Saints 2-2 Burnley - Match Thread

[Lighthouse]

Back to back ‘winnable’ home games. Another win would really move us away from the relegation fight and towards the comfort of mid-table obscurity. I’d probably bring the Armstrongs in for Moi and Redmond.

[S-Clarke]

I wouldn't drop either Moi or Redmond, they did their jobs today and don't deserve dropping. 

Moussa could be for the chop - maybe Tella or Armstrong taking his place.

I can't imagine there will be too many changes, but Burnley will offer a threat. They've not won yet this season and they are capable with the way they play to ruffle us up. Good test for Salisu this one, he's started the season well but Burnley is as 'shit house' a test as you'll get in England at CB.

Edited 16 October, 2021 by S-Clarke

[ErwinK1961]

5 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Back to back ‘winnable’ home games. Another win would really move us away from the relegation fight and towards the comfort of mid-table obscurity. I’d probably bring the Armstrongs in for Moi and Redmond.

Djenepo out for an Armstrong, but otherwise I would leave it the same.

[SuperSAINT]

BIG test for Salisu.  This was the kind of game Vesty used to come in for (even when he was out of favour).

[AlexLaw76]

Same team, bar Djenepo out, S.Armstrong in

[John B]

10 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Back to back ‘winnable’ home games. Another win would really move us away from the relegation fight and towards the comfort of mid-table obscurity. I’d probably bring the Armstrongs in for Moi and Redmond.

Why?

[Pamplemousse]

This is a game we should be winning. If we play like we did today, and hopefully with a bit more confidence after today's win, we should do so.

[nta786]

I think I'd like to play same team that started today, but I have one eye on the Chelsea game because I love a cup run. As we have 3 quality fullbacks, I'd contemplate the one change from today and drop Djenepo for Stuart Armstrong, and then using KWP and Djenepo as fullbacks for the Chelsea game.

It means we might be able to have a decent stab against Chelsea, starting Walcott, Tella, Adams (if fit) and Adam Armstrong in the front 4 for the midweek game.

At the same time though, we should be able to play our best players 3 times in one week, it's not like our lot do it regularly, top class players manage PL then Champions League just fine... 

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, John B said:

Why?

Because I believe it’s our strongest possible team, regardless of who played well against an awful Leeds team.

[TWar]

Broja did well against a high pressing Leeds side where we needed an out ball and also a flooded midfield and Redmond in a free role. Burnley could not be more different a prospect imo as they will sit deep, absorb pressure and try to hit us from set pieces. This calls for our best four attacking players which imo is Moi, Stu, Che, and Adam Armstrong. Djenepo and Redmond on as impact subs if we need something different. I don't think Broja is really the answer for this one as Burnley have very physical cbs who are good in the air. Playing to a target man is going to be less effective than playing through the defence with pace. Romeu and Diallo in the middle, same back 5 as today as they did well. 

Edited 16 October, 2021 by TWar

[austsaint]

4 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Back to back ‘winnable’ home games. Another win would really move us away from the relegation fight and towards the comfort of mid-table obscurity. I’d probably bring the Armstrongs in for Moi and Redmond.

Harsh on Moi and Redmond, but I'd do the same.   Redmond rarely backs up a good performance like yesterday and Elynoussi, to his credit, while proving he has improved should still be behind Armstrong S. in the pecking order.    Broja is just the man to bring Armstrong into the game with is aerial ability, strength and hold up play.

[benjii]

I thought Djenepo actually did really well yesterday. Him and Perraud created a lot of good positions in the first half and got the ball into the box from dangerous areas. Perraud has to start, IMO.

As others have said, it seems harsh to drop someone after our first win, but the opposition was rubbish and despite dominating the game we did only score one goal.

It is a bit of a selection dilemma now given our attacking options are all much of a muchness.

 

 

[WALK DMC]

5 hours ago, austsaint said:

Harsh on Moi and Redmond, but I'd do the same.   Redmond rarely backs up a good performance like yesterday and Elynoussi, to his credit, while proving he has improved should still be behind Armstrong S. in the pecking order.    Broja is just the man to bring Armstrong into the game with is aerial ability, strength and hold up play.

Redmond actually played well against Chelsea in our previous game, so there is a little form building. I'd keep him in for now. 

While Broja made an impact in the air and with his physicality yesterday, he also has a nice turn of pace, which could be another asset to utilise against Burnley. 

[JRM]

7 hours ago, TWar said:

Broja did well against a high pressing Leeds side where we needed an out ball and also a flooded midfield and Redmond in a free role. Burnley could not be more different a prospect imo as they will sit deep, absorb pressure and try to hit us from set pieces. This calls for our best four attacking players which imo is Moi, Stu, Che, and Adam Armstrong. Djenepo and Redmond on as impact subs if we need something different. I don't think Broja is really the answer for this one as Burnley have very physical cbs who are good in the air. Playing to a target man is going to be less effective than playing through the defence with pace. Romeu and Diallo in the middle, same back 5 as today as they did well. 

I agree with you from an attacking perspective we need pace to get behind Burnley, but you could argue Broja has that pace and defensively he might add some height to help defend set pieces he was also our only player against Leeds who looked capable of winning the ball in the air from a corner that we nearly scored from. We can't play him the following Tuesday at Chelsea so might as well play him Saturday. 

[Sarisbury Saint]

10 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I wouldn't drop either Moi or Redmond, they did their jobs today and don't deserve dropping. 

Moussa could be for the chop - maybe Tella or Armstrong taking his place.

I can't imagine there will be too many changes, but Burnley will offer a threat. They've not won yet this season and they are capable with the way they play to ruffle us up. Good test for Salisu this one, he's started the season well but Burnley is as 'shit house' a test as you'll get in England at CB.

This

[JRM]

Might deserve a thread of its own but worth drawing attention to the prices for this fixture, CATEGORY D, it is £15 for adults in some parts of the ground (Inc block 43 of the Northam now open to home fans). Unbelievable price for top flight football in 2021, you pay that or more at some non league. 

I received a message that my kids can get a ticket for £1 as they are junior members and it is "Family Day" , anyone know what else they are putting on for family day? 

Burnley won't bring many fans down so at least this will help boost the attendance. 

[austsaint]

1 hour ago, WALK DMC said:

Redmond actually played well against Chelsea in our previous game, so there is a little form building. I'd keep him in for now. 

While Broja made an impact in the air and with his physicality yesterday, he also has a nice turn of pace, which could be another asset to utilise against Burnley. 

Redmond did play well - so did Elynoussi, and Djenepo had his moments.   Broja was outstanding.   Someone is going to be unlucky in the front four with both Armstrongs pushing for a place, a fit again Adams and Tella and Walcott on the fringes.    Maybe Redmond will be shifted to Djenepo's spot allowing Armstrong A. to partner Broja leaving Moi and Armstrong S to vie for a wide right spot.

Then there's the problem of KWP sitting on the bench.  I thought Ralph could have replaced Livramento with twenty minutes left - Perraud did well enough; just lacks that bit of acceleration which Bertrand had at his peak.    Good to have the competition for places!

 

[The Left Back]

7 hours ago, austsaint said:

Harsh on Moi and Redmond, but I'd do the same.   Redmond rarely backs up a good performance like yesterday and Elynoussi, to his credit, while proving he has improved should still be behind Armstrong S. in the pecking order.    Broja is just the man to bring Armstrong into the game with is aerial ability, strength and hold up play.

That's not fair (or right) on Redmond.  He was one of our best players against Chelsea so yesterday was a clear case of him backing up a good performance.with another one.  I think we can safely assume he'll be playing against Burnley - it's probably the safest bet among the front 4.

[Matthew Le God]

11 hours ago, nta786 said:

 using KWP and Djenepo as fullbacks for the Chelsea game.

We have 5 first team fullbacks, why on earth would you only pick one of the 5 vs the European Champions?

[TWar]

2 hours ago, JRM said:

I agree with you from an attacking perspective we need pace to get behind Burnley, but you could argue Broja has that pace and defensively he might add some height to help defend set pieces he was also our only player against Leeds who looked capable of winning the ball in the air from a corner that we nearly scored from. We can't play him the following Tuesday at Chelsea so might as well play him Saturday. 

Good points regarding the game on Tuesday! Had forgotten about that. Also it is good to have height to defend set pieces but he seemed to mainly stay up the pitch for those ready to counter so not sure we will use him that way. Maybe we could try two up top of Arma and Broja (then Arma can stay up to counter) but I think we will miss Che's passing and vision a bit.

[nta786]

10 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

We have 5 first team fullbacks, why on earth would you only pick one of the 5 vs the European Champions?

Ideal world I wouldn't, depends on whether the players are feeling tired as full-back is quite a demanding position. Ralph and the coaches have that data.

If not tired, then play Tino/KWP or KWP/Perraud or Tino/Perraud against Chelsea. Djenepo is just one of my alternatives for left back as I wouldn't want Yan Valery to play that game, and I don't think Thierry Small is ready yet.

Shane Long is also in our squad, but again doesn't mean I want to particularly use him. 

Edited 17 October, 2021 by nta786

[markr27]

Same starting XI as yesterday if everyone is fit, but Djenepo the most at risk for S Armstrong.

[Toussaint]

4 hours ago, Sarisbury Saint said:

This

Seconded

[Toussaint]

It’s be really harsh to drop Elyonoussi after yesterday’s fantastic effort.

[Teddeer]

11 hours ago, TWar said:

Broja did well against a high pressing Leeds side where we needed an out ball and also a flooded midfield and Redmond in a free role. Burnley could not be more different a prospect imo as they will sit deep, absorb pressure and try to hit us from set pieces. This calls for our best four attacking players which imo is Moi, Stu, Che, and Adam Armstrong. Djenepo and Redmond on as impact subs if we need something different. I don't think Broja is really the answer for this one as Burnley have very physical cbs who are good in the air. Playing to a target man is going to be less effective than playing through the defence with pace. Romeu and Diallo in the middle, same back 5 as today as they did well. 

Broja is far more than just a big target man to lump the ball at and ask him to compete with physical centre backs which is exactly why he should play. Give him balls on the ground  to feet or through the channels and his pace, power and skill will turn those lumbering giants and provide the openings we'll be looking for. Plus we'll need him to help defend set pieces because Burnley will load them in the mixer and five foot nothing Armstrong and Adams who cannot head the ball are not the answer.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Am personally dreading this game to be honest. Games against Burnley are nearly always turgid affairs. They'll come down and try to bully us and make the most of any contact resulting in soft free kicks. We have to make sure we don't give away any cheap free kicks. If we get the first goal we should win comfortably, if they score first, be prepared for ten behind the ball with us huffing and puffing to try and break them down.

[RedWillie]

Need an early goal against this lot. They'll be time wasting even before kick off and Dyche will be moaning and whinging at the officials from the off.

[nta786]

14 minutes ago, adriansfc said:

We'll be unchanged no doubt. Can't see KWP putting up with it long, wouldn't be surprised if we cash in in January. 

Would like to see both Armstrongs involved even if from the bench. Burnley have been woeful whenever I've seen them this season, but this one rarely goes well for us does it. Feel like it'll be 1-0 to someone. 

Slightly odd/rash thing to say only 8 games in.

If he can't break into Southampton's team, then whose is he gonna break into?

Only candidate in the upper bracket/top 10 from us is Everton. We'd demand at least £20m too I'd say, I wonder who would pay that for a sub fullback (insert Man City joke here) 

It's good to finally have some competition for once.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

16 minutes ago, adriansfc said:

We'll be unchanged no doubt. Can't see KWP putting up with it long, wouldn't be surprised if we cash in in January. 

Would like to see both Armstrongs involved even if from the bench. Burnley have been woeful whenever I've seen them this season, but this one rarely goes well for us does it. Feel like it'll be 1-0 to someone. 

I don't think we will be able to hold onto Livra for too much longer. If he keeps on progressing at the rate he is, I can see Chelsea activating that clause sooner rather than later. 

[whelk]

5 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I don't think we will be able to hold onto Livra for too much longer. If he keeps on progressing at the rate he is, I can see Chelsea activating that clause sooner rather than later. 

The clause isn’t that they can buy him back whenever they choose 

[VectisSaint]

38 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I don't think we will be able to hold onto Livra for too much longer. If he keeps on progressing at the rate he is, I can see Chelsea activating that clause sooner rather than later. 

Can't do it for 2 seasons.

[skintsaint]

Same team to start. Same tempo. Should be too much for Burnley who don't look great.

Be nice for us to get some momentum, so many false starts. 

[alehouseboys]

1 hour ago, skintsaint said:

Same team to start. Same tempo. Should be too much for Burnley who don't look great.

Be nice for us to get some momentum, so many false starts. 

Understandably, they see things slightly different, nearly all expecting an away win up to 1-4

0-0 it is then.

https://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=57683

[Turkish]

15 hours ago, nta786 said:

Slightly odd/rash thing to say only 8 games in.

If he can't break into Southampton's team, then whose is he gonna break into?

Only candidate in the upper bracket/top 10 from us is Everton. We'd demand at least £20m too I'd say, I wonder who would pay that for a sub fullback (insert Man City joke here) 

It's good to finally have some competition for once.

Newcastle LMFBO

[JRM]

1 hour ago, alehouseboys said:

Understandably, they see things slightly different, nearly all expecting an away win up to 1-4

0-0 it is then.

https://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=57683

Certain Burnley players like Barnes and Vydra always seem to have the game of their lives against us. Wood main danger man with his height, don't know much about Cornet.  They've only scored 5 goals in 8 games so most likely result has to be a 0-0. 

[CAH61]

If we defend like we have for most of this season then I really don't think that Burnley will score and it's all about us creating and taking our chances. The Redmond corner to Broja near post is a great option and I hope that we take a leaf out of Chelsea's book and have someone awake at the far post if it happens again.
A few more aerial crosses for Broja in open play would be good to mix it up a bit as he is clearly very proficient in the air and we haven't tried that tactic yet.

Edited 18 October, 2021 by CAH61

[CAH61]

7 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Same team to start. Same tempo. Should be too much for Burnley who don't look great.

Be nice for us to get some momentum, so many false starts. 

Stuey in for Moussa would be my preferred team, agree about the tempo.

[TWar]

20 hours ago, whelk said:

The clause isn’t that they can buy him back whenever they choose 

I believe they can't buy him back before 2023, so we have atleast two seasons before they can stump up £38m to get him. That's what the athletic said if I recall correctly.

EDIT: Quoted the wrong post, sorry, was ment to be in response to the one you were responding to!

Edited 18 October, 2021 by TWar

[tajjuk]

I'm not sure Ralph or any of us really know what is our best team. But I'd expect to see a similar starting line up, not sure you can say anyone has played particularly badly last two games. Broja looks a handful for any centre-back to be honest, I'd personally like to see him in combo with Armstrong up front as I think they both have lots of pace and Broja has physical presences as well. Ralph had a lot of success at Leipzig with Werner and Poulsen, and I'd say Armstrong and Broja are of a similar style to those two. 

Plus I think Stu Armstrong is probably our best 'no.10' but I doubt he will start yet, he needs to get his fitness up. 

Edited 18 October, 2021 by tajjuk

[Saint Garrett]

I don't see that A Armstrong deserves to start. He's looked pretty awful so far since he's signed, and I would have Tella, Redmond, Adams and Broja all ahead of him at the moment.  He needs to work hard to make himself undroppable, but until then, he looks way off the pace IMO. He's also incredibly wasteful.

I would expect he'll start next week against Chelsea in the cup.

I'd go with the same side on Saturday, and hopefully we can defend against this lot, as we know it's going to be a tough physical battle, and apart from Salisu and Broja, we barely have anyone else who can head the ball.

[Totton Saint]

On 16/10/2021 at 20:38, Lighthouse said:

Back to back ‘winnable’ home games. Another win would really move us away from the relegation fight and towards the comfort of mid-table obscurity. I’d probably bring the Armstrongs in for Moi and Redmond.

thank god you are not the manager

[Toussaint]

7 hours ago, JRM said:

Certain Burnley players like Barnes and Vydra always seem to have the game of their lives against us. Wood main danger man with his height, don't know much about Cornet.  They've only scored 5 goals in 8 games so most likely result has to be a 0-0. 

I've heard he's a bit of a big head, you know the sort, likes to blow is own trumpet! 

[Verbal]

3 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I've heard he's a bit of a big head, you know the sort, likes to blow is own trumpet! 

Reported.

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, Verbal said:

Reported.

For?

[suewhistle]

Typo?

[Toussaint]

55 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

Typo?

Harsh!

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, Toussaint said:

I've heard he's a bit of a big head, you know the sort, likes to blow is own trumpet! 

 

2 hours ago, Verbal said:

Reported.

I think Sean Dyche will be able to get a tune out of Cornet.

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, CB Fry said:

 

I think Sean Dyche will be able to get a tune out of Cornet.

He’ll soon lick him into shape. What number does he wear, 99?

[Manuel]

Big investment in that player, threw hundreds and thousands at him.

[LiberalCommunist]

Need to get stuck into the Cornet, plug the Cork, & not let the Wood get going. 

We got this, if we're hungry enough. Easy win. 1-0. 

Early enough in the week to be overly optimistic.