Other Games - 2020/2021

[S-Clarke]

Sheffield United are full of half decent Championship players and a sprinkling of L1 players. They are absolutely out of their depth.

Their biggest attacking threat came from their sub, David McGoldrick - I think that says all you need to know about the quality they don't have. They were relegated in October tbh.

Edited 20 February, 2021 by S-Clarke

[SuperSAINT]

26 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

How do you think Newcastle fans are feeling 😃

Newcastle’s last 2 fixtures 👀 

[Saint Pete]

Just seen that incident near the end when Sheff U should have had a penalty but ref gave a foul on the keeper.

What the fuck is the point in VAR if they can't get that right and reverse it? Clear as day penalty.

[Whitey Grandad]

12 hours ago, Saint Pete said:

Just seen that incident near the end when Sheff U should have had a penalty but ref gave a foul on the keeper.

What the fuck is the point in VAR if they can't get that right and reverse it? Clear as day penalty.

Clear to you maybe but not to everybody else. The keeper got the ball first. Therefore it’s more likely to be a foul on the keeper than the other way round.

[Lord Duckhunter]

13 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Clear to you maybe but not to everybody else. The keeper got the ball first. Therefore it’s more likely to be a foul on the keeper than the other way round.

If it was any other player, it would have been called a foul. He was not in control and used excessive force. How many times are we told that if you endanger an opponent by making a tackle you’re not in control of, its a foul, regardless of whether you win the ball or not. It was reckless, endangered an opponent, and was out of control. If that was OR in the centre of the park, it would have been a foul and a yellow. 

[igsey]

Spurs losing to WHam and they look shocking.

[Lighthouse]

That’s gotta sting. 😯

[Turkish]

WTF does Bale look like these days.

[Matthew Le God]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

WTF does Bale look like these days.

[East Kent Saint]

Only a few points behind Spurs today ! and a yellow card for Hoj  ....

[The Cat]

Spurs now 9th, only 2 points ahead of an Arsenal team they were all laughing at earlier in the season. 

Fair play to West Ham.

[benjii]

Do their fans still think Hojbjerg is great?

[S-Clarke]

When are people in charge of 'big' clubs going to realise that Jose is a busted flush?

His methods went out of the window by the end of the 'noughties'. He has not moved on and is nothing but a journeyman defensive manager. Certainly not worth the wage his previous reputation demands.

[bpsaint]

I’d have called them mad if someone told me West Ham would finish so far ahead of us this season with Moyes still at the helm. That League 1 standard at best Michail Antonio is such an important player for them.

 

The table is nuts, Liverpool could out the European places by next Monday depending on results. Mental.

[Badger]

10 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

When are people in charge of 'big' clubs going to realise that Jose is a busted flush?

His methods went out of the window by the end of the 'noughties'. He has not moved on and is nothing but a journeyman defensive manager. Certainly not worth the wage his previous reputation demands.

Poor Spurs and Daniel Levy having to pay massive compensation to Jose if they get rid. 

[S-Clarke]

10 minutes ago, Badger said:

Poor Spurs and Daniel Levy having to pay massive compensation to Jose if they get rid. 

Isn't it something insane like £30m compo??? Crazy owners thinking he is still relevant! 

They should have gone for someone like Naglesmen when Poch went.

[East Kent Saint]

Villa also standing still in the league ..... 0-2 now

[S-Clarke]

Just now, East Kent Saint said:

Villa also standing still in the league ..... 0-2 now

They're without Grealish now for 5-6 weeks and Matty Cash for 5 or so weeks. It's the same old story for the likes of Us, Villa etc in the middle pack - we both have the potential to break thorough - but we can be hurt too easily by injuries to key players.

I'd say Villa have a bit more depth than us though, but then you can't really replace Grealish with a like for like.

[Badger]

1 minute ago, East Kent Saint said:

Villa also standing still in the league ..... 0-2 now

Annoying thing about Leicester is that is how we could be, and might have been. But they're a well run club with an ambitious owner  and not handicapped by the Les Reed years. 

 

[East Kent Saint]

Hmmm 1-2 already !

[Lord Duckhunter]

53 minutes ago, Badger said:

Annoying thing about Leicester is that is how we could be, and might have been. But they're a well run club with an ambitious owner  and not handicapped by the Les Reed years. 

 

Yeah, fucking Reed not spending his money. We’d have won the league if he’d put his hand in his pocket. 

[Teddeer]

1 hour ago, benjii said:

Do their fans still think Hojbjerg is great?

Hojbjerg must have the easiest job in football. Receive the ball and play a simple five yard pass, wash, rinse and repeat.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Just now, Teddeer said:

Hojbjerg must have the easiest job in football. Receive the ball and play a simple five yard pass, wash, rinse and repeat.

And wave hands about. 

[SupersonicSaint]

52 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

And wave hands about. 

Spurs may have lost today but Højbjerg ranks first in the league for frustrated claps per 90. #passion

[JRM]

2 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Isn't it something insane like £30m compo??? Crazy owners thinking he is still relevant! 

They should have gone for someone like Naglesmen when Poch went.

Spurs fans I know are getting worried , paying Bale a fortune, huge amounts owed on stadium repayments (they took a covid loan from bank of England to help that) , wouldn't surprise me if Spurs get through a couple more rounds of Europa league before going out in the 1/4s,  lose league cup final to Man City, and end up with another trophy-less season and possibly no European football next season, would put a big hole in their finances, they'd have to sell to fund a move for Ings even with a cut price deal. 

They've got a kinder run of league games coming up but confidence has gone. 

Edited 21 February, 2021 by JRM

[Turkish]

3 hours ago, Badger said:

Annoying thing about Leicester is that is how we could be, and might have been. But they're a well run club with an ambitious owner  and not handicapped by the Les Reed years. 

 

The Les Reed years that saw back to back promotions, 2 8th placed finishes, 6th and 7th, a first major cup final in 14 years and two seasons of European football you mean? 

[Cartman]

Anyone else get a nice, warm fuzzy feeling when you remember that Levy sacked Poch to hire a past it, loose cannon Mourinho?

[SW5 SAINT]

4 hours ago, Badger said:

Poor Spurs and Daniel Levy having to pay massive compensation to Jose if they get rid. 

Probably a fraction of what they are paying Bale to warm the bench and hang about the treatment room.......

[whelk]

1 hour ago, SW5 SAINT said:

Probably a fraction of what they are paying Bale to warm the bench and hang about the treatment room.......

He was their best player when he came on. Mourinho doesn’t want to attack with gay abandon but when they do they look decent.

[whelk]

4 hours ago, Badger said:

Annoying thing about Leicester is that is how we could be, and might have been. But they're a well run club with an ambitious owner  and not handicapped by the Les Reed years. 

 

Is this a joke? 

[whelk]

February and league concluded and one relegation place left. Poor old Sky will have to do their best that we are watching gripping games.

Utd can look like a relegation team at times. 
 

dinosaur Bruce doing well against Utd.

[Teddeer]

Diving little shit Rashford and of course Utd get the penalty.

[CB Fry]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

Is this a joke? 

You don't employ managers like Craig Shakespeare and Claude Puel without running a pretty tight ship, I can tell you.

 

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

He was their best player when he came on. Mourinho doesn’t want to attack with gay abandon but when they do they look decent.

Great point until you made it homophobic 

[Badger]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Is this a joke? 

No, they have in recent seasons been in the top half, often pushing for Europe. 

29 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

You don't employ managers like Craig Shakespeare and Claude Puel without running a pretty tight ship, I can tell you.

 

Fair point but they seem to have come out of the other side of that experience intact and now stringer. That’s two poor appointments to contrast with three we had after Koeman left before Ralph arrived to steady the ship. Like us they now have a better manager who is likely to be sought after but don’t appear to have left themselves financially up shit creek in the process. 

Leicester have managed to retain many of their better players they want to keep (albeit by paying higher wages than us) and where they have sold (Maguire) have made decent investments (Maguire barely missed, Maddison not Elyounoussi, £40m was it for Tielimans ?).

Think it’s a case of red and white striped glasses not to see they’ve managed things better over the last few years and are in a better position because of it. 

 

 

[bpsaint]

53 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Diving little shit Rashford and of course Utd get the penalty.

Analysing the shit out of it on whatever stream I’m watching, how they give that as a penalty but not the foul by Maguire at 5he other end is farcical. 

I was all for VAR and believe in the technology, but I’m in the ‘its ruining the game’ camp. If they’re not going to get some ex pros into Stockley park, or even have a team of 3 watching each game so there’s always a deciding vote it needs to be scrapped.

[Ted Bates Statue]

Radio 5 commentator on the Man City v Arsenal game claiming not to know the meaning of 'ominous'. "It's a big word", apparently.

For the health of certain posters on here, I won't be divulging her identity.

[Badger]

6 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

Analysing the shit out of it on whatever stream I’m watching, how they give that as a penalty but not the foul by Maguire at 5he other end is farcical. 

I was all for VAR and believe in the technology, but I’m in the ‘its ruining the game’ camp. If they’re not going to get some ex pros into Stockley park, or even have a team of 3 watching each game so there’s always a deciding vote it needs to be scrapped.

One of the hopes of VAR was that it might remove the ‘big club bias’ and allow an objective review of an incident.

All it seems to have done is move the ‘bias’ to Stockley Park, and bring in a new strand of incompetence.

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, Badger said:

One of the hopes of VAR was that it might remove the ‘big club bias’ and allow an objective review of an incident.

All it seems to have done is move the ‘bias’ to Stockley Park, and bring in a new strand of incompetence.

Yep, all I see is big clubs still getting the decisions, it just takes longer or they don’t bother reviewing. Most recent examples Bertrand and Djenepo sent off for identical tackles made by Werner and Kante yesterday, I don’t think any of them should have been sendings off but if one is then they all are. You rarely see it the other way round when a controversial VAR decision goes against a big club, it’s always them getting ones in their favour.

Edited 21 February, 2021 by Turkish

[Badger]

4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Yep, all I see is big clubs still getting the decisions, it just takes longer or they don’t bother reviewing. Most recent examples Bertrand and Djenepo sent off for identical tackles made by Werner and Kante yesterday, I don’t think any of them should have been sendings off but if one is then they all are. You rarely see it the other way round when a controversial VAR decision goes against a big club, it’s always them getting ones in their favour.

The two tackles on Djenepo yesterday were easily on par with the one he was sent off for against Newcastle last season.

Edited 21 February, 2021 by Badger

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, Badger said:

The two tackles on Djenepo yesterday were easily on par with the one he was sent off for against Newcastle last season.

Another couple of idiotic VAR rules are apparently some of the decisions that have gone against us recently with penalties have been excused by being not obvious enough errors, yet they’ll spend 5 minutes drawing lines to check milimetres difference on an offside. I also noticed yesterday a couple of times with the offside Rule Chelsea got corners when atttacks were ended but the player the ball went to was in an offside position. If a goal had been scored it’d be pulled back and a free kick given but because it wasn’t play carried on and Chelsea still gained an advantage by being awarded a corner, completely ridiculous that this can happen. They could easily score from the corner where they’ve committed an offense to win.

Edited 21 February, 2021 by Turkish

[CB Fry]

25 minutes ago, Badger said:

No, they have in recent seasons been in the top half, often pushing for Europe. 

Fair point but they seem to have come out of the other side of that experience intact and now stringer. That’s two poor appointments to contrast with three we had after Koeman left before Ralph arrived to steady the ship. Like us they now have a better manager who is likely to be sought after but don’t appear to have left themselves financially up shit creek in the process. 

Leicester have managed to retain many of their better players they want to keep (albeit by paying higher wages than us) and where they have sold (Maguire) have made decent investments (Maguire barely missed, Maddison not Elyounoussi, £40m was it for Tielimans ?).

Think it’s a case of red and white striped glasses not to see they’ve managed things better over the last few years and are in a better position because of it. 

 

 

I think the main point is they have more available resource than we have.

They have had on disastrous signings also - Slimani, Musa, etc - and some terrible managerial appointments.

But they can weather it with owners pumping enough money in to allow them to sign players just a little bit higher in quality than us. And an excellent manager.

If you think they won't ever again have a season like Spurs are having now, or we are having now or Newcastle are having now then you might be surprised.

Good luck to them.

 

 

 

[John Boy Saint]

10 hours ago, bpsaint said:

Analysing the shit out of it on whatever stream I’m watching, how they give that as a penalty but not the foul by Maguire at 5he other end is farcical. 

I was all for VAR and believe in the technology, but I’m in the ‘its ruining the game’ camp. If they’re not going to get some ex pros into Stockley park, or even have a team of 3 watching each game so there’s always a deciding vote it needs to be scrapped.

Rather bizarrely whilst watching the Arsenal v City game Sterling had marginally almost invisibly impeded a player, ref blows Sterling gets the arse and spikes the ball like a spoilt brat denied sweets by his Mum, and Moss just has a chat with him - Martin Tyler is amazed Sterling has gotten away without a card, then pipes up with a gem he should deliver more often - saying how certain players in certain teams  seem to get off much lighter than players in lesser teams or words to that effect - I immediately thought you just had to watch the assault on Djenepo the day before, Kante was a card, Werner I could see why not, Alonso got pinged, and Kovacic if that had been Romeu would have been carded.

[John D]

10 hours ago, CB Fry said:

I think the main point is they have more available resource than we have.

They have had on disastrous signings also - Slimani, Musa, etc - and some terrible managerial appointments.

But they can weather it with owners pumping enough money in to allow them to sign players just a little bit higher in quality than us. And an excellent manager.

If you think they won't ever again have a season like Spurs are having now, or we are having now or Newcastle are having now then you might be surprised.

Good luck to them.

 

 

 

 In the last five years to end 18/19 season Leicester's owners have not put any money in at all.  

Source: analysis of their financial accounts by Swiss Ramble on twitter

[CB Fry]

51 minutes ago, John D said:

 In the last five years to end 18/19 season Leicester's owners have not put any money in at all.  

Source: analysis of their financial accounts by Swiss Ramble on twitter

The Thais are spending millions on infrastructure, millions on players and millions on a top class manager.

All I said was they have more "available resource" than we have.

If you're going to pretend we have exactly the same available resource as Leicester City (5 year net transfer spend £194m : source The Swiss Ramble) then knock yourself out mate.

[DT]

14 hours ago, Turkish said:

Yep, all I see is big clubs still getting the decisions, it just takes longer or they don’t bother reviewing. Most recent examples Bertrand and Djenepo sent off for identical tackles made by Werner and Kante yesterday, I don’t think any of them should have been sendings off but if one is then they all are. You rarely see it the other way round when a controversial VAR decision goes against a big club, it’s always them getting ones in their favour.

Agree, although was expecting West Ham's goal against Spurs to be overturned but it wasn't. Guess Levy's speeddial wasn't working for once.

Djenepo non-cards was bizarre. Think he's a bit too honest. Needs to get angrier at refs, and Ralph needs to jump up and down a bit. Seems to work with some. The bawling that comes from the back-room boys at some clubs is very noticeable. Refs even seem to quake at them, never mind home crowds.

[aintforever]

14 hours ago, Badger said:

One of the hopes of VAR was that it might remove the ‘big club bias’ and allow an objective review of an incident.

All it seems to have done is move the ‘bias’ to Stockley Park, and bring in a new strand of incompetence.

I agree there is still some bias but in general I would say VAR has reduced it. I can remember quite a few times where one of the 'big six' has had a marginal decision go against them that never would have happened without VAR, especially some of the offsides.

If anything, VAR has shown up how useless on pitch officials are are getting decisions right. Someone watching on TV from multiple angles with the option of slow motion etc is so much better placed at judging than some middle aged blokes running around trying to keep up with play who have thousands of people shouting at them influencing their decision. I would probably make the VAR official the guy who makes the final call, or at least have more say TBH.

Edited 22 February, 2021 by aintforever

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, DT said:

Agree, although was expecting West Ham's goal against Spurs to be overturned but it wasn't. Guess Levy's speeddial wasn't working for once.

Djenepo non-cards was bizarre. Think he's a bit too honest. Needs to get angrier at refs, and Ralph needs to jump up and down a bit. Seems to work with some. The bawling that comes from the back-room boys at some clubs is very noticeable. Refs even seem to quake at them, never mind home crowds.

He needs to scream in agony as he goes down. If you see the stills of Mason Mount going down on Saturday you can see his mouth wide open in true play-acting style. And they're usually looking at the referee before they hit the ground.

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

I agree there is still some bias but in general I would say VAR has reduced it. I can remember quite a few times where one of the 'big six' has had a marginal decision go against them that never would have happened without VAR, especially some of the offsides.

If anything, VAR has shown up how useless on pitch officials are are getting decisions right. Someone watching on TV from multiple angles with the option of slow motion etc is so much better placed at judging than some middle aged blokes running around trying to keep up with play who have thousands of people shouting at them influencing their decision. I would probably make the VAR official the guy who makes the final call, or at least have more say TBH.

That's because you're watching it on TV too. Slow motion distorts the reality and the more you se a replay the more convinved you get that it must have been deliberate.

[Wurzel]

16 hours ago, bpsaint said:

Analysing the shit out of it on whatever stream I’m watching, how they give that as a penalty but not the foul by Maguire at 5he other end is farcical. 

I was all for VAR and believe in the technology, but I’m in the ‘its ruining the game’ camp. If they’re not going to get some ex pros into Stockley park, or even have a team of 3 watching each game so there’s always a deciding vote it needs to be scrapped.

I've said it in the past but I'd prefer scrap VAR completely, have 4 linesmen (assistant referees) one in each quarter. Every incident then gets 3 view points, one from left touchline, one from right touchline and one from the ref roughly in the centre. If ref is unsure then majorirty decision decides it. They'll still get the odd one wrong (or debatable) but hey ... VAR?.

As with all other aspects of the game it can be replicated from the WC Final down to the most basic grass roots level (pros can make decision slightly quicker due to radio contacts but still wouldn't take more than a few seconds anyway without that.

Does @Whitey Grandad or any other ex ref think that's workable?

[sydney_saint]

38 minutes ago, Wurzel said:

I've said it in the past but I'd prefer scrap VAR completely, have 4 linesmen (assistant referees) one in each quarter. Every incident then gets 3 view points, one from left touchline, one from right touchline and one from the ref roughly in the centre. If ref is unsure then majorirty decision decides it. They'll still get the odd one wrong (or debatable) but hey ... VAR?.

As with all other aspects of the game it can be replicated from the WC Final down to the most basic grass roots level (pros can make decision slightly quicker due to radio contacts but still wouldn't take more than a few seconds anyway without that.

Does @Whitey Grandad or any other ex ref think that's workable?

I refereed to a reasonable level so I can help here. 

One thing to note is that a referee's positioning should already compensate for the lack of assistants in those two quadrants of the pitch. It is ten years since I quit, but I can't imagine the guidelines have changed all that much. Your general positioning as a ref is to run diagonally corner to corner from each side with no assistant. That means for each incident you should be covering one side of incident and the relevant assistant the other.

For example, if the ball is booted down the end with the assistant, you will be positioned more centrally, covering one angle, whilst the assistant covers a completely differently one. You kinda box in the incident if that makes sense. If it is booted down the end without the assistant, you move alot closer in, with one assistant looking down the line at the incident whilst the other one is looking straight across the pitch. You can then adjust to make sure your angle is unique to the two assistants.

Providing you are both fit and smart, you can cover a surprising number of angles between the three of you, and my gut is adding in two more is too many cooks. 

I also expect the referees analyse matches plenty to know roughly where to stand. We certainly did so I expect they are too. If you are playing a side that boots it into the Channel, you ain't going to get sucked too far down the pitch. If you are reffing a side that tries to play their way out and draw opposition in, aka us, you are going to make sure you get down that end of the play.

I don't doubt whether the EPL refs do alot of analysis and their positioning is smart.

I do wonder about the fitness side. Cos like a player, no matter how smart and intelligent your positioning is, at some point you are going to need to peg it. When I was reffing I was about the same pace and fitness as alot of the players. And I simply can't imagine reffing even that level in my 50s. Let alone trying to referee premier league! I know they have to pass fitness tests, but I also wonder if they haven't made them as tough as they probably should because, well, they wouldn't have enough refs.

 

 

 

Edited 22 February, 2021 by sydney_saint