than it being a case Ralph not rating Che highly and perhaps wanting to upgrade and maybe easing him out the door to help fund that upgrade, it seems to be a case of Che failing to impress him in pre season training, and subsequently not giving him many minutes in pre season games. AA the inverse. Ralph said at the fans forum that if a player is impressing in training he will get a chance - hence AA starting pre season games. He;'s impressed him in the games, so now he gets the starting berth. 

 

 

 

Sounds like decent management from Ralph. 

[Chez]

17 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Sounds like decent management from Ralph. 

agreed. If you don't give players hope of a start if they impress in training, then there is no incentive. And training does involve games and attack versus defence situations, so you do get a good idea of how a player is performing.

I still wonder about the contract situation. Have Saints made an extension offer that has been declined perhaps? Unless it was mega money, its likely the agent will tell the player to sit tight. They are in the driving seat. Alternatively, perhaps Saints haven't made him a contract offer as they really are looking to upgrade.  Hard to know from the outside what the situation is.

 

Edited 25 August, 2022 by Chez

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

17 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Sounds like decent management from Ralph. 

If only  the same principles could be applied to ralph himself..he would have dropped himself a long time ago 

[Bakovnetski]

3 hours ago, Chez said:

agreed. If you don't give players hope of a start if they impress in training, then there is no incentive. And training does involve games and attack versus defence situations, so you do get a good idea of how a player is performing.

I still wonder about the contract situation. Have Saints made an extension offer that has been declined perhaps? Unless it was mega money, its likely the agent will tell the player to sit tight. They are in the driving seat. Alternatively, perhaps Saints haven't made him a contract offer as they really are looking to upgrade.  Hard to know from the outside what the situation is.

 

Didn't I read somewhere that Semmens said we would not discuss any contracts until after the transfer window closes?

[verlaine1979]

Looked like he could play as a lone striker against Chelsea. Won lots of headers, backed into their CBs and held up the ball well. Spent both Wolves and Villa games in the pocket of ostensibly far inferior centre backs. Coming just before Tuchel getting the boot, were Chelsea defenders on a go-slow?

[Give it to Ron]

1 hour ago, verlaine1979 said:

Looked like he could play as a lone striker against Chelsea. Won lots of headers, backed into their CBs and held up the ball well. Spent both Wolves and Villa games in the pocket of ostensibly far inferior centre backs. Coming just before Tuchel getting the boot, were Chelsea defenders on a go-slow?

Difference was the full backs didn’t get forward far enough. Gerrard snuffed out KWP threat who had a terrible game for him. Dispossessed at least 3 times in bad areas.

Only ball Che had was punted from deep that makes it so much easy for 2 big Villa defenders. 

[verlaine1979]

34 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

Difference was the full backs didn’t get forward far enough. Gerrard snuffed out KWP threat who had a terrible game for him. Dispossessed at least 3 times in bad areas.

Only ball Che had was punted from deep that makes it so much easy for 2 big Villa defenders. 

But it's not like we didn't punt plenty up to Che against Chelsea that he actually won lots either with his head or chest. I'm not so much talking about whether he laid the ball off effectively against Wolves or Villa - he simply never won the ball in the first place. Which is odd, as you'd think Silva and Koulibaly would come out top in that physical and technical battle every time.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

Che is an average to below average Prem striker. He's doing exactly as well as anyone could expect. Hence why it was a big fail for Sports Republic not to get in an above average striker for the season. Can't blame Che. He is what he is.

Edited 20 September, 2022 by Golac's Cunning Stunts

[SNSUN]

4 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Looked like he could play as a lone striker against Chelsea. Won lots of headers, backed into their CBs and held up the ball well. Spent both Wolves and Villa games in the pocket of ostensibly far inferior centre backs. Coming just before Tuchel getting the boot, were Chelsea defenders on a go-slow?

I like Che and I think he has a lot to offer as a "second" striker and wonder if he would form a decent partnership with Mara, but he was shockingly bad against Villa. I wonder if that handball that should have been the easiest goal he'd ever scored in his life had affected his game. That handball effectively cost us a point against Wolves and gave them all 3. He shouldn't be our main goal threat UNLESS we have very good, goal-scoring AMs. Which we don't... unless Aribo can find some form.

[Noodles34]

This thread has changed since he scored 2 at Leicester 

[Turkish]

4 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Looked like he could play as a lone striker against Chelsea. Won lots of headers, backed into their CBs and held up the ball well. Spent both Wolves and Villa games in the pocket of ostensibly far inferior centre backs. Coming just before Tuchel getting the boot, were Chelsea defenders on a go-slow?

Difference is at wolves and Villa he was completely isolated no one anywhere near him, at Chelsea he had midfielders playing further up the pitch. Plus against Villa particularly our passing forward was awful, how may times did a long ball go harmlessly out of play or through to their keeper? It was dire

[verlaine1979]

23 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Difference is at wolves and Villa he was completely isolated no one anywhere near him, at Chelsea he had midfielders playing further up the pitch. Plus against Villa particularly our passing forward was awful, how may times did a long ball go harmlessly out of play or through to their keeper? It was dire

How does the presence of other players higher up the pitch increase the number of headers and balls played in at feet/chest height that he controls? It's not like he was jumping against two players at once against Villa and Wolves. He just lost all of his aerial duels in those games while he seemed to win several against Chelsea. 

Maybe the quality of our long passing was much better against Chelsea, but it seems unlikely to have made such a difference that he'd be bullying Koulibaly one week and getting bossed by Mings the next.

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

How does the presence of other players higher up the pitch increase the number of headers and balls played in at feet/chest height that he controls? It's not like he was jumping against two players at once against Villa and Wolves. He just lost all of his aerial duels in those games while he seemed to win several against Chelsea. 

Maybe the quality of our long passing was much better against Chelsea, but it seems unlikely to have made such a difference that he'd be bullying Koulibaly one week and getting bossed by Mings the next.

If you don’t know why a striker would be more effective if they weren’t completely isolated for the entire game then I’m afraid I can’t help you. 

[washsaint]

We could have Haaland up front and it would not make the slightest difference.  If no-one is creating anything for strikers they are not going to score.

Yes Che had a nightmare against Wolves but against Villa he had zero service.  Which was not surprising with weaklings A Armstrong, Moi and Djeneppo "supporting" him.

[Killers Knee]

Adams played really well for Scotland v Ukraine, lots of creative energy but no end product.  Missed another pair of easy headers.   The lad is physically strong but mentally weak.

[S-Clarke]

11 hours ago, Killers Knee said:

Adams played really well for Scotland v Ukraine, lots of creative energy but no end product.  Missed another pair of easy headers.   The lad is physically strong but mentally weak.

He did some good work up to the final touch, much as the same with us. I'd have to say it was simiar for Stu Armstrong too, he couldn't seem to hit a barn door either.

For Che though It must be infurating for him to be subbed and then watch his replacement score 2 goals against the same team. And Dykes is playing his trade at a lower level.

Che is just not clinical what so ever, he needs to be paired with someone who is otherwise there will be lots of ''how did he miss that?'' ''weak shot by Che'' commentary on every game.

[Micky]

3 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

He did some good work up to the final touch, much as the same with us. I'd have to say it was simiar for Stu Armstrong too, he couldn't seem to hit a barn door either.

For Che though It must be infurating for him to be subbed and then watch his replacement score 2 goals against the same team. And Dykes is playing his trade at a lower level.

Che is just not clinical what so ever, he needs to be paired with someone who is otherwise there will be lots of ''how did he miss that?'' ''weak shot by Che'' commentary on every game.

Arguably Stu had much better chances than Che, two first time shots that he should've placed better and tested the keeper more, the neat one two that gets him 8 yard out that he blazed over the bar and the header from about 6 yards that he should've absolutely buried - all very decent chances.  Che missing the two headers just about summed up a night of the Southampton strike force, lots of promise but absolutely no composure to finish clinically.

[John B]

5 hours ago, Micky said:

Arguably Stu had much better chances than Che, two first time shots that he should've placed better and tested the keeper more, the neat one two that gets him 8 yard out that he blazed over the bar and the header from about 6 yards that he should've absolutely buried - all very decent chances.  Che missing the two headers just about summed up a night of the Southampton strike force, lots of promise but absolutely no composure to finish clinically.

But no doubt it was Ralph's fault

[qwertyell]

9 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

For Che though It must be infurating for him to be subbed and then watch his replacement score 2 goals against the same team. And Dykes is playing his trade at a lower level.

Che is just not clinical what so ever, he needs to be paired with someone who is otherwise there will be lots of ''how did he miss that?'' ''weak shot by Che'' commentary on every game.

He's just Shane Long without the pace or aerial ability. Doubt there's much more to come from him in terms of development.

The fact that he's become our main striker is a damning indictment of the entire club.

[East Kent Saint]

12 hours ago, qwertyell said:

He's just Shane Long without the pace or aerial ability. Doubt there's much more to come from him in terms of development.

The fact that he's become our main striker is a damning indictment of the entire club.

Aerial ability ? That passed me by !!

[verlaine1979]

On 20/09/2022 at 11:10, Turkish said:

If you don’t know why a striker would be more effective if they weren’t completely isolated for the entire game then I’m afraid I can’t help you. 

So having players close helps you win more headers? Not sure what use support is when Che is so in the defender's pocket doesn't even get to touch the ball. Moral support, I guess.

[Wurzel]

46 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

So having players close helps you win more headers? Not sure what use support is when Che is so in the defender's pocket doesn't even get to touch the ball. Moral support, I guess.

You're marked and isolated on your own, a long ball is pumped up to you. You have one option, to head/chest the ball in a controlled manner in the one direction and distance that ensures you also get the next  touch. Piece of piss for the defender who knows exactly what you will do. He doesn't even need to win the header, just do enough to stop you doing what you need to do ( a little nudge or hold down, not enough to give away a free kick is often enough) and he or a defensive colleague win the ball back.

You're marked but have one or more colleagues within 10 yards alongside you, a long ball is pumped up to you. You have options, head it sideways to him, flick it on for his run, control it yourself. Defender has no idea what you will try and can't make a decision without waiting for your move (or run risk of a free kick by going straight through you regardless), straight away you have much better chance of winning the header .

Hardly rocket science is it?

[Whitey Grandad]

45 minutes ago, Wurzel said:

You're marked and isolated on your own, a long ball is pumped up to you. You have one option, to head/chest the ball in a controlled manner in the one direction and distance that ensures you also get the next  touch. Piece of piss for the defender who knows exactly what you will do. He doesn't even need to win the header, just do enough to stop you doing what you need to do ( a little nudge or hold down, not enough to give away a free kick is often enough) and he or a defensive colleague win the ball back.

You're marked but have one or more colleagues within 10 yards alongside you, a long ball is pumped up to you. You have options, head it sideways to him, flick it on for his run, control it yourself. Defender has no idea what you will try and can't make a decision without waiting for your move (or run risk of a free kick by going straight through you regardless), straight away you have much better chance of winning the header .

Hardly rocket science is it?

It’s a lot easier for four defenders to mark one player than it is to mark two.

[qwertyell]

4 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

It’s a lot easier for four defenders to mark one player than it is to mark two.

Unless those four defenders play for Saints.

[East Kent Saint]

I seem to remember , more than once , 5 or so Saints defenders around the 6 yd area while the only attacker heads in a goal from a cross/corner.