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Just not a very good goalie. Save to shots ratio must be very low. Doesn’t seem to be the right fit for the way Ralph wants to play. Problem is that Forster and Gunn are no better. With the money wasted on Gunn and Forsters extravagant wages surely there was a better option somewhere. 

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He was incredibly exposed, but like you say he's not the right sort of GK for the extreme way Ralph likes to play.

He's never been a sweeper keeper and never will be. Ralph would replace him if he could, I'm sure.

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He’s a number two, should be backup, but we’ve got ourselves into a mess where he starts every week. Only really good game I remember him having in the last year we lost anyway. 

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2 minutes ago, Appy said:

He’s a number two, should be backup, but we’ve got ourselves into a mess where he starts every week. Only really good game I remember him having in the last year we lost anyway. 

Be fair to Macca he had a blinder in the win over City , but he has got worse ,

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1 hour ago, johnnyboy said:

Be fair to Macca he had a blinder in the win over City , but he has got worse ,

That game slipped my mind to be fair. 

 

He cost us points at Arsenal home and away, Newcastle, West Ham and Man City. 

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4 minutes ago, Kenilworthy said:

As said previously, McCarthy would be great to have as a reserve keeper. He is just not a match-winning first choice keeper. But today's defeat was not down to the keeper.

Which is what he was signed as, the fact he’s first choice is down to the Incompetence of other two

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1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

Don't think he's been that bad really. Horribly exposed. But I'd bring back Gunn if we're going to play that high.

Agreed. Gunn was signed so we could play with a higher line. If McCarthy's shot stopping drops further, there's no reason not to go back to Gunn. At least he'd have snuffed out Son's first today.

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2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Which is what he was signed as, the fact he’s first choice is down to the Incompetence of other two

It's a sign of how much the squad has regressed and hasn't evolved since 2017.

Romeu was signed as a squad player, he's now a starter every week. Stephens was a reserve/squad centre back, he now starts every week.

McCarthy was signed as a backup goalkeeper, he now starts every week.

We've let the squad go to the shits because we're lumbered with the likes of Lemina, Hoedt, Carillo etc. But part of me is wondering if they are becoming part of an 'excuse', and we really are totally and utterly skint whatever their situations may be. When you cannot afford a loan for KWP without receiving a loan fee for Cedric first, it hinders you. We are always playing catch-up because we are never able to plan before a departure, we have to sell, make sure we have the cash, then get the player in.

Surely it's not asking for much to have a club that can evolve positions in it's squad without having to sell anything that moves first? I cannot think of another club in the PL that acts in this way, it really does make me wonder what really is going on sometimes. 

Edited by S-Clarke
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People's standards have got so low when it comes to discussing McCarthy. A couple of good games a season, a few saves here and there and they ignore how useless he is the rest of the time. 

When was the last time he had a match where he didn't pass to an opposition forward?

Why is it so easy to beat him? I'm not talking about the obvious errors, just how he goes down early and always makes the goal so big. Not a great attribute for a keeper. He was so hesitant for the first goal, it was pathetic decision making. Forster is so slow he probably wouldn't have come for it, but at least he tends to fill the goal more and make it smaller. Right now that's our best keeper. Fraser fcking Forster. 

We were really good first half and that goal killed us. It shouldn't. But it did, their heads completely went down giving away such a stupid soft goal. 

But what's the answer? We've got 3 keepers on big contracts, all rubbish in their own unique ways. McCarthy has never been here Forster at his best (which I still don't think was that great). Gunn has potential to improve (maybe?) and can pass better. But I'm so sick of watching McCarthy. He's like a terrified little lamb whenever anyone's near the goal. It's time to switch it up just to show we don't accept these performances, but I doubt we will.

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1 minute ago, adriansfc said:

People's standards have got so low when it comes to discussing McCarthy. A couple of good games a season, a few saves here and there and they ignore how useless he is the rest of the time. 

When was the last time he had a match where he didn't pass to an opposition forward?

Why is it so easy to beat him? I'm not talking about the obvious errors, just how he goes down early and always makes the goal so big. Not a great attribute for a keeper. He was so hesitant for the first goal, it was pathetic decision making. Forster is so slow he probably wouldn't have come for it, but at least he tends to fill the goal more and make it smaller. Right now that's our best keeper. Fraser fcking Forster. 

We were really good first half and that goal killed us. It shouldn't. But it did, their heads completely went down giving away such a stupid soft goal. 

But what's the answer? We've got 3 keepers on big contracts, all rubbish in their own unique ways. McCarthy has never been here Forster at his best (which I still don't think was that great). Gunn has potential to improve (maybe?) and can pass better. But I'm so sick of watching McCarthy. He's like a terrified little lamb whenever anyone's near the goal. It's time to switch it up just to show we don't accept these performances, but I doubt we will.

Heads didn’t go down at all that was nothing to do with it, it is simple, we got away with it first half second half we didn’t. First half they had the ball in the net twice before their goal both times ruled out for narrow offsides, then they scored 4 more times with exactly the same tactic and did the same thing time and again,  just the runs were better timed and balls were better quality. It was as simple as that. For about 50 minutes we were good going foward but with spurs sitting back in the lead knowing all they had to do was hit a ball in behind our two awful centre backs and Son time the run well they’d be in on goal it was like shooting fish in a barrel, embarrassingly naive and pathetic. 

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1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

It's a sign of how much the squad has regressed and hasn't evolved since 2017.

Romeu was signed as a squad player, he's now a starter every week. Stephens was a reserve/squad centre back, he now starts every week.

McCarthy was signed as a backup goalkeeper, he now starts every week.

We've let the squad go to the shits because we're lumbered with the likes of Lemina, Hoedt, Carillo etc. But part of me is wondering if they are becoming part of an 'excuse', and we really are totally and utterly skint whatever their situations may be. When you cannot afford a loan for KWP without receiving a loan fee for Cedric first, it hinders you. We are always playing catch-up because we are never able to plan before a departure, we have to sell, make sure we have the cash, then get the player in.

Surely it's not asking for much to have a club that can evolve positions in it's squad without having to sell anything that moves first? I cannot think of another club in the PL that acts in this way, it really does make me wonder what really is going on sometimes. 

The only club to make a profit from transfer dealings yet we still have to sell players to fund incomings and we’re in a mountain of debt, it’s quite incredible how badly we’ve been run. 

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1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

It's a sign of how much the squad has regressed and hasn't evolved since 2017.

Romeu was signed as a squad player, he's now a starter every week. Stephens was a reserve/squad centre back, he now starts every week.

McCarthy was signed as a backup goalkeeper, he now starts every week.

We've let the squad go to the shits because we're lumbered with the likes of Lemina, Hoedt, Carillo etc. But part of me is wondering if they are becoming part of an 'excuse', and we really are totally and utterly skint whatever their situations may be. When you cannot afford a loan for KWP without receiving a loan fee for Cedric first, it hinders you. We are always playing catch-up because we are never able to plan before a departure, we have to sell, make sure we have the cash, then get the player in.

Surely it's not asking for much to have a club that can evolve positions in it's squad without having to sell anything that moves first? I cannot think of another club in the PL that acts in this way, it really does make me wonder what really is going on sometimes. 

The only club to make a profit from transfer dealings yet we still have to sell players to fund incomings and we’re in a mountain of debt, it’s quite incredible how badly we’ve been run. 

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7 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

It's a sign of how much the squad has regressed and hasn't evolved since 2017.

Romeu was signed as a squad player, he's now a starter every week. Stephens was a reserve/squad centre back, he now starts every week.

McCarthy was signed as a backup goalkeeper, he now starts every week.

We've let the squad go to the shits because we're lumbered with the likes of Lemina, Hoedt, Carillo etc. But part of me is wondering if they are becoming part of an 'excuse', and we really are totally and utterly skint whatever their situations may be. When you cannot afford a loan for KWP without receiving a loan fee for Cedric first, it hinders you. We are always playing catch-up because we are never able to plan before a departure, we have to sell, make sure we have the cash, then get the player in.

Surely it's not asking for much to have a club that can evolve positions in it's squad without having to sell anything that moves first? I cannot think of another club in the PL that acts in this way, it really does make me wonder what really is going on sometimes. 

We don’t buy success, we breed it.

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McCarthy is nowhere near good enough, but I don't think Gunn or Forster are either.  Really, we should be looking to get rid of two of these, and bringing in a proper no 1. But thats wont happen. Pretty sure there must be a few better keepers in the championship.

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Apart from Ederson and Allison, are any keepers in the prem right now any good? The amount of goals going in seem to be high and a lot of the shots you watch scored aren't straight in the corners. Henderson maybe, but he apparently can't dislodge an error prone De Gea, Sheff Utd paid a lot for the Bournemouth keeper who didn't impress me much. 

I think a lot of keepers are products of their defences, what sort of shots and types of chances are allowed against them. At the end of the day whilst McCarthy is not top class, he's no worse than a lot of prem keepers but we just gave Spurs easy chances to score.

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7 hours ago, tajjuk said:

Apart from Ederson and Allison, are any keepers in the prem right now any good? The amount of goals going in seem to be high and a lot of the shots you watch scored aren't straight in the corners. Henderson maybe, but he apparently can't dislodge an error prone De Gea, Sheff Utd paid a lot for the Bournemouth keeper who didn't impress me much. 

I think a lot of keepers are products of their defences, what sort of shots and types of chances are allowed against them. At the end of the day whilst McCarthy is not top class, he's no worse than a lot of prem keepers but we just gave Spurs easy chances to score.

Patricio, Pope, Leno, Martinez, Lloris, Schmeichel, De Gea and Henderson are all very good goalkeepers. 

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Goalkeepers now seem so accident prone. I don't remember Banks, Shilton, Clemence  making the sort of errors we see almost every week now. Saints have not been noted for great goalies (I rate Shilton Niemi and Ian Black as the best) but I'd have done my nut at the mmistakes we've seen recently. Why the decline?

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51 minutes ago, Dellman said:

Goalkeepers now seem so accident prone. I don't remember Banks, Shilton, Clemence  making the sort of errors we see almost every week now. Saints have not been noted for great goalies (I rate Shilton Niemi and Ian Black as the best) but I'd have done my nut at the mmistakes we've seen recently. Why the decline?

lighter balls that travel quicker and move in the air, better pitches meaning balls travel quicker on the ground. Plus they did make mistakes but these days every game is on telly and mistakes are highlighted and regurgetated over and over again, back then you'd never see them unless they were one of the three games on match of the day.

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1 hour ago, Dellman said:

Goalkeepers now seem so accident prone. I don't remember Banks, Shilton, Clemence  making the sort of errors we see almost every week now. Saints have not been noted for great goalies (I rate Shilton Niemi and Ian Black as the best) but I'd have done my nut at the mmistakes we've seen recently. Why the decline?

Didn’t wear gloves back then. Do now. More mistakes now. Send McCarthy out gloveless.

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1 hour ago, Dellman said:

Goalkeepers now seem so accident prone. I don't remember Banks, Shilton, Clemence  making the sort of errors we see almost every week now. Saints have not been noted for great goalies (I rate Shilton Niemi and Ian Black as the best) but I'd have done my nut at the mmistakes we've seen recently. Why the decline?

From the depths of my declining memory I do recall a couple of very notable errors by Shilts and Clemence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncgwMnULG7E

this clip includes a goal from Micky Channon too 

and how about this one from Shilton:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi9vZCo215w

i couldn't recall any mistakes from Gordon Banks but I'm sure that there 1 or 2 out there. 

Enjoy the trips down memory lane. 

 

 

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There are some decent PL keepers and I would rate McCarthy as average vs his peers at best.  His strengths are his unflustered mentality and his shot stopping - in the 6 yard box he can pull off some stunning saves.

As for weaknesses, he is partial to flapping at crosses and his kicking is awful.  I can see why teams are keen to play this way to keep possession but being realistic, the only 2 that do it particularly well in England are Ederson and Alisson and look how much they cost. 

To watch AM try to learn to pass a ball at nearly 31 years of age is doomed to failure and has been an excruciating watch since the end of last season.   

This has only been compounded since the start of this season by asking him to play fucking sweeper, as we have somehow decided that it would be smart to play our defensive line somewhere around the half-way line.

Unfortunately given Ralph's comments after the 3rd loss on the spin (where we have been caught out in every single one), I see no sign of Ralph or Sparkes giving this tactic up anytime soon.

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39 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Forster back in goal at the weekend? 

Didn’t Forster lose his place in the first team after an equally awful performance in a 5-2 loss away at Spurs? It would be quite a coincidence if he got it back that way. 

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5 hours ago, Dellman said:

Goalkeepers now seem so accident prone. I don't remember Banks, Shilton, Clemence  making the sort of errors we see almost every week now. Saints have not been noted for great goalies (I rate Shilton Niemi and Ian Black as the best) but I'd have done my nut at the mmistakes we've seen recently. Why the decline?

Trying to play out from the back. It gives them too much to think about, poor dears.

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Those who fancy Gunn as a sweeper keeper have got short memories.  His decision-making coming off his line was woeful and he got caught out a few times.

If my keeper was a good shot-stopper, good on crosses, a good talker and decisive, I wouldn’t be that bothered that he can’t pass a ball like David Beckham.

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Goalkeeper rules were different , the kicking out of the ball was almost like a set piece. They could move round the box bouncing the ball and then launch the ball from the edge of the area. The outfielders had all gone up field awaiting the ball , sometimes all crowding on one side of the pitch !

The various rule changes from number of steps , limits of time to release the ball then the banning of back passes has lead to the modern keeper as sweeper . I'm not sure Saints have anyone who could play as sweeper in or out of goal .

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None of our 'keepers are suitable for a high-line sweeper keeper role. McCarthy is a reasonable all-rounder (decent shot stopper, comes off his line OK, not terrible distribution, etc) but isn't superb at anything. Forster is a very good shot stopper because he's essentially a brick wall, but he moves like a brick wall too. Gunn has the potential to be a good all-rounder, but hasn't got enough real-world experience to turn that potential into ability.

IMO we either need to play to the strengths and abilities of the players we have, or replace them. We're doing neither at the moment and we're being exposed.

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If we're going to be making a decision on our keepers this month - and as Ralph has said either Gunn or Forster will be going out on loan, we clearly are - then I'd like to see Gunn and Forster get at least one game to prove themselves.

At the moment, we have Macca playing, Fraser on the bench and Gunn at home. I know it could be horrible, but we need to give them all games, and then it will be evident who is best.

Like a scene from The Hunger Games, I know. 

Edited by the saint in winchester
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He's a solid keeper who has done alright for us. Sometimes poor, sometimes superb. Ralph is determined to play with a high line and we don't have the team for it, which has left him horribly exposed. Against Tottenham he was left to 2 world class wolves in Son and Kane. Stephens could be shot for 3 or 4 of those goals, but even then its Ralph's style of play (and refusal to change tactics) that cost us in all seriousness

If you want to lay the blame anywhere, start and stop with Reed and Co, utterly crippled the club . 

Edited by Saint86
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Not as bad as described some places on here. He did play for England not long ago to be fair. What is going on in front of him is a nightmare for any keeper. I know, I was one albeit at a very lowly level! The coaching is also questinonable. ALL keepers seem to do basic things wrong these days, e.g. parrying the ball back into the danger area instead of wide, trying to take on lively forwards with dribbles and 'Cruyf' turns, passing to a nearby defender who has already been closed down. I would have been crucified for doing these things. And please don't tell me Forster or Gunn are better. Neither has the agility or willingness to leave the goal line that McCarthy displays at times.

 

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22 hours ago, WokingSaint said:

Not as bad as described some places on here. He did play for England not long ago to be fair. What is going on in front of him is a nightmare for any keeper. I know, I was one albeit at a very lowly level! The coaching is also questinonable. ALL keepers seem to do basic things wrong these days, e.g. parrying the ball back into the danger area instead of wide, trying to take on lively forwards with dribbles and 'Cruyf' turns, passing to a nearby defender who has already been closed down. I would have been crucified for doing these things. And please don't tell me Forster or Gunn are better. Neither has the agility or willingness to leave the goal line that McCarthy displays at times.

 

Christ have some standards. When did we just start making endless excuses for poor keepers? I'm pretty sure no one is coaching him to make himself as small as possible when a striker is in on goal. 

Where did they McCarthy is a good shop stopper stuff even come from? Firstly, ALL keepers should be. But mostly, compare him to other premier league keepers and you'll see he just isn't. Very easily beatable, no presence in the goal, too often poorly positioned and looking like a terrified little lamb. Yes, he's made SOME saves and had the odd good game, but not even near the extent of keepers like David Marshall. They're pretty rubbish but come up, have a few good games because they're so busy and fans watching highlights assume they must be good keepers. As for playing for England - Pickford is no1 and he's crap. Butland played for them and his career collapsed, Hart was still getting games not so long ago. Haven't all 3 of our keepers been involved in England squads at some point?

Forster has many faults but his size and ability to stretch to make saves means he's performed at a higher level than McCarthy ever has. Question is whether he actually found form at Celtic or not, and who knows. But right now it's who is the bigger liability. For me, McCarthy is so dire that Forster is our best option. 

We've fcked it up so badly that we probably need to play Forster for the season, McCarthy as back up, loan out Gunn and hope he develops as we'd hoped. Then move a couple on next summer and sign a replacement. 

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29 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Forster is not the short, med, or long term fix. 

Totally agree.  My heart would miss a beat whenever the ball was anywhere near him. I have nothing against him personally, probably a nice bloke, but he was absolutely hopeless by the time he was dropped. The trouble is, I was less than impressed with Gunn as well. Which leaves McCarthy. Yes he has some faults, but he is still our best option. Look at England's number 1, Pickford, last night against Fleetwood.......terrible.....he's become an accident on legs. 

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31 minutes ago, Saint Keef said:

Totally agree.  My heart would miss a beat whenever the ball was anywhere near him. I have nothing against him personally, probably a nice bloke, but he was absolutely hopeless by the time he was dropped. The trouble is, I was less than impressed with Gunn as well. Which leaves McCarthy. Yes he has some faults, but he is still our best option. Look at England's number 1, Pickford, last night against Fleetwood.......terrible.....he's become an accident on legs. 

So because Pickford is rubbish we have to accept McCarthy being rubbish?

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Ralph said prior to the CP game he was the No.1 . I cannot see him being dropped simply because of the first goal scored by Spurs. I recall many times Forster was terrible against long shots from outside the penalty area and wold never come out for a cross despite his height. McCarthy is the best we have at the moment.

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6 minutes ago, SFC Forever said:

why can't we find a young hungry keeper, good at shot stopping, and collecting corners, crosses etc? There must be a couple in championship or even league one surely.

spacer.png

He's not young, but he's certainly hungry. Wayne Shaw.

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I’m pretty sure I saw stats on save % for last year and McCarthy was something like 12th - he also faced a lot of shots, so he is (or was last year) an average prem gk. Gunn was bottom I think and I’m pretty sure last season he played properly Forster was bottom 3* Granted we are playing a different way this year that might change that - but if the new way means a gk who sweeps - I don’t think I’ve seen a gk less comfortable doing that than Fraser - then again I’ve also seen Gunn charge out of his box missing everything so not sure even he is much better.
* prepared to be MLGd on these stats but I’ve got a pretty good memory

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1 hour ago, SFC Forever said:

why can't we find a young hungry keeper, good at shot stopping, and collecting corners, crosses etc? There must be a couple in championship or even league one surely.

Young, hungry and guaranteed to improve yes? 
you’ve just described what Angus Gunn was before joining us 

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