Saints Expelled from Playoffs

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

4 minutes ago, sambosa75 said:

It’s a nice thought but the players have been badly let down by the club.  Their efforts have been completely undermined by the actions of a few.  It’s a really easy “out” for any of them that wish to take it and I don’t doubt that a few of them will.

We've all been completely let down by the club but I won't be leaving.

It seems watching other teams practice was part of the pre-match preparations. I can't believe just Tonda and an analyst knew it was going on. It wouldn't surprise me if it turns out lots of clubs do it and players know it goes on. 

[Hussar Saint]

I’m done with it, this club won’t be getting any more money out of me. I may take a fleeting interest from afar, but I’m no longer wasting my hard earned cash on this corrupt and broken shit show of a sport. We’ve been utterly let down by everyone from the club to the FA and beyond.

I hope Hull City batter those whinging Boro CUNTS!!

[BotleySaint]

I do feel that if it wasn't for the media pressure and constant public attacks on the club. And if Middlesbroiugh didn't have such close ties with the EFL. Then the punishment wouldn't have been so severe. 

[Doctoroncall]

NTT20 take on Spygate 2.0

[Jack]

6 minutes ago, Guan 2.0 said:

Tonda, and his staff (and this is presuming there is no ban from the FA) must stay. Because the successful media firestorm has made us toxic, and we won't appoint anyone better. We would be reduced to the retired and the inept. 

Keep whoever is willing out of Peretz, Larin (harder, as they are loans), Scienza, THB, Bree and Jander. We have many excellent players, but I believe those would be the hardest to retain. 

If Parsons has taken the path of admitting to everything, advising Tonda and his staff to admit to everything, and overseeing a process where outgoing staff are not given NDA's, on top of not hiring a Legal team specialising in prevarication at the first whisper of anything amiss, and allowing Middlesborough comms to leak, dominate, and set the agenda, then he must step down.  

Additionally, offer one free ticket to a game next season to anyone who bought a playoff final ticket.  37000 sold, so the tickets would have to be spread over the first 3 or 4 games. 

Realistically speaking, that would be a good first day of Recovery. Onwards to the Top 8 next year! 

Absolutely can’t see it. The club will want and need to save as much face as possible and the only way to do that is clear out those involved and start again. This reputation will follows us around for a long long time. Players will rightly feel betrayed and let down, the good ones will find new clubs and we’ll be left with another rebuild. 
 

As for the fans, reckon the club will very generously offer a season ticket price freeze, or maybe only a 5% increase. 

[Harry_SFC]

The -4 is even more of a kick in the teeth. With all the upheaval the best we could hope for is top 8. Even that's being optimistic next season I think. 

[Harry_SFC]

13 minutes ago, Guan 2.0 said:

Tonda, and his staff (and this is presuming there is no ban from the FA) must stay. Because the successful media firestorm has made us toxic, and we won't appoint anyone better. We would be reduced to the retired and the inept. 

Keep whoever is willing out of Peretz, Larin (harder, as they are loans), Scienza, THB, Bree and Jander. We have many excellent players, but I believe those would be the hardest to retain. 

If Parsons has taken the path of admitting to everything, advising Tonda and his staff to admit to everything, and overseeing a process where outgoing staff are not given NDA's, on top of not hiring a Legal team specialising in prevarication at the first whisper of anything amiss, and allowing Middlesborough comms to leak, dominate, and set the agenda, then he must step down.  

Additionally, offer one free ticket to a game next season to anyone who bought a playoff final ticket.  37000 sold, so the tickets would have to be spread over the first 3 or 4 games. 

Realistically speaking, that would be a good first day of Recovery. Onwards to the Top 8 next year! 

Agree about Parsons needing to go but no way can Tonda stay. We can't restore any sort of reputation with him as manager. 

[skintsaint]

5 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

The -4 is even more of a kick in the teeth. With all the upheaval the best we could hope for is top 8. Even that's being optimistic next season I think. 

We probably were -20 this season after Stills effort...😅

[Scoobysaint]

I can’t see who stays or more realistically who wants to stay. Stephens will hang around as a club man, Bragg as he’s getting game time, and then who? Quarshie, Archer, Edozie?The players have given a lot for this campaign, especially towards the end of the season, sacrificing days off and family time. And for what? They will all be looking to get out and not sure how we could stop them after this. Yes, they’re contracted but we all know that means very little if a player wants out.
I think I’m done with it for a while. Just a bit fed up with football. I’ve not watched international games for many years now, and stopped watching MOTD or caring about the Prem once we went down. A bit sick of it all now, especially Saints. 

Edited 11 hours ago by Scoobysaint
Spelling

[Harry_SFC]

Just now, skintsaint said:

We probably were -20 this season after Stills effort...😅

That's true. But it was a remarkable turn around with what was still a very good squad. Just can't see that being the case next season. Maybe this whole thing has just depressed me.

[tdmickey3]

7 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

It doesn't.  But when it comes out that this practice is widespread how many clubs are going to be sanctioned?

The leagues would have limited numbers if they kick them out,  if true of course.

[23rdSaint]

17 minutes ago, Doctoroncall said:

NTT20 take on Spygate 2.0

Tough listen, particular as George Elek is such a sanctimonious wanker, but hard to disagree with much of it. 

[Pilchards]

Going to find it hard to make a go of it next season.

Some good teams coming down from the EPL  for starters, being called cheats and booed every game, 50% of our better players leaving plus it’s going to be hard to attract a good manager and some players.

The biggest one is the atmosphere will be flat as our supporters will only half fill  the home matches. I will even go as far as our away support will be diabolical. 

[SNSUN]

I had a pretty bad dream last night that we got expelled from the final and our appeal failed and nobody got sacked for it. Mad right? 

Anyway. Anyone else looking forward to the final? We should beat Hull I reckon. 

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

4 minutes ago, Pilchards said:

Going to find it hard to make a go of it next season.

Some good teams coming down from the EPL  for starters, being called cheats and booed every game, 50% of our better players leaving plus it’s going to be hard to attract a good manager and some players.

The biggest one is the atmosphere will be flat as our supporters will only half fill  the home matches. I will even go as far as our away support will be diabolical. 

Agreed. I am done with it and will be stepping away. I don’t think there is anything they can do to make this right and I have a life to live without all this shit getting me down

[LeBizzier69]

22 minutes ago, Scoobysaint said:

I can’t see who stays or more realistically who wants to stay. Stephens will hang around as a club man, Bragg as he’s getting game time, and then who? Quarshie, Archer, Edozie?The players have given a lot for this campaign, especially towards the end of the season, sacrificing days off and family time. And for what? They will all be looking to get out and not sure how we could stop them after this. Yes, they’re contracted but we all know that means very little if a player wants out.
I think I’m done with it for a while. Just a bit fed up with football. I’ve not watched international games for many years now, and stopped watching MOTD or caring about the Prem once we went down. A bit sick of it all now, especially Saints. 

We would have been faced with this had we not beaten Hull in the final anyway…..just need to make sure we get top dollar for those with a few years left on their contracts.

 

[Thripp87]

Alex Crook really is a prick, claiming the players will be branded cheats now. You can’t even use that word in the same sentence for them after this shit show.

Tells you all you need to know when an ex Pompey player is saying it’s ridiculous (o hara) and I see Merson has too.

[Hopper]

41 minutes ago, Guan 2.0 said:

Tonda, and his staff (and this is presuming there is no ban from the FA) must stay. Because the successful media firestorm has made us toxic, and we won't appoint anyone better. We would be reduced to the retired and the inept. 

Keep whoever is willing out of Peretz, Larin (harder, as they are loans), Scienza, THB, Bree and Jander. We have many excellent players, but I believe those would be the hardest to retain. 

If Parsons has taken the path of admitting to everything, advising Tonda and his staff to admit to everything, and overseeing a process where outgoing staff are not given NDA's, on top of not hiring a Legal team specialising in prevarication at the first whisper of anything amiss, and allowing Middlesborough comms to leak, dominate, and set the agenda, then he must step down.  

Additionally, offer one free ticket to a game next season to anyone who bought a playoff final ticket.  37000 sold, so the tickets would have to be spread over the first 3 or 4 games. 

Realistically speaking, that would be a good first day of Recovery. Onwards to the Top 8 next year! 

Don't see how Tonda stays, nor do I wan't him to. Thanks for the memories and all that but ultimately his actions directly lead to everything that's happened. The players will be absolutely furious with him.

The club need to do a full internal investigation and anyone with knowlege, be it Parsons, Spoors et al. need to go.

It's not going to be easy but we need to completely rebuild to move on.

No doubt many players will want out, if we receive good offers we should take them, recoup funds and re-invest.

To think we can move forward otherwise is completely unrealistic. 

[Zorba]

Saints are now tarnished with being cheaters. There simply isn’t anything worse in sport and no matter what, it’s a stick that will be used to beat us for years to come.

The club needs to re-energise the fan base somehow and fill the stadium next season - there will be plenty of empty seats. Restore this club’s reputation back to being the decent, honest family club that it used to be. Plenty of kids for a quid days and community based family fun days. There is so much more a football club can do for the community and ours owes us and now need to step up. This debacle has cost us much more than a place in the PL and the club needs to win the fan base back and let them know that it’s sorry. 

Some decent football would help too.

 

 

 

[The Wyvern]

46 minutes ago, Guan 2.0 said:

Tonda, and his staff (and this is presuming there is no ban from the FA) must stay. Because the successful media firestorm has made us toxic, and we won't appoint anyone better. We would be reduced to the retired and the inept. 

Keep whoever is willing out of Peretz, Larin (harder, as they are loans), Scienza, THB, Bree and Jander. We have many excellent players, but I believe those would be the hardest to retain. 

If Parsons has taken the path of admitting to everything, advising Tonda and his staff to admit to everything, and overseeing a process where outgoing staff are not given NDA's, on top of not hiring a Legal team specialising in prevarication at the first whisper of anything amiss, and allowing Middlesborough comms to leak, dominate, and set the agenda, then he must step down.  

Additionally, offer one free ticket to a game next season to anyone who bought a playoff final ticket.  37000 sold, so the tickets would have to be spread over the first 3 or 4 games. 

Realistically speaking, that would be a good first day of Recovery. Onwards to the Top 8 next year! 

Agreed, good post.  And one tiny bit of luck for us, play-offs dropping down to 8th next season, I'm confident we'll be involved in those and even gives us a chance if we have a slow start after a summer of upheavel. 

[bangkoksaint]

I thought if we didnt go up (legitimetaely) this season we'd do a Stoke and just be a mid table Championship team for yeras to come. Now? We could do a Leicester and hanging on next season is a must. Those talking of players staying are in La La land, they're mercenary and wont give a monkeys about us. 

[StrangelyBrown]

Given that observing training is allegedly a widespread practice there needs to be a holistic investigation. The club need to push hard for this.

Someone then also needs to look at statistical anomalies like the crazy number of penalties Ipswich received this year.

My belief is that cheating is rife - the money at stake is far too tempting for it only to be us that have done something wrong. The difference is we're just shit at getting away with it.

[Wade Garrett]

1 hour ago, maxi_sopez said:

If in a parallel universe we sacked Tonda and staff before Boro game and held our hands up, do you think punishment would have been as severe?

 

I feel one interesting about this entire thing is how we lost control of the narrative or never tried to own it. Boro and Gibson were giving the press everything, controlling the narrative. That is another black mark on Parsons, he has to be sacked.

We couldn’t control the narrative because we were guilty.  I think it’s unfair to lump this on Parsons.  It’s entirely on Eckert.

[egg]

9 minutes ago, Hopper said:

Don't see how Tonda stays, nor do I wan't him to. Thanks for the memories and all that but ultimately his actions directly lead to everything that's happened. The players will be absolutely furious with him.

The club need to do a full internal investigation and anyone with knowlege, be it Parsons, Spoors et al. need to go.

It's not going to be easy but we need to completely rebuild to move on.

No doubt many players will want out, if we receive good offers we should take them, recoup funds and re-invest.

To think we can move forward otherwise is completely unrealistic. 

Agreed. The owners need to build us back reputationally, and that doesn't happen by retaining the very people who caused this mess. I suspect that'll be too late for many of our existing sponsors, but we won't attract new ones of any note if we're seen as a club which doesn't properly address what's happened. 

From a footballing perspective, part of me would love Tonda to stay, but I suspect he'll have lost the dressing room anyway, but the bigger picture is that the club needs to rebuild from this and don't do that by keeping hold of the people who were responsible for breaking things. 

[Stud mark of doom]

Just one thought - do we really know Tonda instigated this practice? 
 

This slight doubt is how angry he got at the Boro manager and his comment that there was plenty he wanted to say but couldn’t. 
 

Would put a totally different spin on it if the practice was established at the club prior to his arrival and “all” he did was fail to say “we must stop doing this” when he came in as a very inexperienced manager. 
 

We may never know for sure - as saints would obviously not want to suggest the practice is long standing. 

[egg]

19 minutes ago, Thripp87 said:

Alex Crook really is a prick, claiming the players will be branded cheats now. You can’t even use that word in the same sentence for them after this shit show.

Tells you all you need to know when an ex Pompey player is saying it’s ridiculous (o hara) and I see Merson has too.

That's bang out of order. Mark Dennis did a cracking little video on his Instagram yesterday addressing that point. 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

1 minute ago, Wade Garrett said:

We couldn’t control the narrative because we were guilty.  I think it’s unfair to lump this on Parsons.  It’s entirely on Eckert.

But you had to answer it. For those who think that all the secret training for a match is done in the last 72 hours are living in cloud cuckoo land. There's so many other ways to get info on how a team will set up and frankly, if I wanted to do something secret, I wouldn't do it on a field so close to public land or at Eastleigh FC for that matter. Our media team needs to go in to overdrive. 

It's Middlesbrough that are the cheats. They've cheated their way in to this final. They cheated by their media campaign influencing the decision of an 'independent' panel. Even their manager bawling to the cameras looked fake.  

[whelk]

St Marys should be much better next season without all the soppy drips supporters who can’t cope with us being called cheats. FFS some of these posts are so embarrassing. Surprised they haven’t walked out already when Manning feigned an injury to waste time. So so unethical

Edited 10 hours ago by whelk

[John B]

8 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

Given that observing training is allegedly a widespread practice there needs to be a holistic investigation. The club need to push hard for this.

Someone then also needs to look at statistical anomalies like the crazy number of penalties Ipswich received this year.

My belief is that cheating is rife - the money at stake is far too tempting for it only to be us that have done something wrong. The difference is we're just shit at getting away with it.

You can believe anything but the only fact we have is that SFC cheated and got punished get over it if other clubs are doing it no doubt the EFL will get involved

From what I have seen filming other teams has not been particularly successful in producing winning results so why do it

[O_Lord_Marian]

I will only return when everyone involved in this sordid affair are gone from the club. They should offer massive discounts with season tickets as a way of saying sorry to the supporters who they have effectively thrown under the bus. What a time to be a Saints fan aye.

[Hopper]

7 minutes ago, Stud mark of doom said:

Just one thought - do we really know Tonda instigated this practice? 
 

This slight doubt is how angry he got at the Boro manager and his comment that there was plenty he wanted to say but couldn’t. 
 

Would put a totally different spin on it if the practice was established at the club prior to his arrival and “all” he did was fail to say “we must stop doing this” when he came in as a very inexperienced manager. 
 

We may never know for sure - as saints would obviously not want to suggest the practice is long standing. 

I think that’s why we need to do a full investigation and kick out anyone involved.

The fact it was systemic means it would have been known about if not directly sanctioned by more than just Tonda and Salt. Heads need to roll.

[Pamplemousse]

42 minutes ago, Pilchards said:

Going to find it hard to make a go of it next season.

Some good teams coming down from the EPL  for starters, being called cheats and booed every game, 50% of our better players leaving plus it’s going to be hard to attract a good manager and some players.

The biggest one is the atmosphere will be flat as our supporters will only half fill  the home matches. I will even go as far as our away support will be diabolical. 

The next competitive game is not for another 70 days or so. The footballing world will have moved on, as will we, as will most other fans. The first couple of games there might be the odd chants but it'll be largely forgotten by August.

The skates won't let us forget it but we can hit back at them with their own disgraces such as stealing from charities.

[Convict Colony]

1 hour ago, Harry_SFC said:

The -4 is even more of a kick in the teeth. With all the upheaval the best we could hope for is top 8. Even that's being optimistic next season I think. 

It think you forgot we were utter shit until Nov this season, -4 isnt too bad honestly, we will still have a good quality squad when this closes, the issue is finding the right manager and SR hasnt had a great record in that department.

[Sheaf Saint]

18 minutes ago, Stud mark of doom said:

Just one thought - do we really know Tonda instigated this practice? 
 

Yes, we do. There were WhatsApp messages presented as evidence to the tribunal.

[saintstowin]

I'm going to suggest that 200 pages is enough and we move into rebuilding mode. 

Saying this partly for my own sanity. I keep trying to stay away but can't.

Good luck everyone and so sorry it came to this. We will have a team to support next season and when we score that first goal it'll feel much better. 

 

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

29 minutes ago, Zorba said:

Saints are now tarnished with being cheaters. There simply isn’t anything worse in sport and no matter what, it’s a stick that will be used to beat us for years to come.

 

I agree, I feel like that to an extent. But then I think back to Leeds and don't remember us/or anyone particularly goading them about it for years after it happened. Until all this nonsense started a few weeks ago, I barely remembered that had even happened.

Yes, this has got a bit more media coverage ...and I know that the rules have changed since...but that doesn't change what the offence actually is.

We'll probably get a fair bit of stick next season, and Boro/Pompey fans will never let it go, but that's because they don't have much else going for them in their cess pits.

[sfc4prem]

27 minutes ago, egg said:

Agreed. The owners need to build us back reputationally, and that doesn't happen by retaining the very people who caused this mess. I suspect that'll be too late for many of our existing sponsors, but we won't attract new ones of any note if we're seen as a club which doesn't properly address what's happened. 

From a footballing perspective, part of me would love Tonda to stay, but I suspect he'll have lost the dressing room anyway, but the bigger picture is that the club needs to rebuild from this and don't do that by keeping hold of the people who were responsible for breaking things. 

Frustrating, isn't it. We don't get to have nice things.

[Farmer Saint]

38 minutes ago, Zorba said:

Saints are now tarnished with being cheaters. There simply isn’t anything worse in sport and no matter what, it’s a stick that will be used to beat us for years to come.

The club needs to re-energise the fan base somehow and fill the stadium next season - there will be plenty of empty seats. Restore this club’s reputation back to being the decent, honest family club that it used to be. Plenty of kids for a quid days and community based family fun days. There is so much more a football club can do for the community and ours owes us and now need to step up. This debacle has cost us much more than a place in the PL and the club needs to win the fan base back and let them know that it’s sorry. 

Some decent football would help too.

 

 

 

Do you remember Leeds as cheaters? Does anyone care?

[trousers]

9 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Yes, we do. There were WhatsApp messages presented as evidence to the tribunal.

Playing devil's advocate here... How do we know for certain what was presented at the tribunal, given we haven't seen the official report of who did or said what yet?

All we have so far is 2nd hand reports from the media who weren't in the room, don't we? 

In other words, shouldn't we wait for the official report before coming to conclusions?

Edited 10 hours ago by trousers

[badgerx16]

Do people publicly brand Leicester "cheats" ? West Ham ? Swindon ? Manchester City ? Leeds ? Chelsea ? etc.  ( Obviously the Skates are but that's accepted practice ).

These clubs have bounced back / ignore the noise. We need to do the same. This will quickly fade away, except perhaps on Teesside.

 

We, ( the fans ), were not part of this. WE are the club. We were here long before any of the squad or coaching staff, and will be here long after they have sll departed.

Edited 10 hours ago by badgerx16

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, trousers said:

Playing devil's advocate here... How do we know for certain what was presented at the tribunal, given we have seen the report of who did or said what yet?

All we have so far is 2nd hand reports from the media who weren't in the room, don't we? 

The mental gymnastics are in play here, much like arguing this was a lad who travelled to Boro for his own enjoyment.

Tonda is done for, he was central to cheating and we have no idea if he is any good as a manager.

His excuse of not knowing is pure filth also, he was the Assistant Manager at Barnsley for nearly 2 years - who interestingly enjoyed their best spell in years whilst here was there...wonder why.

[S-Clarke]

10 minutes ago, Stripey McStripe Shirt said:

I agree, I feel like that to an extent. But then I think back to Leeds and don't remember us/or anyone particularly goading them about it for years after it happened. Until all this nonsense started a few weeks ago, I barely remembered that had even happened.

Yes, this has got a bit more media coverage ...and I know that the rules have changed since...but that doesn't change what the offence actually is.

We'll probably get a fair bit of stick next season, and Boro/Pompey fans will never let it go, but that's because they don't have much else going for them in their cess pits.

I think we've been a much bigger victim of Boro's and Gibons media machine. 

Proportionally what we did is probably not a great deal different to that of Leeds, but when you compare the media campain during Leeds and our events, they couldn't be more different. With Leeds, you had journos laughing about it and saying it would be harsh if Bielsa got a touch line ban. With us, sack everyone, ban the manager for 2 years, expel them from everything. I think we've been stitched up and thrown to the wolves, it's our fault because we were stupid, but all of this stinks and it goes deeper than we will probably ever know.

Edited 10 hours ago by S-Clarke

[bpsaint]

1 hour ago, Guan 2.0 said:

Tonda, and his staff (and this is presuming there is no ban from the FA) must stay. Because the successful media firestorm has made us toxic, and we won't appoint anyone better. We would be reduced to the retired and the inept. 
! 

Tonda is done for, he’ll be gone today. Gross misconduct, gross negligence, gross incompetence, and bringing the club into disrepute? Not a chance he’ll be here.

The latest video from Mark Dennis who will have genuine club connections is enough proof of how people feel about Tonda now.

[Strangely Brown]

Can we send everything we have on Middlesbroughs tactics to Hull City please. 

Accidently of course 😉

[TwoPints]

9 hours ago, HedgeEnder said:

I feel exactly the same. Every goal, every win, every celebration just a complete waste of time. It’s not just the money I’ve spent but the emotional investment, leaving at stupid o’clock in the morning, getting home at 3am, the whole season just an utter waste. 

I've only managed to get to very few games this season and I feel gutted and sad, particularly after reading the Sienza message.  Quite how you season tickets holders and those that travel religiously around the country to follow the team feel I can only imagine.  My heart goes out to you. 

[Shufty Zubrik]

Whilst accepting the reality of the expulsion, I do think that within a relatively short time the EFL 72 hour rule will be removed. It is a response to a time when Bielsa saw observation as a means to gain intelligence on opponents. Today Wyscout provides all of the data that a coach could need to form an understanding of the opponent. Europe and the EPL have no apparent interest in defining ‘allowed’ observation as most leagues see it as a marginal irrelevance. We may well be the first and last to fall foul of that EPL rule. 

[sfc4prem]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

I think we've been a much bigger victim of Boro's and Gibons media machine. 

Proportionally what we did is probably not a great deal different to that of Leeds, but when you compare the media campain during Leeds and our events, they couldn't be more different. With Leeds, you had journos laughing about it and saying it would be harsh if Bielsa got a touch line ban. With us, sack everyone, ban the manager for 2 years, expel them from everything. I think we've been stitched up and thrown to the wolves, it's our fault because we were stupid, but all of this stinks and it goes deeper than we will probably ever know.

It's because humans fucking love rules. Love them. That new little rule from the EFL now makes it rule-breaking and thus cheating. British hate cheats, queue jumpers, etcetera. Nowt as strange as folk.

[trousers]

17 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

The mental gymnastics are in play here, much like arguing this was a lad who travelled to Boro for his own enjoyment.

Tonda is done for, he was central to cheating and we have no idea if he is any good as a manager.

His excuse of not knowing is pure filth also, he was the Assistant Manager at Barnsley for nearly 2 years - who interestingly enjoyed their best spell in years whilst here was there...wonder why.

Look, I agree with you... You're probably right... Congratulations, take a bow... And, yes, I am partaking in "mental gymnastics"... I'm not going to apologise for doing so.... I like hypothesising, no matter what bonkers thoughts that might generate... It's a discussion forum... I think stuff... I write it down... I have a beer (well, not at 8:26 in the morning!)... I move on... It's no big deal... Just people thinking stuff.... Maybe the most "mental gymnastics " comes from those who feel the need to criticise everything people write... It's just "thinking out loud"... I end up disagreeing with much of what I write on here too... Hey ho!

Edited 9 hours ago by trousers

[saintant]

9 hours ago, trousers said:

Good lad!

[drd]

8 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Do you remember Leeds as cheaters? Does anyone care?

To be fair, everyone has hated Leeds way before and since anyway