Whitey Grandad Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 39 minutes ago, Wurzel said: I've said it in the past but I'd prefer scrap VAR completely, have 4 linesmen (assistant referees) one in each quarter. Every incident then gets 3 view points, one from left touchline, one from right touchline and one from the ref roughly in the centre. If ref is unsure then majorirty decision decides it. They'll still get the odd one wrong (or debatable) but hey ... VAR?. As with all other aspects of the game it can be replicated from the WC Final down to the most basic grass roots level (pros can make decision slightly quicker due to radio contacts but still wouldn't take more than a few seconds anyway without that. Does @Whitey Grandad or any other ex ref think that's workable? It might work and I would prefer it to VAR but getting the extra officials would be a problem at grass roots. There's enough trouble getting someone to run the line as it is. They experimented with officials behind the goals in some European competitions but they didn't last very long for some reason. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, sydney_saint said: I refereed to a reasonable level so I can help here. One thing to note is that a referee's positioning should already compensate for the lack of assistants in those two quadrants of the pitch. It is ten years since I quit, but I can't imagine the guidelines have changed. Your general positioning as a ref is to run diagonally corner to corner from each side with no assistant. That means for each incident you should be covering one side of incident and the relevant assistant the other. For example, if the ball is booted down the end with the assistant, you will be positioned more centrally, covering one angle, whilst the assistant covers a completely differently one. You kinda box in the incident if that makes sense. If it is booted down the end without the assistant, you move alot closer in, with one assistant looking down the line at the incident whilst the other one is looking straight across the pitch. You can then adjust to make sure your angle is unique to the two assistants. Providing you are both fit and smart, you can cover a surprising number of angles between the three of you, and my gut is adding in two more is too many cooks. I also expect the referees analyse matches plenty to know roughly where to stand. We certainly did so I expect they are too. If you are playing a side that boots it into the Channel, you ain't going to get sucked too far down the pitch. If you are reffing a side that tries to play their way out and draw opposition in, aka us, you are going to make sure you get down that end of the play. I don't doubt whether the EPL refs do alot of analysis and their positioning is smart. I do wonder about the fitness side. Cos like a player, no matter how smart and intelligent your positioning is, at some point you are going to need to peg it. When I was reffing I was about the same pace and fitness as alot of the players. And I simply can't imagine reffing even that level in my 50s. Let alone trying to referee premier league! I know they have to pass fitness tests, but I also wonder if they haven't made them as tough as they probably should because, well, they wouldn't have enough refs. I agree with you here. It's been some time for me too. Before the match all referees will onspect the field of play and I alwys liked to pace out the distances to the centre circle and from the corner flag to the penalty area to get some idea as to where the ball was likely to be landing. There is also the wind to think about. It's not long after kickoff that you find out what sort of a game you're going to get. Edited 22 February, 2021 by Whitey Grandad 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydney_saint Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said: I agree with you here. It's been some time for me too. Before the match all referees will onspect the field of play and I alwys liked to pace out the distances to the centre circle and from the corner flag to the penalty area to get some idea as to where the ball was likely to be landing. There is also the wind to think about. It's not long after kickoff that you find out what sort of a game you're going to get. Yep agree with that you know very quickly what sort of game to get. I'm not sure if you found it this as well, but I always found that it was easier to position when refereeing better matches. I remember one of the first matches I ever refereed was the over 35s Division 10. A bunch of overweight beer guzzling jokers, which for all the joking was probably the highest number of X rated tackles I've seen in a game. I was totally out of breath 30 minutes in trying to follow wherever they had they decided to lump that ball! Some of those 'passes' defied physics. A higher level games moves alot of faster. But also moves tactically Edited 22 February, 2021 by sydney_saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Force Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 VAR seemed to level the playing field for a while but it looks like it has slid back to favouring the big sides again. Some of the off side stuff with fingers or attackers but missing whole legs of defenders have made it a laughing stock. I think the idea of VAR is good the execution has been bad, hopefully they will change things, as poor execution can be fixed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERMUDASAINT Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 It's is the FA ( feck all) and its band of corrupted refs that is continuing to ruin the game for the smaller clubs. We seen it for decades. They get the calls because the big clubs are the lifeline of the EPL brand and no ones wants to upset the spoiled leadership! Finally technology could not be ignored and goal line and VAR came in. It gave all of the world the chance to review the refs call and in the beginning it was making them look foolish! Lesser teams were winning because of the wrong decision being corrected by VAR. But over the years VAR has been marginalized and neutered to nothingness! the FA and Refs have gained controll again, we can see the VAR incident but it will still be up to the refs interpretation! Corruption was to powerful over fairness again! I wish one of our fans with video editing skills can put a compilation of poor decisions against us and the comparible offense of bigger clubs getting away with it, if it goes viral maybe the world will see the injustice. WARNING: conspiracy theory! Since the threat on Mike deans life by possible a saints fan (one of the 2 clubs mentioned), we have have horrendous ref call against us. Has the fa and refs association have a target on us? Threaten the refs and you will go down! I hope not, but some of these calls look deliberately malicious against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said: That's because you're watching it on TV too. Slow motion distorts the reality and the more you se a replay the more convinved you get that it must have been deliberate. Apparently the VAR refs watch replays in actual speed precisely because of that reason, slow motion is purely to determine wether there was contact. Even with VAR there will be dodgy/debatable decisions because there is so much opinion involved, many grey areas and they are operated by humans who will always make mistakes. But VAR has undoubtable shown how poor on-field officials are at making the correct decisions, especially when it comes to offsides. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanh Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 17 hours ago, Turkish said: I also noticed yesterday a couple of times with the offside Rule Chelsea got corners when atttacks were ended but the player the ball went to was in an offside position. If a goal had been scored it’d be pulled back and a free kick given but because it wasn’t play carried on and Chelsea still gained an advantage by being awarded a corner, completely ridiculous that this can happen. They could easily score from the corner where they’ve committed an offense to win. This was a real irritant to me. I hate that the lino is not able to put his flag up when there is a clear offside, but for the 'offside' header that McCarthy pushed round the post to result in a corner because the flag didn't go up is farcical. At some point I predict something significant like a player injury will occur in a passage of play that should have been stopped by an earlier offiside then the crazy rule will be revised, but I hope it doesn't come to that before they see sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 1 hour ago, sydney_saint said: Yep agree with that you know very quickly what sort of game to get. I'm not sure if you found it this as well, but I always found that it was easier to position when refereeing better matches. I remember one of the first matches I ever refereed was the over 35s Division 10. A bunch of overweight beer guzzling jokers, which for all the joking was probably the highest number of X rated tackles I've seen in a game. I was totally out of breath 30 minutes in trying to follow wherever they had they decided to lump that ball! Some of those 'passes' defied physics. A higher level games moves alot of faster. But also moves tactically Better players are easier to referee becuse they are more predictable and less likel to go lumping the ball all over the place. That said, spme of the ex-professionals can be tricky and always trying to put one over on you. One of the last games that I did at Hamble had several of them. The central defemder from Plymouth was a joy to watch and to referee. I didn't know beforehand but when he pinged a diagonal ball right across the pitch straight as an arrow I glamced a quizzical look at him and he just gave me a smile. The centre forward was a lovely lad who had played for Luton and he was a laugh but as he admitted after the game, I didn't fall for all his tricks. The midfielder was a well-known overweight bundle who had played for several clubs including Portsmouth, Bournemouth, Carlisle, Villa, Brentford and Brighton and he was always trying to get one over you. Sly little handballs and shoves and nudges off the ball. It was very sad to watch. His team were winning by several goals and late on I unfortunately had to award them a penalty which this player decided to take. He attempted a Panenka but the keeper just stood there and let the ball drop into his hands. It would have taken a heart of stone not to laugh. A couple of years ago we shared a table on a cruise ship with a Scottish couple. David had been a top referee, Rangers/Celtic, UEFA, and all that sort of thing. When I mentioned this particular player he said that he had once refereed a friendly between St Mirren and Villa (1988) and his linesman had seen him punch a St Mirren player whilst he wasn't looking so he sent him off. After the game Graham Taylor came into his room and asked politely why he had been sent off. He told Taylor why and his reply was "Right. He'll never play for me again." And he didn't. I have the greatest respect for Graham Taylor after hearing that. 19 minutes ago, Alanh said: This was a real irritant to me. I hate that the lino is not able to put his flag up when there is a clear offside, but for the 'offside' header that McCarthy pushed round the post to result in a corner because the flag didn't go up is farcical. At some point I predict something significant like a player injury will occur in a passage of play that should have been stopped by an earlier offiside then the crazy rule will be revised, but I hope it doesn't come to that before they see sense. Just imagine if they had scored from that McCarthy corner. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 1 hour ago, Alanh said: This was a real irritant to me. I hate that the lino is not able to put his flag up when there is a clear offside, but for the 'offside' header that McCarthy pushed round the post to result in a corner because the flag didn't go up is farcical. At some point I predict something significant like a player injury will occur in a passage of play that should have been stopped by an earlier offiside then the crazy rule will be revised, but I hope it doesn't come to that before they see sense. It drives me mad that play will go on for sometimes 30 seconds before the linesman will put the flag up, just bloody well put it up. How they can give a corner when a player is blatantly offside is beyond me, it basically gives the other team a goal scoring opportunity when it should be a free kick to the defending team, it's ridiculous. VAR was meant to take the complexity away and make it easy but the stupid rules they've brought in have made it even more confusing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Alanh said: This was a real irritant to me. I hate that the lino is not able to put his flag up when there is a clear offside, but for the 'offside' header that McCarthy pushed round the post to result in a corner because the flag didn't go up is farcical. At some point I predict something significant like a player injury will occur in a passage of play that should have been stopped by an earlier offiside then the crazy rule will be revised, but I hope it doesn't come to that before they see sense. VAR isn’t just there to rule out offside goals, it’s to allow onside goals the Lino thinks are offside. How do you do this, without stopping the game when the officials thinks its offside? As for sat, that’s entirely down to the Lino, not VAR. the Lino is supposed to raise his flag after the play has broken down if he thinks it’s offside. So once McCarthy made the save he should have put the flag up, as he didn’t he obviously missed the offside. VAR’s offside remit is only to rule on goals, any offside that doesn’t result in a goal, remains with the onfield officials decision. In this case they made the decision onside, so a corner was the result (as it would have been with no VAR) Edited 22 February, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordic Saint Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 This statistic is quite remarkable for a team which is in the lower half of the table: Crystal Palace have not lost any of their last 22 Premier League games when leading at half-time (W18 D4) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiberalCommunist Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 BEST JINX EVER lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordic Saint Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 4 minutes ago, LiberalCommunist said: BEST JINX EVER lol There's probably another stat that shows without Zaha they never win. A draw would be the ideal result for us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manzo Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 9 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said: This statistic is quite remarkable for a team which is in the lower half of the table: Crystal Palace have not lost any of their last 22 Premier League games when leading at half-time (W18 D4) The question to ask here is "How many years does that cover?". It's like the points lost when winning stat; I wish that they would show how many games we've actually gone ahead in as well, as that shows quite a different narrative: Premier League - Points after taking lead 20/21 | Transfermarkt You can see that there are only 5 clubs who have gone ahead in more matches than us. Ok, I'm not saying that losing four games from a winning position is great, but I think that it provides some much needed context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 Really need this to stay 1-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 Palace really haven’t created much, which begs the question - Ayew Being Served. Edit: No sooner have I said, great finish there. Where was the marking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waylander Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 (edited) Except for Benteke! 2-1 Palace Edited 22 February, 2021 by waylander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 That was hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 That is an insane result. Brighton just do not score goals, that has been their issue all season long. They have absolutely dominated this game, Palace haven't touched them. Based on that, you worry for Brighton. If you can't win a game playing that well, then no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiberalCommunist Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 I think we should maybe win tomorrow, so we can stop looking at these teams jumping us in the table. Our bad run doesn't need to define our season, but we need to put it behind us bloody quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusic Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 Just now, LiberalCommunist said: I think we should maybe win tomorrow, so we can stop looking at these teams jumping us in the table. Our bad run doesn't need to define our season, but we need to put it behind us bloody quickly. Yeah table looks pretty awful considering what it was like 10 games ago. Some teams who have had rather poor seasons like Palace and Wolves now above us, and only the dross below... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordic Saint Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 51 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said: This statistic is quite remarkable for a team which is in the lower half of the table: Crystal Palace have not lost any of their last 22 Premier League games when leading at half-time (W18 D4) Make that 23. They certainly know how to defend a lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 22 February, 2021 Share Posted 22 February, 2021 I need to report a robbery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 23 February, 2021 Share Posted 23 February, 2021 8 hours ago, Dusic said: Yeah table looks pretty awful considering what it was like 10 games ago. Some teams who have had rather poor seasons like Palace and Wolves now above us, and only the dross below... Yes it would be nice to win the game in hand and be looking at the upper half of the table not the bottom for a bit. I think if we can get some form and confidence back, looking at our fixtures we could go on a bit of a run. I mean win tomorrow, despite our terrible form we are only 7 points off Liverpool in 6th! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 23 February, 2021 Share Posted 23 February, 2021 That was a ridiculous game last night, Roy Hodgson looked embarrassed to win it at the end, Brighton should have been out of sight. I can see Palace losing to Fulham at the weekend now and Brighton winning against West Brom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Tony Posted 23 February, 2021 Share Posted 23 February, 2021 feels like we've had nearly 2 seasons of Brighton 'playing well but not getting results'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 23 February, 2021 Share Posted 23 February, 2021 43 minutes ago, Saint_Tony said: feels like we've had nearly 2 seasons of Brighton 'playing well but not getting results'. Definitely an odd team, as they do a lot of things right, but just don't have the firepower to get them ahead when they're dominant...(remind you of anyone?) We've all seen over the last few years, how we've struggled to break teams down, we have a load of the ball then get suckerpunched with a late goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodymatt Posted 23 February, 2021 Share Posted 23 February, 2021 Brighton create a lot more chances than we do, they just can’t finish their dinner. If they had a goal scorer they would be top half comfortably. 25 shots last night, 5 on target. Palace did nothing all game. At half time they were 1-0 up with their only touch in Brighton’s box! Worrying when you lose games that way... For us to be below that Palace team is worrying too. They are so poor, especially without Zaha. Hoping we make tonight’s game in hand count and go back above them. Relegation shouldn’t really be a worry, but would be nice to put it to bed with a win against the league’s favourite team - ‘Dirty Leeds’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 23 February, 2021 Share Posted 23 February, 2021 Win tonight and we can start to look up. Lose and it will be more nervy games as teams at the bottom draw ever closer. So it's a massive one. Please win, Saints, and make it a 'bonus' run in... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 23 February, 2021 Share Posted 23 February, 2021 1 minute ago, DT said: Win tonight and we can start to look up. Lose and it will be more nervy games as teams at the bottom draw ever closer. So it's a massive one. Please win, Saints, and make it a 'bonus' run in... Jesus wept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 23 February, 2021 Share Posted 23 February, 2021 13 minutes ago, CB Fry said: Jesus wept. bellend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 23 February, 2021 Share Posted 23 February, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, DT said: bellend This coming from the man who in the past week is capable of shitting himself because he thinks we are getting relegated and at the same time shitting himself because he thinks our manager, the architect of that potential relegation, is going to be stolen from us by Tottenham. Utter moron. Edited 23 February, 2021 by CB Fry 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 23 February, 2021 Share Posted 23 February, 2021 I see England just beat Northern Ireland 6-0. Great result 👊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 23 February, 2021 Share Posted 23 February, 2021 1 hour ago, CB Fry said: This coming from the man who in the past week is capable of shitting himself because he thinks we are getting relegated and at the same time shitting himself because he thinks our manager, the architect of that potential relegation, is going to be stolen from us by Tottenham. Utter moron. bellend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Kent Saint Posted 25 February, 2021 Share Posted 25 February, 2021 Long scores again ! Although they lost at home .... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 25 February, 2021 Share Posted 25 February, 2021 Leicester pissing away their European season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris cooper Posted 25 February, 2021 Share Posted 25 February, 2021 So much for now Big club Leicester... out of europa league ! Bet they go on bad run now they are well overdue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picard Posted 26 February, 2021 Share Posted 26 February, 2021 9 hours ago, Chris cooper said: So much for now Big club Leicester... out of europa league ! Bet they go on bad run now they are well overdue! Saving themselves for the FA Cup unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Bates Statue Posted 26 February, 2021 Share Posted 26 February, 2021 That half red, half white Slavia Prague kit looks nice. Would look even better with a Saints badge on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddeer Posted 27 February, 2021 Share Posted 27 February, 2021 Just watched some of the Man City West Ham game. Although WH lost it was only 2-1 and they kept it quite tight while engineering a few chances themselves. What I noticed was the crisp way WH passed the ball - they weren't afraid to fizz it to each other. It reminded me of how we were playing before this slump and I'm convinced our passing now is much less firm almost as though we don't trust the recipient to deal with a strongly struck ball. Need to get back to having the confidence to fizz the ball around and stop the wishy washy tippy tappy stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawillwill Posted 27 February, 2021 Share Posted 27 February, 2021 21 hours ago, Ted Bates Statue said: That half red, half white Slavia Prague kit looks nice. Would look even better with a Saints badge on it. Saints badge on a Slavia Prague kit would be strange in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 27 February, 2021 Share Posted 27 February, 2021 Brighton seem to have copied our free kick routine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddeer Posted 27 February, 2021 Share Posted 27 February, 2021 Lee Mason at it again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawillwill Posted 27 February, 2021 Share Posted 27 February, 2021 1 minute ago, Lighthouse said: Brighton seem to have copied our free kick routine. There's has been over turned and given... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 27 February, 2021 Share Posted 27 February, 2021 Lee Mason all over the place here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obelisk Posted 27 February, 2021 Share Posted 27 February, 2021 Shambles with Lee Mason at WBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 27 February, 2021 Share Posted 27 February, 2021 Having rewound the video, he definitely blew the whistle a second time a fraction of a second before it crossed the line. They should disallow this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKD Posted 27 February, 2021 Share Posted 27 February, 2021 Just now, obelisk said: Shambles with Lee Mason at WBA. Has to be his final game, surely... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washsaint Posted 27 February, 2021 Share Posted 27 February, 2021 What an embarrassment our refs are! Mason is atrocious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 27 February, 2021 Share Posted 27 February, 2021 Why is he blowing his whistle twice? The bloke is an idiot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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