Jump to content

Cedric or Valery?


norwaysaint

Recommended Posts

Cedric has been one of our most criticised players this season, while Valery has been one who made an immediate good impression given his chance. Does Cedric deserve his place back to show that he too can perform under good management, or has Valery done enough to keep his place now?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For as long as Valery isn't a risk, I'd keep him in, accepting he isn't the finished article. There's no better way to learn than by playing competitive football and if he keeps improving to the standard we hope, he's our long-term RB. Cedric is better right now, but for how much longer? He's been in the squad when we've been leaking goals and he rarely contributes with assists, so what would we be missing by sticking with Valery?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've only seen Valery against Man U and Arsenal didn't disgrace himself in either game ( though I understand he was poor at Cardiff). He seems better defensively than he does going forward from what I've seen.

 

I've always thought Cedric gets forward well in attack but is usually let down be his final ball. The way we played yesterday though, if Ralph can get Cedric's crossing up to snuff, I'd play Cedric.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 right backs at last!

 

I think that's a little harsh on Pied in all honesty. In the few appearances he made for us he looked a solid if unspectacular player, and a more than adequate understudy.

 

Pied was fine as a back-up. I was referring to this season really, Bexy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Valery was very accomplished defensively yesterday but as stated above he was way off the pace versus Cardiff and was a red card waiting to happen so was rightly hauled off at half time. He is part of a winning team at the moment and whilst his forward play needs to develop with confidence the fact he seems to want to defend well means I cannot see Cedric getting his place back if Valery continues to play like yesterday, for me Cedric is woeful defensively and that's his primary role in the team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sick and tired of Soares either losing his mark in front of goal or beaten in the air on his near post. Valery is the future. Against Cardiff he was booked early and Murphy/Cardiff were playing on it knowing he really couldn't compete and block off Murphy. He's played two and a half games, Manchester Utd, Arsenal for four points and at Cardiff it was a high priced International defender who made a massive Horlicks in conceding the goal otherwise another point. Valery all day long.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The emergence of Valery will hopefully buck Cedric’s ideas up and push him into performing well again. Starting the season with no competition can’t have been good for his motivation. Stick with Valery until Cedric is fit, but then judge them from training. We also don’t want to burn Valery out so I think rotation is the way to go long term.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sadly (given Valerys effort and the exciting fact hes a academy youngster) it has to be soares. Itll happen for Valery and expect him to be gradually brought in so soares can do one. Think its hard to compare as Valery looked v competent defensively at teh weekend but cedric does with 3 CBS - he doesnt have as much far post defending to do in that set-up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Huddersfield will play at lot of long ball & crosses. Cedric is a not a great defender and awful in the air. Valery is a rough diamond, but miles better in the air than Cedric.

 

I missed Cardiff (thankfully) and heard Valery got roasted. However I have seen him vs. Leicester, Man U. & Arsenal and have been very impressed given the circumstances.

 

Valery has great potential and has everything in his locker attribute wise. With the right coaching, we could have a player here.

 

I would have Cedric on the bench (needs a kick up the ass) and play Valery. My guess is that RH will do just that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You cannot put an old head on your shoulders, yes there has been some promise in Valery's appearances so far but his HT substitution at Cardiff shows how fragile his confidence can be when things do not go as well. Yesterday he had time and space because of our set up but still he made very few runs to the bye-line and when he did their LB read him easily, so let's not get carried away just yet,

 

Maybe next season if Cedric decides to try his luck elsewhere but right now we should not forget that on his day Cedric is a top class international player and can create havoc down the right wing.

 

In fact our situation is almost ideal with the young challenger in the wings and a new enthusiastic and paternalistic manager who seems to have no favourites and possibly getting every single player to improve and give of their best.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We'll need them both over the next few weeks with the amount of games so let's just see how they fight it out.

 

Valery is a useful "out" ball and certainly better in the air than Cedric. Cedric looks quicker and his aerial weakness, defensively, would be less exposed if we carry on with a back 3/5.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Huddersfield will play at lot of long ball & crosses. Cedric is a not a great defender and awful in the air. Valery is a rough diamond, but miles better in the air than Cedric.

 

I missed Cardiff (thankfully) and heard Valery got roasted. However I have seen him vs. Leicester, Man U. & Arsenal and have been very impressed given the circumstances.

 

Valery has great potential and has everything in his locker attribute wise. With the right coaching, we could have a player here.

 

I would have Cedric on the bench (needs a kick up the ass) and play Valery. My guess is that RH will do just that.

 

This.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cedric, once he's had the 'my way or highway'brief. Valery one for the future.

 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

 

So, when does the 'future', become the present? We scream blue murder that our youth aren't good enough, but want tried and tested in the team. Before you can blink, that fresh faced 17 year old, is 21, and those sage and knowledgeable knoweverything football experts on here, want rid of them. We used to give the kids a chance once upon a time, and I'm glad, that we again have a manager, who does just that. Experience comes with games.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, when does the 'future', become the present? We scream blue murder that our youth aren't good enough, but want tried and tested in the team. Before you can blink, that fresh faced 17 year old, is 21, and those sage and knowledgeable knoweverything football experts on here, want rid of them. We used to give the kids a chance once upon a time, and I'm glad, that we again have a manager, who does just that. Experience comes with games.

 

 

If you are good enough you are old enough if any of our youth players are better than our first team player in that position most managers would pick them.

There is a tendency to among fans to overstate the ability of our youth. Valery has come in and done a job but he isn't as good as Cedric if Cedric is playing to his best level. In the end you want your best players on the pitch its not and never has been about giving youth a chance just for the sake of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you are good enough you are old enough if any of our youth players are better than our first team player in that position most managers would pick them.

There is a tendency to among fans to overstate the ability of our youth. Valery has come in and done a job but he isn't as good as Cedric if Cedric is playing to his best level. In the end you want your best players on the pitch its not and never has been about giving youth a chance just for the sake of it.

 

My point being, how can they become good enough, if you don't play them! Dennis Wise was good enough, but we never gave him a chance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My point being, how can they become good enough, if you don't play them! Dennis Wise was good enough, but we never gave him a chance.

 

 

Walcott, Bale, Shaw, Ox all good enough and people at the club knew it so they got into the team without much experience. Coaches/ manager know if they have a special youth player on their hands.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Walcott, Bale, Shaw, Ox all good enough and people at the club knew it so they got into the team without much experience. GOOD Coaches/ manager know if they have a special youth player on their hands.

 

Fixed it for you. Some managers don't have the slightest interest in youth teams and will always favour the senior pros no matter what.

 

Koeman was a prime example. My wife's nephew is in the Everton academy and he told me he wouldn't even say hello to the kids if he walked past them, that's how disinterested he was.

 

Remember 'Arry setting the kids up to fail against Mansfield in the cup that time to make a point, because he was being pressured from above to play them?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hard one really, but at last Cedric has a challenge from a lad who looks perfectly capable. Under Ralph and his analytical football if he is willing to learn Valery could thrive very quickly, if Cedric responds to the new mans techniques we could be very spoilt for choice. It could then come down to pace and the opposition.

I would give Valery another spin v Huddersfield, rest him v WH if Cedric is fully fit, then bring him back for City.

I thought him, Bednarek and Redmond made a tidy right sided trio on Sunday...........................but once again how pleasing it is to have viable competition in that position.

You never know Ralph might give them both a go Cedric left Valery right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't play either against Huddersfield. If Lemina is fit I'd play another man in midfield and a back 4. Stephens additional height and strength at RB would be our best defensive option imo. If he does play a 3 I'd prefer Cedric - he's a good player and will improve now we have a proper coach/manager, and some competition for his place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As every knows we are - despite that win - in a relegation fight. So it is undisputable that we have to put out the best Team available. Valery is far from being ready, as we saw especially vs. Cardiff. He wasn't bad vs. Arsenal, but he wasn't good neither. Cedric is often wrongly accused of leaking Goals when losing headers, he normally shouldn't even have to challenge for, had he an able CD playing next to him. He won the EC with Portugal, he is a proven international and he finally scored a great Goal vs. Man.U. for a Point. You can't imagine Valery doing Things of such importance right now.

So there shouldn't be any discussion of whom to Play if both are fit...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cedric at his best plays every time. We don't yet know what effect Hasenhuttl might have on him - if he bucks his ideas up a bit, he's one of the better right backs in the league.

 

Valery has shown some promise, though, and can provide competition, back up and get some minutes under his belt once/if our situation becomes less critical. He's been solid, in the main, in a back five. Playing in a four against Cardiff, though, his naivety was exposed. Murphy had the beating of him in their first foot race and he was really spooked from that moment on - almost like he didn't think there was any other way to deal with the winger other than race him. When the much slower Stephens came on at half time, he snuffed out Murphy's threat fairly comfortably.

 

I think Valery looks pretty good for the long term. Athletic, quite aggressive in the tackle, generally (one game aside) a cool head. Doesn't seem to have a change of gears, however. A bit like Glen Johnson - everything he does is at the exact same pace, a leisurely trot. That might prove to be a problem, but hopefully it's a legacy of our terrible coaching and with a manager that's going to push players to their physical limit, Valery might find a bit more intensity and running power over time.

 

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...if he bucks his ideas up a bit, he's one of the better right backs in the league...

 

Out of interest...based on what?

 

Off the top of my head, here's a list of RB's I'd say are better than him.

 

Azpilicueta

Walker

Trippier

Valencia

Moses

Zabaleta

Bellerin

Aurier

Clyne

Alexander-Arnold

Leichtsteiner

Coleman

Periera

Zappacosta

Danilo

Young

 

 

Possibly:

 

Janmaat

Montoya

Femenia

Smith

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did anyone actually see Cedric during the game at SMS. I ask that because I've got a feeling he wasn't bothered enough to be there. How do I know this, I don't but I suspect ? As I was arriving at SMS at 1245 he rushed across the road in front of my wife's car and jumped into a car which drove off towards the docks. If he hadn't bothered to be at the game I doubt he'll get much change from Ralph.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As every knows we are - despite that win - in a relegation fight. So it is undisputable that we have to put out the best Team available. Valery is far from being ready, as we saw especially vs. Cardiff. He wasn't bad vs. Arsenal, but he wasn't good neither. Cedric is often wrongly accused of leaking Goals when losing headers, he normally shouldn't even have to challenge for, had he an able CD playing next to him. He won the EC with Portugal, he is a proven international and he finally scored a great Goal vs. Man.U. for a Point. You can't imagine Valery doing Things of such importance right now.

So there shouldn't be any discussion of whom to Play if both are fit...

 

For a start it doesn't matter what Cedric wants to do because opponents have his card marked and players who are decent in the air are tasked to slip the centre back and pull off onto Cedric who is too small to cope. It's planned not accidental. As for international experience, the ball is mostly on the ground and rarely has to defend in the air.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

a 6'-2" Cedric would do nicely.

 

I too am sick of seeing Cedric beaten on the far post. (it's not due to the lack of effort, it's just his height limits his ability to defend in certain situations).

 

Yes, Cedric is likely better going forward, but the priority right now is too stop leaking goals.

 

After Varley picked up that yellow against Cardiff, it was right to pull him. His lack of experience put him in jeopardy of a second yellow.

 

Start Valery, keep Cedric warmed on the bench.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...