Aston Villa 1-0 Saints - Match Thread

[Lord Duckhunter]

We needed an oven ready keeper in nets. Nope

Needed a centre half-tick (on the basis of half a  dozen games)

Needed a goal scorer-nope

 

A few promising nippers doesn’t make it a good window. 

[saintant]

20 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

My point is that we are the most negative team in the whole division. I have a subscription to fubo so I watch as many games as possible and only Saints do that ponderous sideways back and then wait for the other team to get set before passing straight to them. Sometimes I need to check that the game isn't on fast-forward because Saints play so slowly. That's down to RH.

Spot on.

[OldNick]

25 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

My point is that we are the most negative team in the whole division. I have a subscription to fubo so I watch as many games as possible and only Saints do that ponderous sideways back and then wait for the other team to get set before passing straight to them. Sometimes I need to check that the game isn't on fast-forward because Saints play so slowly. That's down to RH.

Im sorry, but this will upset quite a few on here, but JWP is the major reason for this as his first thought is safety first at all costs. If there was data on passing backwards, I suspect he would be top of most lists. I don't wish us to give the ball away but playing no risk, negative passing football means we are not going to create the chances we need to actually score. JWP is obviously a good footballer, but he seems to have a hangover of preseason and perhaps disappointed not to have gone elsewhere

[beatlesaint]

1 hour ago, OldNick said:

Redmond doesnt look so bad now, does he At least he would have run with the ball and as per last season actually made chances (on par with what JWP did last season)

Yes, yes he does. Let’s not view him through rose coloured glasses now he’s gone. In matches like last night he was always as bad as anyone.

[Mr X]

5 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Yes, yes he does. Let’s not view him through rose coloured glasses now he’s gone. In matches like last night he was always as bad as anyone.

Redmond wasn't great but think we can all agree no worse than elyonoussi who starts nearly every game 

[captainchris]

4 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

100%. When Ralph has time to think about things it all goes tits up.

The owners have invested a lot in exciting, young players. Last night we play against a team low on confidence and quite frankly, awful. But instead of giving these young players their heads and telling them to give it a go what happens ? We revert to the players who werent good enough last year and leave them on the bench. 

The only one I felt sorry for was Djenepo. He's been covering at left back, learning the job and doing better than anyone expected. So what does Prof. Smart Arse do? Plays him as right wing.......unbelievable. 

He's now got another two weeks to think about things.......Everton away win incoming ? Please God no ! Cant stand them, cant stand Lampard, but expecting Ralph to learn from his mistakes is clutching at straws.

 

Professor Smart Ass 😂

[Sheaf Saint]

17 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Redmond wasn't great but think we can all agree no worse than elyonoussi who starts nearly every game 

Redmond contributed far more in his time here than Ely ever has or ever will. If I absolutely had to choose one of them to play, I would choose Redmond every time. At least he occasionally looked decent. Ely never has. Not once.

Ralph's obsession with playing him every week is very troubling. Was it Einstein who famously said "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result"? If that were literally true then Ralph would have been sectioned by now.

[S-Clarke]

37 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Im sorry, but this will upset quite a few on here, but JWP is the major reason for this as his first thought is safety first at all costs. If there was data on passing backwards, I suspect he would be top of most lists. I don't wish us to give the ball away but playing no risk, negative passing football means we are not going to create the chances we need to actually score. JWP is obviously a good footballer, but he seems to have a hangover of preseason and perhaps disappointed not to have gone elsewhere

I don't think it's fair to single him out as our main problem, he's been poor this season for sure, but when the midfielders (attacking midfielders) in front of him are Elyounoussi, Adam Armstrong or Moussa then the most sensible thing to do is pass it back or sideways and at least keep possession. 

His safety first passing is more because of the crap in front of him as opposed to what he truly wants to do, he decides to keep the ball rather than watch Elyounoussi get pushed off of it or Moussa tripping over his left foot.

We need Edioze and Aribo to be those extra bits of quality in the final third willing to attack and commit, that will at least provide an option to pass to in front of him.

Edited 17 September, 2022 by S-Clarke

[cloggy saint]

23 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Was it Einstein who famously said "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result"? 

Fun fact and totally irrelevant to the thread, but this quote is actually from a 1983 novel by Rita Mae Brown which for some reason is always attributed to Einstein.

 

Carry on.

[Sunglasses Ron]

2 minutes ago, cloggy saint said:

Fun fact and totally irrelevant to the thread, but this quote is actually from a 1983 novel by Rita Mae Brown which for some reason is always attributed to Einstein.

 

Carry on.

It’s also the go to statement that football fans use on social media to try and sound intelligent.

Edited 17 September, 2022 by Sunglasses Ron

[East Kent Saint]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The Guardian? It was probably based on diversity rather than ability to play football then. 
 

If it was so good, why are we shite? 

Ralph 

[Hawkswood]

1 hour ago, Mr X said:

Redmond wasn't great but think we can all agree no worse than elyonoussi who starts nearly every 

Yup. Both crap and frustrating. 

[Dr Who?]

2 shots on target in 180 minutes of football 😬 

We all knew the failure to sign a striker was going to be our problem, but we have got players who can hit a shot, why are they not shooting? 

Anyway on to the Everton home game. Everton are always a team you want to play at home when you need a win, especially as the City away game come the week after. 

[saintant]

23 minutes ago, Dr Who? said:

2 shots on target in 180 minutes of football 😬 

We all knew the failure to sign a striker was going to be our problem, but we have got players who can hit a shot, why are they not shooting? 

Anyway on to the Everton home game. Everton are always a team you want to play at home when you need a win, especially as the City away game come the week after. 

Ralph is happy to keep the goals against column down at the expense of any risk-taking attacking football hence 2 shots on target in 180 minutes. It will continue in this vein until he instructs the players to cut out the sideways, backwards negative passing accompanied by long hopeful hoofs up the pitch. It is not football and will not achieve results other than defeats.

[badgerx16]

At least in all our "points lost from winning positions" games we scored goals and took the lead.

Edited 17 September, 2022 by badgerx16

[davefizzy14]

What annoyed me most last night was the fact that Che and Adam Armstrong were both taken off when we were chasing the game. Could not understand that atall. Also Stuart Armstrong should always be starting as he's one of our best players. 

Edited 17 September, 2022 by davefizzy14

[saintant]

1 minute ago, davefizzy14 said:

What annoyed me most last night was the fact that Che and Adam were both taken off when we were chasing the game. Utterly baffling. 

Was very hard to tell we were chasing the game as we continued to pass sideways and backwards as though we were trying to hang on to a lead.

[Dellman]

2 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

Yes, yes he does. Let’s not view him through rose coloured glasses now he’s gone. In matches like last night he was always as bad as anyone.

I've never seen a performance like last night. it was terrible and against a really weak team.

[washsaint]

For everyone saying "we need a striker", very true.  However we could have 4 world class strikers and we still wouldn't core.

A midfield of 3 of Djeneppo, Armstrong and Moi will create absolutely nothing (as we have seen).

I can't understand why Ballard doesn't even make the bench.  Scores for fun at all levels and cannot be any worse than Adams and Armstrong.

Ralph seems to have turned into Branfoot - look not to lose and play hoof ball.  It's all rather depressing.

Edited 17 September, 2022 by washsaint

[Micky]

5 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Our so called good transfer window was so called because it was good. We clearly didn’t ignore the need for a striker and tried from the start to get someone in but it didn’t work out. We have signed some quality players. We have cleared out a great deal of dead wood. Losing Lavia so soon had been a blow. We were very poor last night I agree, but that had nothing to do with the transfer window. Most of the team didn’t show up, for whatever reason. It didn’t helped that Villa kicked anything that moved from the start and got away with it. Villa are a poor side. We were poor last night but can and will play better.

The overriding issue from last season is that we are crap up top, we do not have anyone that can score goals.  Trying to get someone but it didn't work out, is for me, a complete failure of our transfer window.  The game is about goals, without those, you don't win games.  Last night we played probably one of the worst sides in the league and failed to have a shot on target, or make the keeper make any saves of note.  They won the game easily despite only scoring one goal.  If our transfer window was that good we would've offered a who lot more than we did last night.

[Badger]

7 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

 The situation with Maitland-Niles is baffling. Why sign him if he doesn’t know how to play the way Ralph wants? He’s 25 and coming from Arsenal can’t be that unready surely? He’s been hung out to dry with the manager’s comments. My only hope is SD have the situation in hand. They have shown ambition in the window, but the failure to get in a striker undermines their ability to deliver. Plenty to ponder. 

I suspect the AMN signing might turn out to be one we're left pondering, why ? The players rumoured desire to be in his preferred position suggested he might not gel at the club, or with Ralph at any rate. Shame as he has seems to have had something about him in his career that hasn't been fulfilled.

As for the striker, perhaps too much was channeled into the pursuit of Gakpo in terms of both time and £. (Yes, I realise he's not an out and out striker).

[Vancouver Saint]

Can't keep a clean sheet. Can't score. Not a good combo.

Add totally inept performances from just about everyone except KWP and Bazunu and you get the simply dreadful performance like that.

How Elyounoussi gets to start ahead of Stuart Armstrong I'll never understand. Then kept on the pitch forever - WTF!

Without Lavia we have no inventiveness or grit in midfield. Diallo is bang average, so is Ely. JWP had his worst game since I can remember. Even Ketchup was poor. What was it...past our bedtime late kick-off?

We didn't deserve anything but 0 goals from that game for our total lack of inventiveness or threat - but Villa deserved 0 too. How can that not be offside FFS? So you're offside if you're coming back from an offside position, unless you're scoring a goal against Southampton in which case it's okay.

[Wade Garrett]

We were embarrassingly shite.

[derry]

Gerrard was making the point that we were going more direct this season. I can see that RH's reaction was " I'll surprise him" The dumb twat was conned. His team selection of a team lacking balance and a poor midfield.

El No usey was just that. Can't run, lightweight, doesn't make passes to runners, loses the ball in dangerous positions. A liability.

Diallo again flatters to deceive. He isn't good enough in midfield. JWP reverted to type, sideways and backwards. No wonder Southgate picks him to fit into his sideways and backwards team.

The manager needs a talking to. Failing that line up an alternative.

We have some talented players. The defence isn't half bad. It might work to try KWP, ABK, Caleta-Car and Salisu as a back four. The midfield needs an anchor, Lavia if he can stay fit.  Armstrong S, Aribo, JWP, AMN 2 from 4.

Edozie has bags of pace and skill give him a go on the left. Adams with  Mara on the right. We've then got a bunch of nearlies to fill in A Armstrong, Djenepo, Perrault, Larios, Diallo, Lyanco, even Walcott and Elyanoussi. That looks a lot better balanced than against Wolves and Villa.  Get back to getting the ball up to the forwards quickly. And use the back four primarily as defenders, only occasional attackers.

Definitely no more unbalanced slow garbage.

[Katalinic]

6 hours ago, saintant said:

Spot on.

We've also this season added "hoof" into the mix

[revolution saint]

9 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Our so called good transfer window was so called because it was good. We clearly didn’t ignore the need for a striker and tried from the start to get someone in but it didn’t work out. We have signed some quality players. We have cleared out a great deal of dead wood. Losing Lavia so soon had been a blow. We were very poor last night I agree, but that had nothing to do with the transfer window. Most of the team didn’t show up, for whatever reason. It didn’t helped that Villa kicked anything that moved from the start and got away with it. Villa are a poor side. We were poor last night but can and will play better.

We needed a striker but because we tried hard, that's OK and makes it a decent window? What bollocks. 

I actually think we did alright on the business we did but there were clear and obvious priorities and first and foremost was getting a striker in.  Everyone knew it.  Ralph said it.  Semmens said it.  I applaud them trying but you can't call it a good window if the most obvious and important part of the jigsaw didn't happen.  You can claim mitigating circumstances, fine, but you can't call it good.

[Hawkswood]

24 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

We needed a striker but because we tried hard, that's OK and makes it a decent window? What bollocks. 

I actually think we did alright on the business we did but there were clear and obvious priorities and first and foremost was getting a striker in.  Everyone knew it.  Ralph said it.  Semmens said it.  I applaud them trying but you can't call it a good window if the most obvious and important part of the jigsaw didn't happen.  You can claim mitigating circumstances, fine, but you can't call it good.

I think there's no doubt as everyone can see that we needed a forward but I don't think we'd even be having this conversation if we went with a more adventurous line up. I imagine with Adams and Mara as a front pairing and being supported by Aribo, Stu and either Edozie on the right or Djenepo on the left we would be talking about a different outcome. They were there to be attacked.

[revolution saint]

3 minutes ago, Hawkswood said:

I think there's no doubt as everyone can see that we needed a forward but I don't think we'd even be having this conversation if we went with a more adventurous line up. I imagine with Adams and Mara as a front pairing and being supported by Aribo, Stu and either Edozie on the right or Djenepo on the left we would be talking about a different outcome. They were there to be attacked.

Maybe but that relies on having Diallo and JWP on their own in midfield which didn’t work. No doubt your front players would have been better but I think we have to accept a 3 man midfield until either Lavia is back or AMN has thoroughly digested the playbook, regurgitated it and can quote it back verbatim. 
 

[Hawkswood]

3 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Maybe but that relies on having Diallo and JWP on their own in midfield which didn’t work. No doubt your front players would have been better but I think we have to accept a 3 man midfield until either Lavia is back or AMN has thoroughly digested the playbook, regurgitated it and can quote it back verbatim. 
 

I've only got one post left so must use wisely. 

I knew you'd pick me up on the lack of cover centrally but I think the point I was trying to get across was that if we had picked the right players and wouldn't be so afraid to attack we wouldn't have the nightmare that was last nights performance.  Taken the players i mentioned into account, why couldnt Mara play as front man and Adams drop a little deeper. Djenepo could double up on the left and defend when needs be. We know he can do it. Stu and Aribo can also drop a little. Like other people have mentioned, if we have our best players on the pitch ( can't believe I even have to say that) then I don't think it would be so glaringly obvious that we don't have that forward that we desperately need. That's mainly the point I was trying to make but I do take your point also, we'd have to balance the middle and I can't see Ralph dropping JWP any time soon. 

[Charlie Wayman]

8 hours ago, OldNick said:

Im sorry, but this will upset quite a few on here, but JWP is the major reason for this as his first thought is safety first at all costs. If there was data on passing backwards, I suspect he would be top of most lists. I don't wish us to give the ball away but playing no risk, negative passing football means we are not going to create the chances we need to actually score. JWP is obviously a good footballer, but he seems to have a hangover of preseason and perhaps disappointed not to have gone elsewhere

He has been truly woeful this season and the loss of Romeu must be part of the problem. He seems to be two yards too slow to every situation and his dead ball skills have deserted him. A spell on the sidelines might reignite his talent but don't bet on Ralph dropping him anytime soon.

[revolution saint]

19 minutes ago, Hawkswood said:

I've only got one post left so must use wisely. 

I knew you'd pick me up on the lack of cover centrally but I think the point I was trying to get across was that if we had picked the right players and wouldn't be so afraid to attack we wouldn't have the nightmare that was last nights performance.  Taken the players i mentioned into account, why couldnt Mara play as front man and Adams drop a little deeper. Djenepo could double up on the left and defend when needs be. We know he can do it. Stu and Aribo can also drop a little. Like other people have mentioned, if we have our best players on the pitch ( can't believe I even have to say that) then I don't think it would be so glaringly obvious that we don't have that forward that we desperately need. That's mainly the point I was trying to make but I do take your point also, we'd have to balance the middle and I can't see Ralph dropping JWP any time soon. 

Great, if I ask you a question and you don't reply within 2 hours then I win?  Pretty sure that's forum rules.

I'm joking, we're not even arguing.  The idea of playing our best players seems a bit left field though - it's probably not in the playbook.  Squad game and all that.  Certainly a change in mentality would have helped last night.  I don't even think we can debate the merits (or lack of) of Adams because he had fuck all service.  

One of the main issues I had last night was our inability to actually pass the ball.  We were woeful.  

[Charlie Wayman]

50 minutes ago, Hawkswood said:

I don't think we'd be having this conversation with a more adventurous line up. I imagine with Adams and Mara as a front pairing and being supported by Aribo, Stu and either Edozie on the right or Djenepo on the left we would be talking about a different outcome. They were there to be attacked.

Doubt it. Mara and Aribo seem out of their depth and Stuey has lost the plot

[northam soul]

10 hours ago, Katalinic said:

We've also this season added "hoof" into the mix

Couldn’t believe the amount of times we launched it for Mings to get heading practice.

They we’re easily clearing any long balls we played and if Adams did manage to get hold of the ball we had no one within 20-30 yards of him.

Tyrone Mings must of been laughing his socks off “ that’s it you twats launch another one up for me to clear.

Trouble was he was winning most headers in our box as well.

I really don’t know the thoughts behind the team selection and tactics but both have to change before the next game.

 

[SoberSaint]

16 hours ago, Hawkswood said:

Yup. Both crap and frustrating. 

Redmond was frustrating because you knew he had the talent. I never get that feeling with Elynoussi.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

47 minutes ago, SoberSaint said:

Redmond was frustrating because you knew he had the talent. I never get that feeling with Elynoussi.

Even though he was average, Redmond was far more of an attacking threat than Elynoussi. 

[Donatello]

19 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't think it's fair to single him out as our main problem, he's been poor this season for sure, but when the midfielders (attacking midfielders) in front of him are Elyounoussi, Adam Armstrong or Moussa then the most sensible thing to do is pass it back or sideways and at least keep possession. 

His safety first passing is more because of the crap in front of him as opposed to what he truly wants to do, he decides to keep the ball rather than watch Elyounoussi get pushed off of it or Moussa tripping over his left foot.

We need Edioze and Aribo to be those extra bits of quality in the final third willing to attack and commit, that will at least provide an option to pass to in front of him.

Yeah, mostly agree, he's been poor (although I personally don't feel incisive passing has ever been part of his game, regardless of who's ahead of him), but he's the only one of the front 6 who played at Wolves that'd make a team pushing for a top 10 finish in that set-up.

 

-----------JWP --- Diallo---------------

---Moussa-----Ely-----A.Armstrong---

---------------Adams------------------

 

5 of those 6, in that formation, are not a top 10 or progressive/entertaining side. And there's the rub. And lord knows why any manager would persist with it. Yeah, we're not blessed enough to swap all 5 out, but...

--------------JWP --- Diallo-------------

--S.Armstrong---Aribo----A.Armstrong--

-----------------Adams------------------

...is just as solid, with more creativity/flair. And...

 

--------------JWP --- AMNiles-------------

--Aribo------S.Armstrong-----A.Armstrong--

-----------------Adams--------------------

...is even more solid, if Ralph wasn't such a stubborn fuck.

[Yozzman]

12 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

He has been truly woeful this season and the loss of Romeu must be part of the problem. He seems to be two yards too slow to every situation and his dead ball skills have deserted him. A spell on the sidelines might reignite his talent but don't bet on Ralph dropping him anytime soon.

Drop him for who?

[Kenilworthy]

9 minutes ago, Yozzman said:

Drop him for who?

Only two matches ago Saints produced an exceptional team performance to beat Chelsea. JWP was not poor then. Against Villa he was so off the pace that I wondered if he might be ill. It might make sense to give him a rest but it is hard to see who comes in, unless its Maitland_Niles. And I don't fancy a midfield of him and Diallo.

[LiberalCommunist]

Official day of mourning after that clusterfuck of a weekend. 

In other news, there's a funeral somewhere today. 

[VectisSaint]

23 hours ago, Kenilworthy said:

Only two matches ago Saints produced an exceptional team performance to beat Chelsea. JWP was not poor then. Against Villa he was so off the pace that I wondered if he might be ill. It might make sense to give him a rest but it is hard to see who comes in, unless its Maitland_Niles. And I don't fancy a midfield of him and Diallo.

JWP had Lavia and Diallo in support in the middle (at least for 60 minutes). JWP is struggling when he has to hold the midfield together and play Romeu's role.

[Charlie Wayman]

On 18/09/2022 at 11:07, Yozzman said:

Drop him for who?

That's not really the question. He should be dropped full stop. We have plenty of players to choose from, some just need to be given a chance.

It's not only his poor on-field performances that are of concern, his leadership skills in adverse conditions are almost non-existent. We may be better off with a new captain as well as a new manager.

Edited 19 September, 2022 by Charlie Wayman

[Shance]

That was possibly the worst game of football I've watched in over 10 years. Fuck me it was dreadful. Mo needs dropping so badly. He's gash. 

[suewhistle]

Is it safe to come on here yet? I've given time for the usual depressives to enjoy themselves being negative.  But I have to say they have more justification after Friday's game than for some time. Watching down the local pub I normally enjoy a few drinks watching the game but I barely managed the two. One team marginally less awful than the other and that was down to a bit of strength and experience.

At one stage there were some substitutions and I nipped out to the loo. When I came back I saw Elyounoussi was still on the pitch: surely we must have a better alternative?  I cannot see what he brings to the game and that's someone who in the past has understood what less than brilliant players can contribute. Now there's more of a coaching team I'd love to eavesdrop a conversation between them on the subject, it might be fascinating.

JWP was not at his best, but my goodness, from a brief look at this thread some of you are quick enough to jump on somebody having an off day and not having much support alongside him.