New Manager Debate

[East Kent Saint]

I'm feeling that any appointment will be underwhelming until we can defend and start scoring plus winning. All those visits to St Mary's where a draw was a relief need to be history. 

[Hopper]

4 minutes ago, Chez said:

We've been playing it out from the back all season. Maybe not successfully, but short passing across the back four and down the line has been there the whole time. Was the difference that we got it into the central midfielders and between the lines more?

TE got what, Monday and Tuesday and Thursday and Friday to train the players. I'd imagine Thursday training was pretty light, after a game the night before, so the idea that he was able to change the way we play in that short period is unlikely.

Individual and collective performances are often about confidence and belief. The manager can be positive and give pep talks, but confidence comes from players playing well and teams winning games.

There was a definite pattern to the play from goal kicks for example that wasn't there with Still. Often Macca would just go long. Baz and co played it short and out to the right a lot against Wednesday with THB finding quite a bit more success on his favoured side. I'm not saying he's made sweeping changes (no pun intended) but there was definitely a more deliberate action there.

[JustinR]

Right place, right time springs to mind.

As Brentford have shown, promoting from within is the right call when the model is established. You don't want an outsider to come in and upset the model/ culture that is working so well. 

That is absolutely not where Saints are right now. As the debacle with Still showed, you need a big personality, gravitas and credibilty to make big changes. Or the players will simply ignore you- as we now hear happened with Still.

This feels very similar to what we needed when Koeman came in. Les Reed (for all his faults) said that they decided they needed a big name first and foremost and then used the data to pick the best manager available. There were other, more successful (in terms of data) managers available but he was what we needed AT THAT POINT. So the black box identified who was best within the parameters set. Not just.. whos won the most games/ got the best xG in Europe.

Now is the time for the same approach IMO. We have the resources and talent. We don't need a high risk choice to get some marginal extra gains. Basic competance with instant respect right now is the way to go. Viera or Rogers are the only ones in that category. 

[Turkish]

A lot of people seem to be asking for an experienced manager. Interesting that no one has come up to launch a passionate defence of inexperience, how this isnt important, experience is overrated etc etc. Like they did when we appointed Will Still. 

[DT]

Just now, JustinR said:

Right place, right time springs to mind.

As Brentford have shown, promoting from within is the right call when the model is established. You don't want an outsider to come in and upset the model/ culture that is working so well. 

That is absolutely not where Saints are right now. As the debacle with Still showed, you need a big personality, gravitas and credibilty to make big changes. Or the players will simply ignore you- as we now hear happened with Still.

This feels very similar to what we needed when Koeman came in. Les Reed (for all his faults) said that they decided they needed a big name first and foremost and then used the data to pick the best manager available. There were other, more successful (in terms of data) managers available but he was what we needed AT THAT POINT. So the black box identified who was best within the parameters set. Not just.. whos won the most games/ got the best xG in Europe.

Now is the time for the same approach IMO. We have the resources and talent. We don't need a high risk choice to get some marginal extra gains. Basic competance with instant respect right now is the way to go. Viera or Rogers are the only ones in that category. 

Absolutely right. Good post.

[Willo of Whiteley]

53 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Whoever the new manager is, can the Northam please stop encouraging them to do the embarrassing fist pump celebration after every single win. 

Having sat in the Northam on Saturday there were a few fuckwits around chanting Tommy Robinson’s name.

Unfortunately, you can’t do anything about stupid people.

The fist pumping doesn’t bother me, but doing it as an interim manager or the players celebrating like they’ve won the World Cup is a little cringy given where they should be and their performance this season.

[West end Saints]

41 minutes ago, Turkish said:

A lot of people seem to be asking for an experienced manager. Interesting that no one has come up to launch a passionate defence of inexperience, how this isnt important, experience is overrated etc etc. Like they did when we appointed Will Still. 

I don't have a strong view on needing championship experience, more someone who has shown he can manage players of this level , in a club with our level of profile (which seemed a shock for Jones) 

I maybe more open minded than some to managers I know less about (like Still) as I live in hope that they are going to be like Pochitino, whereas someone like Carrick may turn out to be a safe bet, but I don't  really have that excitement (blind pathetic hope)  that maybe they will be great.

So many managers perform so differently at new clubs it is hard. 

Was any happy when we recruited a manager just sacked from the division below us? (WGS)

[Fabrice29]

58 minutes ago, Turkish said:

A lot of people seem to be asking for an experienced manager. Interesting that no one has come up to launch a passionate defence of inexperience, how this isnt important, experience is overrated etc etc. Like they did when we appointed Will Still. 

I would but like you said we put forward that not long ago. The principles of the argument haven’t changed though. Experience doesn’t get you results. Otherwise Sheffield United would be out of the bottom 3 by now. 

[lambtiss]

4 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I would but like you said we put forward that not long ago. The principles of the argument haven’t changed though. Experience doesn’t get you results. Otherwise Sheffield United would be out of the bottom 3 by now. 

You can't discount experience by one example. I could counter it with David Moyes at Everton. 

Most people would accept that a manager with a previous good track record at the appropriate level is likely to be a better bet than an inexperienced manager.

[wild-saint]

1 hour ago, Hopper said:

There was a definite pattern to the play from goal kicks for example that wasn't there with Still. Often Macca would just go long. Baz and co played it short and out to the right a lot against Wednesday with THB finding quite a bit more success on his favoured side. I'm not saying he's made sweeping changes (no pun intended) but there was definitely a more deliberate action there.

Small changes seemed to improve things. moving THB to the right certainly allowed him to use his decent range of passing and he seemed to move higher up the pitch adding numbers into midfield. Id be interested to see his heat map to confirm that. id go as far as saying the last 2 games we are seeing the THB of old that got 2 sides promoted. 

I wonder with a little more time what other changes TE will make to improve things? 

Im happy to see how it plays out by giving him more time as interim rather than jump into a replacement out of panic. 

The question will be is what do they do if he was to continue the improvement and win the next 2 games.

[Sarnia Cherie]

4 hours ago, benjii said:

Neestrup Mother Brown

Neestrup Mother Brown

Up the table you must go

Ee-aye, Ee-aye, Ee-aye-oh

Shouldn't the third line be 'Bottom of the table you must go'

[Fabrice29]

6 minutes ago, lambtiss said:

You can't discount experience by one example. I could counter it with David Moyes at Everton. 

Most people would accept that a manager with a previous good track record at the appropriate level is likely to be a better bet than an inexperienced manager.

There are plenty of examples either way, the trick is to get a manager capable of getting results out of your squad. Experience isn’t really relevant but it sure as hell makes people feel better about things in the short term. 

[LeBizzier69]

1 hour ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Having sat in the Northam on Saturday there were a few fuckwits around chanting Tommy Robinson’s name.

Unfortunately, you can’t do anything about stupid people.

The fist pumping doesn’t bother me, but doing it as an interim manager or the players celebrating like they’ve won the World Cup is a little cringy given where they should be and their performance this season.

Is Super Tommy Robinson signing soon?

[Willo of Whiteley]

4 minutes ago, LeBizzier69 said:

Is Super Tommy Robinson signing soon?

Well he’s already got a collection of idiots that follow him 🤷🏻‍♂️

[notnowcato]

Whoever the new guy is, good fucking luck to you as you’re going to need it in spades. There are so many fucking issues with the club currently, a new manager is the issue that is on fire at the moment but solving that doesn’t fix all the other shit. 

[Willo of Whiteley]

Best Charlton and I think Tonda Exkhart will be confirmed, but if he then loses the next four games Sport Republic look more idiotic than they currently do.

[Appy]

2 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Best Charlton and I think Tonda Exkhart will be confirmed, but if he then loses the next four games Sport Republic look more idiotic than they currently do.

Think a decision has to be made either way during these two weeks, if he loses to Charlton and we want someone in after that, we’re then stuck in a run of 11 games up until the new year, we’d be scrambling around, just get someone in now and behave like a proper football club for once. 

[Dearky]

Read a few articles suggesting Rodgers might go the Middle East as his next move. Big money to be made there...

[saint michael]

I think what we have seen is not necessarily a mgr bounce but a team that shows up when it’s convenient to them. Strange how a little more effort improves the chances of scoring…like being in the box when a cross is coming in. 
 

im not sure what mgr will stop the trend of lunatics running the asylum. 

[LuckyNumber7]

2 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Whoever the new manager is, can the Northam please stop encouraging them to do the embarrassing fist pump celebration after every single win. 

No, stop being a miserable git.

Unless it's GON, then we'll just give him the wanker sign.

[DellBoys]

The silence is deafening. I really hoped we’d at least get an update by now. 

[gecko]

7 minutes ago, Dearky said:

Read a few articles suggesting Rodgers might go the Middle East as his next move. Big money to be made there...

I'm genuinely astounded that he's even being talked about as a potential replacement. I couldn't stand him when he was at Liverpool - took credit for everything that went well; always excuses for everything else.

Would have him here in a heartbeat though - no way would he be allowing a player led revolt to undermine him to the rest of the leadership (supposedly)

I just can't see it happening. Very happy to be proven wrong, but I don't believe that

a) our owners are that clever

b) he would stoop this low

[tdmickey3]

15 minutes ago, Appy said:

Think a decision has to be made either way during these two weeks, if he loses to Charlton and we want someone in after that, we’re then stuck in a run of 11 games up until the new year, we’d be scrambling around, just get someone in now and behave like a proper football club for once. 

Yes its about time they stopped all this clever spreadsheet nonsense, we tried it and its never worked.

A sensible, experienced, organised and proactive manager is required 

[Midfield_General]

3 hours ago, Channons Windmill said:

GON lives very close to Penge….

And he can fucking stay there

[Midfield_General]

2 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Whoever the new manager is, can the Northam please stop encouraging them to do the embarrassing fist pump celebration after every single win. 

I suspect SR will sort that at the source for you by simply appointing someone who never wins 

[LiberalCommunist]

22 minutes ago, Dearky said:

Read a few articles suggesting Rodgers might go the Middle East as his next move. Big money to be made there...

I think that's just under Labours one in one out scheme to be fair. 

Edited 6 hours ago by LiberalCommunist

[benjii]

42 minutes ago, LeBizzier69 said:

Is Super Tommy Robinson signing soon?

Promising right-winger.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

30 minutes ago, Appy said:

Think a decision has to be made either way during these two weeks, if he loses to Charlton and we want someone in after that, we’re then stuck in a run of 11 games up until the new year, we’d be scrambling around, just get someone in now and behave like a proper football club for once. 

I fully expect both Middlesborough and Norwich to have appointed managers before we do.

[LeBizzier69]

3 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I fully expect both Middlesborough and Norwich to have appointed managers before we do.

So long as they're GON and RM then that's just fine.

[DT]

17 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I fully expect both Middlesborough and Norwich to have appointed managers before we do.

You can probably add Leeds to that list after they fire Farke. Will be a merry go round. We'll wait until all the plates stop spinning and resort to the shittest pick

[madge]

2 hours ago, East Kent Saint said:

I'm feeling that any appointment will be underwhelming until we can defend and start scoring plus winning. All those visits to St Mary's where a draw was a relief need to be history. 

The performances against QPR and Wednesday were both pretty underwhelming. Better sides beat us. Didn’t really see anything tactically different. We need a complete change of mindset and need an external candidate with fresh ideas to achieve this. Players will be comfortable under Tonda.. and players being too comfortable is why we’re in this mess.

[Dr Who?]

Money been lumped on Brendan

Edited 6 hours ago by Dr Who?

[Willo of Whiteley]

I’d have taken Daniel Farke in the summer. Good manager, 4-3-3, pressing teams and good record in the EFL.

[kwsaint]

10 minutes ago, Dr Who? said:

Money been lumped on Brendan

I feel like for something like this no one has a clue so odds aren’t necessarily the best indicator. That being said, there is no other indicator beyond someone claiming they’re ITK on the forum.

[RedArmy]

38 minutes ago, benjii said:

Promising right-winger.

Maybe Will Still would have played 4-2-3-1 if we signed him. 

[Rebel]

I am starting to think we should go for Marco Rose if we can convince him to come to Saints  - and keep Tonda with the first team as a coach.

Surely Russell Martins self-belief, fan club and connections will talk him in to the job at Norwich.  It will be funny to watch them both get relegated if they do go that option. 

And I can see Rogers ending up at Leeds if they sack Farke - the delusions on both sides would fit well there what with all the 'big I am' b*ll*cks they both spout and their mutual arrogance.

Gary O'Neil to Boro makes sense as well.

Leaving us with Michael Carrick or some German coach - so why not Marco Rose. 

But it will probably be that Neestrup bloke from Copenhagen.  Although being successful in Denmark with Copenhagen is kind of like being successful with Rangers or Celtic in Scotland - its expected really.

[St Louis]

1 hour ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Best Charlton and I think Tonda Exkhart will be confirmed.

George, Bobby and yourself?

[Wade Garrett]

10 minutes ago, Rebel said:

I am starting to think we should go for Marco Rose if we can convince him to come to Saints  - and keep Tonda with the first team as a coach.

Surely Russell Martins self-belief, fan club and connections will talk him in to the job at Norwich.  It will be funny to watch them both get relegated if they do go that option. 

And I can see Rogers ending up at Leeds if they sack Farke - the delusions on both sides would fit well there what with all the 'big I am' b*ll*cks they both spout and their mutual arrogance.

Gary O'Neil to Boro makes sense as well.

Leaving us with Michael Carrick or some German coach - so why not Marco Rose. 

But it will probably be that Neestrup bloke from Copenhagen.  Although being successful in Denmark with Copenhagen is kind of like being successful with Rangers or Celtic in Scotland - its expected really.

Would rather we try and prise Steve Cooper from Brondby.  

Edited 5 hours ago by Wade Garrett

[SW11_Saint]

52 minutes ago, benjii said:

Promising right-winger.

“Promising” isn’t the adjective I’d use! 

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, LeBizzier69 said:

Is Super Tommy Robinson signing soon?

We need a strong signing in the middle, not out on the far right.

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, sadoldgit said:

We need a strong signing in the middle, not out on the far right.

Ed Davey ?

[Theolonius Monkou]

🌹

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Theolonius Monkou said:

🌹

A/S/L

[MarkSFC]

1 minute ago, Theolonius Monkou said:

🌹

Marco?

[lumuah]

37 minutes ago, Rebel said:

But it will probably be that Neestrup bloke from Copenhagen.  Although being successful in Denmark with Copenhagen is kind of like being successful with Rangers or Celtic in Scotland - its expected really.

Unless your name is Russell...

[skintsaint]

6 minutes ago, Theolonius Monkou said:

🌹

Danny?

[sotonjoe]

3 hours ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Having sat in the Northam on Saturday there were a few fuckwits around chanting Tommy Robinson’s name.

Unfortunately, you can’t do anything about stupid people.

The fist pumping doesn’t bother me, but doing it as an interim manager or the players celebrating like they’ve won the World Cup is a little cringy given where they should be and their performance this season.

I don't think he has enough Championship experience to be fair

[beatlesaint]

Why are people thinking Leeds are going to sack Firke? They aren’t in the bottom 3 and are on 11 points !

I would have given my right arm for us to be on 11 points this time last season !

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, beatlesaint said:

Why are people thinking Leeds are going to sack Firke? They aren’t in the bottom 3 and are on 11 points !

I would have given my right arm for us to be on 11 points this time last season !

I think he's on borrowed time. They debated sacking him in the summer, but stuck with him and let him build into the PL.

Their fans have had enough now though. But as you said, they're still light a days above what we were last year! 

I do think they will get rid by Dec though.

[Chez]

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I think he's on borrowed time. They debated sacking him in the summer, but stuck with him and let him build into the PL.

Their fans have had enough now though. But as you said, they're still light a days above what we were last year! 

I do think they will get rid by Dec though.

I have to say, I was surprised they got promoted having lost a lot of their best players in the summer. Farke has to take a lot of credit for picking them back up and beating pretty much everyone on their way to 100 points. Not sure how much input he had on transfers, but Tanaka, Solomon and Rodon were astute signings. He got a few more goals out of Piroe and more from Gnonto.

Not sure who was `debating' his sacking, but it feels a little far fetched. I know there will have been doubts about his ability to keep them up, but you can't really sack a guy that has got you promoted until he starts to struggle can you? Is that now though perhaps? Seems a little premature.