Summer Transfer Window 2021

[Useful Idiot]

2 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

I agree with Lighthouse, of course.

I still have no idea that you need to pretend there was a "genius move" around Hoedt when that wasn't even a concept at the time, no one breathing air believed he was signed to make Virgil stay.

You're using it as proof of a failed idea (including posting up that link) but it wasn't an idea and no one at all thought it was.

There was a quote by either Reed or Kruger at the time suggesting that Hoedt and Virgil would be able to strengthen their partnership at both domestic and international level. I can't find it, but it definitely existed. It might be behind a paywall that I no longer subscribe to.

We were scrabbling around at any chance to make it look like we weren't trying to sell Van Dijk at that time, due to the fan reaction to selling him to Liverpool. It was clearly stated on more than one occasion that we didn't want to sell Van Dijk that year and we were looking to change strategy. This was even after he handed in a transfer request and the club was sold to Gao.

https://talksport.com/football/270469/southampton-chairman-ralph-krueger-insists-virgil-van-dijk-will-not-be-sold-summer-club/

I don't think it was the only reason that we signed Hoedt (partly it was because he was left footed and had decent form for Lazio, a league where we'd just signed Lemina from, who was probably another factor in signing him), but I think they were trying to use anything they could to keep Van Dijk a bit happier for the year and either convince him to either stay for another season or two and drive up his price.

[Turkish]

21 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said:

There was a quote by either Reed or Kruger at the time suggesting that Hoedt and Virgil would be able to strengthen their partnership at both domestic and international level. I can't find it, but it definitely existed. It might be behind a paywall that I no longer subscribe to.

We were scrabbling around at any chance to make it look like we weren't trying to sell Van Dijk at that time, due to the fan reaction to selling him to Liverpool. It was clearly stated on more than one occasion that we didn't want to sell Van Dijk that year and we were looking to change strategy. This was even after he handed in a transfer request and the club was sold to Gao.

https://talksport.com/football/270469/southampton-chairman-ralph-krueger-insists-virgil-van-dijk-will-not-be-sold-summer-club/

I don't think it was the only reason that we signed Hoedt (partly it was because he was left footed and had decent form for Lazio, a league where we'd just signed Lemina from, who was probably another factor in signing him), but I think they were trying to use anything they could to keep Van Dijk a bit happier for the year and either convince him to either stay for another season or two and drive up his price.

This is the quote you are talking about and in no way does it suggest he was being signed because he was Van Dijks Dutch friend. https://www.southamptonfc.com/news/2017-08-22/wesley-hoedt-signs-for-southampton#:~:text=Southampton Football Club is delighted to announce the,of the top young talents on the continent.

“Wesley has proven his talent through his performances for Lazio, as well as the Netherlands, and we believe he can develop even further here at Southampton, alongside his international teammate Virgil van Dijk, as well as the likes of Jack Stephens, Maya Yoshida, Jan Bednarek and Florin Gardos.“

you’re talking bollocks.

[austsaint]

22 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said:

There was a quote by either Reed or Kruger at the time suggesting that Hoedt and Virgil would be able to strengthen their partnership at both domestic and international level. I can't find it, but it definitely existed. It might be behind a paywall that I no longer subscribe to.

We were scrabbling around at any chance to make it look like we weren't trying to sell Van Dijk at that time, due to the fan reaction to selling him to Liverpool. It was clearly stated on more than one occasion that we didn't want to sell Van Dijk that year and we were looking to change strategy. This was even after he handed in a transfer request and the club was sold to Gao.

https://talksport.com/football/270469/southampton-chairman-ralph-krueger-insists-virgil-van-dijk-will-not-be-sold-summer-club/

I don't think it was the only reason that we signed Hoedt (partly it was because he was left footed and had decent form for Lazio, a league where we'd just signed Lemina from, who was probably another factor in signing him), but I think they were trying to use anything they could to keep Van Dijk a bit happier for the year and either convince him to either stay for another season or two and drive up his price.

You've gone to a lot of trouble with that analysis and quote but a more likely hypothesis is that Les saw Hoedt as Virgil's replacement.    A more egocentric, one footed, not very good player you'd be hard pressed to recruit.   The genius of Les.

[saintwbu]

When I opened this thread I was really hoping to find a deep analysis of whether Wesley Hoedt was signed to keep Virgil Van Dijk happy. Thankfully my prayers were answered.

[CB Fry]

43 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said:

There was a quote by either Reed or Kruger at the time suggesting that Hoedt and Virgil would be able to strengthen their partnership at both domestic and international level. I can't find it, but it definitely existed. It might be behind a paywall that I no longer subscribe to.

We were scrabbling around at any chance to make it look like we weren't trying to sell Van Dijk at that time, due to the fan reaction to selling him to Liverpool. It was clearly stated on more than one occasion that we didn't want to sell Van Dijk that year and we were looking to change strategy. This was even after he handed in a transfer request and the club was sold to Gao.

https://talksport.com/football/270469/southampton-chairman-ralph-krueger-insists-virgil-van-dijk-will-not-be-sold-summer-club/

I don't think it was the only reason that we signed Hoedt (partly it was because he was left footed and had decent form for Lazio, a league where we'd just signed Lemina from, who was probably another factor in signing him), but I think they were trying to use anything they could to keep Van Dijk a bit happier for the year and either convince him to either stay for another season or two and drive up his price.

Or, just accept that you're wrong about this one.

[Useful Idiot]

4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

This is the quote you are talking about and in no way does it suggest he was being signed because he was Van Dijks Dutch friend. https://www.southamptonfc.com/news/2017-08-22/wesley-hoedt-signs-for-southampton#:~:text=Southampton Football Club is delighted to announce the,of the top young talents on the continent.

“Wesley has proven his talent through his performances for Lazio, as well as the Netherlands, and we believe he can develop even further here at Southampton, alongside his international teammate Virgil van Dijk, as well as the likes of Jack Stephens, Maya Yoshida, Jan Bednarek and Florin Gardos.“

you’re talking bollocks.

If you are suggesting that part of the reason for signing Hoedt wasn't to try to improve the club's relationship with Van Dijk (who was training alone https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40682751 for a chunk of preseason) and that his presence in the Netherlands national team was no factor in signing Hoedt, then I think you're wrong.

The board went after Liverpool for tapping Van Dijk up and every statement was about us changing our strategy on selling players. All the evidence suggests that we were doing everything we could to hold onto Van Dijk for the season and thought that Hoedt was a better defender than we had, and his nationality would help Van Dijk form a partnership with him more quickly. This is even after the sale to Gao went through.

When the transfer committee signed off on him, they would have looked at Hoedt's ability first, but we were also trying to get Van Dijk to settle down so we could make a show of standing up to Liverpool. If Van Dijk had totally downed tools he could have lost value when we did have to inevitably sell him, so we were trying our absolute best to keep him happy and clutching at straws.

Do I think that's the only reason we signed Hoedt? No. Do I think it swung the transfer committee's decision making into choosing him from a number of other candidates? Yes.

 

[nta786]

A Spurs friend who claims to have insider knowledge says we have enquired for Harry Winks.

That's all I have to say but I hope not - we need an actual enforcer type CDM in the mould of Romeu, or a Matic/Fellaini/Wanyama (someone who can break up play)

 

[CB Fry]

45 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said:

If you are suggesting that part of the reason for signing Hoedt wasn't to try to improve the club's relationship with Van Dijk (who was training alone https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40682751 for a chunk of preseason) and that his presence in the Netherlands national team was no factor in signing Hoedt, then I think you're wrong.

The board went after Liverpool for tapping Van Dijk up and every statement was about us changing our strategy on selling players. All the evidence suggests that we were doing everything we could to hold onto Van Dijk for the season and thought that Hoedt was a better defender than we had, and his nationality would help Van Dijk form a partnership with him more quickly. This is even after the sale to Gao went through.

When the transfer committee signed off on him, they would have looked at Hoedt's ability first, but we were also trying to get Van Dijk to settle down so we could make a show of standing up to Liverpool. If Van Dijk had totally downed tools he could have lost value when we did have to inevitably sell him, so we were trying our absolute best to keep him happy and clutching at straws.

Do I think that's the only reason we signed Hoedt? No. Do I think it swung the transfer committee's decision making into choosing him from a number of other candidates? Yes.

 

This is just garbage.

I would suggest it was the far more the case that Van Dijk was used to get Hoedt to sign for us, as clearly that would be an attractive proposition for him.

I am pretty sure that is something Hoedt said at the time.

Basically the complete opposite of your idea. 

 

[CB Fry]

...

Edited 22 May, 2021 by CB Fry
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[tajjuk]

Hoedt was what like 23, left footed, around the dutch national team, good on the ball and doing decently but was not a regular for bigger club than us who I think at the time were playing Champions League football, and was available in the £10-15 million bracket. 

He pretty much fitted the profile of signing we wanted, where he would have hopefully improved and developed into a player with a much better value, whilst he got to play more regular football and probably earn more money due to the richness of the PL.

On paper it looked a very good signing but it just didn't work out. Not sure it had a lot do with Van Dijk, though I am sure he was probably mentioned to Hoedt along the way. 

[Disco Stu]

https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/football-news/thomas-delaney-transfer-southampton-update-5441663

"It is not our most urgent position to strengthen..."

"Stuart [Armstrong] played as a number six in the last few games, so now we have four number sixes, if you want."

Saints will instead look to offer an alternative in the number six position by signing a flexible full-back who is comfortable stepping into the midfield...

"They can then play as a six at times," he went on to explain. "But that position is not the position where we are definitely looking to sign somebody.

"We are looking at full-backs, wingers and other players," he said. "We are sure that there are some coming in the summer."

Edited 22 May, 2021 by Disco Stu

[SKD]

13 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/football-news/thomas-delaney-transfer-southampton-update-5441663

"It is not our most urgent position to strengthen..."

"Stuart [Armstrong] played as a number six in the last few games, so now we have four number sixes, if you want."

Saints will instead look to offer an alternative in the number six position by signing a flexible full-back who is comfortable stepping into the midfield...

"They can then play as a six at times," he went on to explain. "But that position is not the position where we are definitely looking to sign somebody.

"We are looking at full-backs, wingers and other players," he said. "We are sure that there are some coming in the summer."

Whilst a potentially good deal, I did think it was a weird one. 

Probably just being used by agents to generate interest from a bigger club.

[FarehamSaintJames]

I reckon we’ll get one full back, one winger and a younger striker.

Can’t see us splashing the cash, reckon it’ll be a summer of clearing the deadwood that don’t want to be here plus getting only a few additions.

[SuperSAINT]

Just now, FarehamSaintJames said:

I reckon we’ll get one full back, one winger and a younger striker.

Can’t see us splashing the cash, reckon it’ll be a summer of clearing the deadwood that don’t want to be here plus getting only a few additions.

Have to get an 1 extra fullback in on top of that.

[Matthew Le God]

2 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

I reckon we’ll get one full back, one winger and a younger striker.

That would leave us with 2 PL quality fullbacks. I think we'll get two new fullbacks at worst, but hopefully three.

[woodsaint1]

6 hours ago, CB Fry said:

I agree with Lighthouse, of course.

I still have no idea that you need to pretend there was a "genius move" around Hoedt when that wasn't even a concept at the time, no one breathing air believed he was signed to make Virgil stay.

You're using it as proof of a failed idea (including posting up that link) but it wasn't an idea and no one at all thought it was.

Jeez I thought the #oohdanishfriends maybe gave it away that I was joking. Still think Vesty signs a new contract regardless of any interest in Delaney

[igsey]

Looks like there may be some Bournemouth players suddenly available...

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, woodsaint1 said:

Jeez I thought the #oohdanishfriends maybe gave it away that I was joking. Still think Vesty signs a new contract regardless of any interest in Delaney

Didn't think I ever replied to you so yes, I get it.

I don't think we'll sign this Delaney guy anyway.

[Chez]

35 minutes ago, igsey said:

Looks like there may be some Bournemouth players suddenly available...

Lloyd Kelly the obvious candidate. He looked talented. I've not seen him play for a while though - anyone able to provide an up to date assessment?

[Saint Garrett]

Been linked with Danjuma recently too. Wonder if there is a deal to be done there. Think Brooks will be out of our price range 

[SuperSAINT]

26 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

Been linked with Danjuma recently too. Wonder if there is a deal to be done there. Think Brooks will be out of our price range 

Danjuma must be worth more than Brooks at this point?

[Badger]

7 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/football-news/thomas-delaney-transfer-southampton-update-5441663

"It is not our most urgent position to strengthen..."

"Stuart [Armstrong] played as a number six in the last few games, so now we have four number sixes, if you want."

Saints will instead look to offer an alternative in the number six position by signing a flexible full-back who is comfortable stepping into the midfield...

"They can then play as a six at times," he went on to explain. "But that position is not the position where we are definitely looking to sign somebody.

"We are looking at full-backs, wingers and other players," he said. "We are sure that there are some coming in the summer."

Wasn't Ralph and the club in a similarly buoyant mood this time last year when the talk was of signing Zeefuik ?

7 hours ago, SKD said:

Whilst a potentially good deal, I did think it was a weird one. 

Probably just being used by agents to generate interest from a bigger club.

Shame looked too good an opportunity at a relatively low price.

[Badger]

2 hours ago, Chez said:

Lloyd Kelly the obvious candidate. He looked talented. I've not seen him play for a while though - anyone able to provide an up to date assessment?

What has his position been for them ? I thought he was a LB on leaving Bristol City but a quick google search indicates CB ?

[woodsaint1]

Move on Elyounnoussi and Djenepo, bring in Danjuma. Bournemouth will have to start cashing in on some of their best players as their parachute payments will be dropping

[VectisSaint]

6 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

I reckon we’ll get one full back, one winger and a younger striker.

Can’t see us splashing the cash, reckon it’ll be a summer of clearing the deadwood that don’t want to be here plus getting only a few additions.

We won't be getting an extra winger or striker, but we may replace ones that we shift. We will probably bring in a new keeper, 2 or 3 of our current ones will be shipped out to make way. Ralph wants 2 experienced players in each position, so the extras are likely to be at FB (possibly 3) and CM. People need to keep in mind the difference between additional players and simply exchanging what we have in other positions. 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

7 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

That would leave us with 2 PL quality fullbacks. I think we'll get two new fullbacks at worst, but hopefully three.

Three seems unlikely. It's pretty clear from Ralph's comments that "two in each position" doesn't necessarily mean players won't be covering more than one position

[MarkSFC]

1 hour ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Three seems unlikely. It's pretty clear from Ralph's comments that "two in each position" doesn't necessarily mean players won't be covering more than one position

I think it depends on the versatility of the "third" FB as in KWP being 1, a new out and out LB being 2 whether we sign 2 or 3 FBs. 

I'm interested to see who we get rid of as I can't help thinking the squad needs a proper overhaul. Easier said than done of course but I would sell;

Long, Djeneppo, Redmond, Stephens, McCarthy, Gunn or Forster, Obefemi, and a few of the kids. 

 

The kids I'd keep would be Ferry, Tella (pretty clearly!), and Watts.

 

I'd like to see us sign a striker, an AM/winger, DCM, a young CB unless Tchaptchat is deemed ready, a first-choice GK, and obviously some fullbacks.

[Cartman]

1 hour ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Three seems unlikely. It's pretty clear from Ralph's comments that "two in each position" doesn't necessarily mean players won't be covering more than one position

He said one of the fullbacks would be someone who can also cover CM, so three actually seems quite likely.

[SuperSAINT]

5 minutes ago, Cartman said:

He said one of the fullbacks would be someone who can also cover CM, so three actually seems quite likely.

Can't see it, but Maitland-Niles?

[Dusic]

10 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

Can't see it, but Maitland-Niles?

Doubt it. Probably valued at more than he is really worth, and seemingly doesn't want to be a full back.

Ralph seemed pretty clear that he saw #6 as covered now Romeu is back and Armstrong has proven himself there. Thats four senior options plus any emerging talents which should be enough.

[SuperSAINT]

On 19/05/2021 at 22:43, Sideways Jim said:

I wonder if we have been keeping an eye on Ryan Gauld, would be well within our budget and knows Armstrong well so would bed in quite well

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/ryan-gauld-wanted-southampton-transfer-24164906

[Chez]

If we sign Theo, Minamoto and two fullbacks (one to replace Bertie and one to cover both sides) are we going to improve much on this season? Same players, same coach, same outcome? I guess Tella will probably improve and we wont have another major injury crisis...

What will be the same is that we will struggle to shift the loaned players out on loan again. And I don't see anyone else leaving that we don't want. Who is going to buy Gunn or Long or Djenepo or Obefemi...?

[Dusic]

13 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/ryan-gauld-wanted-southampton-transfer-24164906

Interesting player, available on a free and maybe a bit of a wildcard. Obvious talent, technical and left footed but has never really matched the unrealistic hype.

Is he better than Minamino? Probably not.

[northam soul]

9 hours ago, Dusic said:

Interesting player, available on a free and maybe a bit of a wildcard. Obvious talent, technical and left footed but has never really matched the unrealistic hype.

Is he better than Minamino? Probably not.

I really hope we are not going to waste any of our limited budget on Minamino.

We really need to try and find an upgrade on the likes of him Djeneppo and Redmond if we are looking at attacking players.

Moussa for me is just not good enough and has been here long enough now to show what he can do.

As for a number 6 why shouldn’t we sign someone if he is better than our current crop.

[Dusic]

2 minutes ago, northam soul said:

I really hope we are not going to waste any of our limited budget on Minamino.

As for a number 6 why shouldn’t we sign someone if he is better than our current crop.

As you say, we have a limited budget. So no huge need for a new no6 given other positions have a more pressing need.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

9 hours ago, Chez said:

If we sign Theo, Minamoto and two fullbacks (one to replace Bertie and one to cover both sides) are we going to improve much on this season? Same players, same coach, same outcome? I guess Tella will probably improve and we wont have another major injury crisis...

What will be the same is that we will struggle to shift the loaned players out on loan again. And I don't see anyone else leaving that we don't want. Who is going to buy Gunn or Long or Djenepo or Obefemi...?

Having a proper attacking threat down the left like we have on the right from KWP could actually be pretty huge for our attacking play.

I share your lack of enthusiasm for Minamino though

[wooley7]

26 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Having a proper attacking threat down the left like we have on the right from KWP could actually be pretty huge for our attacking play.

I share your lack of enthusiasm for Minamino though

This.

my hope is we get a quality left back.  Will make a massive difference to the balance of our attack.   Most important signing in my book.
 

After that, would love a quality 10 too but as long as we get the LB and a bit more depth, I would be ok with that.

[Whitey Grandad]

52 minutes ago, wooley7 said:

This.

my hope is we get a quality left back.  Will make a massive difference to the balance of our attack.   Most important signing in my book.
 

After that, would love a quality 10 too but as long as we get the LB and a bit more depth, I would be ok with that.

First priority in my view.

[DT]

Not interested in Delaney apparently, even at that price. If we spunk it away on Minamino they’ve lost their minds. 

[stevy777_x]

24 minutes ago, DT said:

Not interested in Delaney apparently, even at that price. If we spunk it away on Minamino they’ve lost their minds. 

I could see from the very first game that Minamino isn t suited to the PL

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I think we should all prepare for an influx of “Jack of all trades, master of none” type of player.  Flexibility to play wherever seems to be the answer to dealing with the cash flow situation. 

[skintsaint]

if only Paul Warhurst was still around...

[Matthew Le God]

22 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

I could see from the very first game that Minamino isn t suited to the PL

He scored 2 goals in his first 3 Saints games. So was proving to be somewhat effective from the time you are talking about.

Edited 23 May, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[stevy777_x]

3 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

He scored 2 goals in his first 3 Saints games. So was proving to be somewhat effective from the time you are talking about.

Aside from the goals he had no effect on our play and was absent

[TWar]

Seeing a few links to Ryan Guald (https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/ryan-gauld-wanted-southampton-transfer-24164906) apparently just had a superb season in Portugal.

[Saint Matty 76]

59 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

Aside from the goals he had no effect on our play and was absent

Just ignore his comments. He was the worst player on the pitch against Chelsea outside of the goal, been the same with most games since.

Goodness me if we decide to waste anywhere between 5-15m on him.

[Viking Saint]

21 hours ago, igsey said:

Looks like there may be some Bournemouth players suddenly available...

we'll probably end up with Shane Long.....

[qwertyell]

2 hours ago, TWar said:

Seeing a few links to Ryan Guald (https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/ryan-gauld-wanted-southampton-transfer-24164906) apparently just had a superb season in Portugal.

Portuguese media reporting he's La Liga bound.

[FarehamSaintJames]

Ditch all this “player for the future” crap.

Buy some bloody experience!

[Convict Colony]

THIS THREAD IS A SICK JOKE