Chez Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 5 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said: Exactly. It was obvious after about 15 mins that it was all wrong and was going to cost us dearly. He should have taken his own advice and been brave enough to change it then. Full credit to Hull though. They deserve the win on the balance of play, but we made it too easy for them in the first half. agree. after 25 minutes he needed to change the shape or formation. But he doesn't have that in his locker it seems. Hull were excellent. Deserved to win by more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintant Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 16 minutes ago, austsaint said: His hold up play and first touch is much better than Maras'. The starting lineup seemed wrong today - Smallbone and Rothwell was never going to work as a midfield pair. Why re-instate Manning? The improvement when Brooks, Fraser, Adams and Airibo came on was instant - it's not as though we had a comfortable cushion of points - should have started with a stronger line up. The starting line up didn't seem wrong it was wrong as many predicted before kick-off. RM should have realised within the first 20 minutes and made 3 subs. Edited February 20 by saintant 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefizzy14 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) Really disappointing night. The subs at half time made a real difference Aribo, Brooks and Adamd. Then when Aribo came on too and he got a goal. All four have to start on Saturday and hopefully Downes is back too. RM will need to address the issues of the first half. We move onto Saturday. Still a long way to go, keep the faith. Edited February 20 by davefizzy14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stknowle Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Just now, AlexLaw76 said: Can't wait to see russ-ball with far inferior players next year Alex straight in with his glass half full take on things as ever. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Ralph Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Aribo, Adams and Brooks were good. Manning and Rothwell are pony. martin too slow to change things in the first half when it was clear we couldn’t cope with the pressing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 13 games left and correct me if I am wrong but we still have both Leeds and Ipswich left to play so it's by no means over yet. All those saying "oh well, playoffs it is" are defeatists. Keep the faith. Support the boys. Martin may have made an error tonight with his team selection, these things happen. Top of the table Leicester lost the other day. Nobody is infallible. Hull came with a clear game plan and it worked for them. They are a very good side in this division and will likely make the playoffs. Draw a line under tonight and move on to the next one. 2 point in the grand scheme of things is not the end of the world. Had anyone offered us 4th position with 13 games left and only 2 points off 2nd at the start of the season or even in September, I think most of us would have snapped that up 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunglasses Ron Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 10 minutes ago, the colonel said: There will be other twists and turns, except for Leicester finishing top, before the end of the season. Still 13 games to go. Keep chins up. This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said: Can't wait to see russ-ball with far inferior players next year If he doesn't get promoted he should get sacked... Broadly speaking. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry_SFC Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 This says it all. Our results against the top half sides is what will cost us automatic promotion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Gifford Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 10 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said: Only reason we lost that was the manager not picking the best starting 11. Sorry that’s what I meant, not a pedigree league with us not having a pedigree manager, is what I was trying to say. I’ve put away the Henry Weston’s now, back in the cupboard for Christmas. 🥴🥴🥴🥴🥴 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Watson Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 On the manager again,the team that started was never going to win the game. Play offs certain now,why is it so difficult to put out you best team, Downes apart. Really pissed off. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaptopSaint Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Bad night. Blue line. Move on. Plenty of twists and turns to come but we really need Flynn back pronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 3 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said: Well we ent on a great unbeaten run. A run we needed to go on, just to make upthe lost ground and keep pace with 3 other clubs. Although we're light in the striker and fensive midifelder positions, we know we've got a strong team, with good support from the bench. Martin decided to pick a team that emphasised the weaknesses in our squad. Agianst a team who were sharper, quicker, with more pace and urgency than anything we could produce. Smallbone and Rothwell were never going to control the midfield. Manning was a weak link in both supporting the midfield and certainly in defence. Mara was a passenger up front. Edozie reverted to the poor decision making that saw him eased out of the team a while back. Neither AA or the more forward placed Stu could keep us in it. KWP was left to try some solo runs. We were poor across the team for the first, which epitomised the lack of tempo, aggression and control we'd ben showing. The second was a sloppy implementation of MartinBall. Bieng kind, you could argue that we'd not offered decent passes all evening. But Rothwell had other options and ran into trouble anyway. We offered none of the positives from MartinBall. And September and some recent games have shown us what happens when we don't have those positives. It took until very late in the game for us to have any kind of control or urgency. Notably, Hull dropped back after a few end to end exchanges, and certainly when we got one back. It's disapointing that the manager has slipped back into some of the issues that gave us September's form. He's not helping himself by not picking a team capable of carrying out his plans. Hopefully, that will be the last of that. The thing is Martin does seem to think that it is all about him and his ‘favs’ rather than picking the best team …. There was no need at all to pick such a weak team tonight… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 minute ago, Harry_SFC said: This says it all. Our results against the top half sides is what will cost us automatic promotion. That's pretty stark isn't it!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 The worrying thing for me, more then the loss, was the clear blueprint that Hull used to completely fuck us. A consistent 4 player high press and we had no answer, especially without Downes receiving the initial pass. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Block41 Saint Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 minute ago, Harry_SFC said: This says it all. Our results against the top half sides is what will cost us automatic promotion. Flat track bullies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said: This says it all. Our results against the top half sides is what will cost us automatic promotion. Would look a bit better with a green highlight for WBA away, although red for Hull at home negates that. Edited February 20 by badgerx16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry_SFC Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Just now, badgerx16 said: Would look a bit better with a green highlight for WBA away. Indeed but it also doesn't have tonight's result. I wouldn't fancy us in the play offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obelisk Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 21 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said: Better than no points That's what we got and deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 3 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said: This says it all. Our results against the top half sides is what will cost us automatic promotion. That's quite damning, met any team with a little quality and we struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintant Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Every game at this stage of the season is precious so today was not the time for RM to do what he did. He joked in the press conference that they weigh up every option, consider every possibility then put the names in a tombola box and draw out 11 - maybe he wasn't joking after that first half line-up and the shit show that ensued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golac's Cunning Stunts Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 minute ago, Saint86 said: If he doesn't get promoted he should get sacked... Broadly speaking. Yes he should. Problem is he is too arrogant. You have to adapt styles of play according to the opposition you are facing. Heard him blabbing the other day about how we won’t change our style when we go to anfield. Arrogance or naivety I don’t know. But if you go to anfield blabbing shite like that you will be coming away with a hammering 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Need to get that game next week out of the picture, since beating Watford we’ve wobbled. ………or we’ve decided to hang around for next season so we can have rumble with them down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Matty 76 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Not just a one off then, shite stuff for most of it Smallbone and Rothwell comically bad Aribo and Che only positives, if not just for the fact they were the only ones showing for the ball Not sure I’d want Hull in the playoffs, did what we do just better for the most of it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patches O Houlihan Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 5 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said: This says it all. Our results against the top half sides is what will cost us automatic promotion. We do look like flat track bullies on that chart 😕 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stknowle Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 7 minutes ago, Crouchie's Lawyer said: 13 games left and correct me if I am wrong but we still have both Leeds and Ipswich left to play so it's by no means over yet. All those saying "oh well, playoffs it is" are defeatists. Keep the faith. Support the boys. Martin may have made an error tonight with his team selection, these things happen. Top of the table Leicester lost the other day. Nobody is infallible. Hull came with a clear game plan and it worked for them. They are a very good side in this division and will likely make the playoffs. Draw a line under tonight and move on to the next one. 2 point in the grand scheme of things is not the end of the world. Had anyone offered us 4th position with 13 games left and only 2 points off 2nd at the start of the season or even in September, I think most of us would have snapped that up I for one expect solid gold infallibility of my manager and football team. They have not given me that tonight the b'stards. How am I supposed to get up for work in the morning after that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 38 minutes ago, Morse said: First half v Huddersfield, Bristol City and now this. We've been found out. Press us hard and we break. You're right, this is a real concern. No Downes and the others in midfield look rushed. Better when Aribo and Brooks were on but Hull looked good, pressed hard, created a lot of chances and to be fair to them, they didn't go out of their way to waste time at the end of the game. Can't complain about the result. Annoyed with RM's starting line-up, especially Rothwell, but I'm still expecting Leeds to blow up on a couple of games (starting with Leicester on Friday) and we'll be back in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patches O Houlihan Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 2 minutes ago, Saint Matty 76 said: Aribo and Che only positives, if not just for the fact they were the only ones showing for the ball That's harsh on Fraser, Brookes, KWP, THB, JB and Stu at the very least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmickey3 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) Absolute hideous first half. Terrible choice of midfield Downes not ready again despite being told was close the last 2 games,are we not being told the real story?? If Leeds beat Leicester then its playoffs for us Edited February 20 by tdmickey3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Just now, Chez said: if he had picked a different side, we may have still lost. Even with the subs we still really struggled to get out of our own half, never mind create chances. They had some of their own too. Basically, IMO our style and inability to cope with the press was the reason we lost, not the picking of Rothwell etc. Unless we adjust our game a tad against the press, we will struggle in the play offs. Russball feels like Bazball. We both love it but hate it at times. He reverted back to KWP and Manning pushing high and narrow, leaving Rothwell totally exposed as it he isn't a DM that can sweep up and cover the spaces. Without Downes, leaving Stephens back with Bednarek and Hardwood-Bellis when out of possession kept us pretty solid against West Brom. Reverting back to the system that didn't work against Bristol City is what lost us the game today. Leaving such talent and experience on the bench struck me as arrogant. Aribo and Brooks especially were both dominant last game so to keep them on the bench was an odd decision. It was like the second half against West Brom didn't happen. We were playing strong opposition today that are in potent form since their January arrivals. You play your strongest players in top of table clashes. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Soze Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Absolute shambles. Martin out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Matty 76 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 4 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said: That's harsh on Fraser, Brookes, KWP, THB, JB and Stu at the very least Don’t think any of those were noteworthy, in particular Stu who I thought was poor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 14 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said: This says it all. Our results against the top half sides is what will cost us automatic promotion. The problem we have is that the teams we might face in the play offs generally come from the top half of the table. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Russball is ok against the dross, and an absolute liability against a half decent press. There’s a lot of dross in the league this season but tonight was not the night to fuck about like that. Again. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 4 minutes ago, CB Fry said: The problem we have is that the teams we might face in the play offs generally come from the top half of the table. We could end up in the playoffs with three other teams that we're unbeaten against though by the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 minute ago, Jack said: Russball is ok against the dross, and an absolute liability against a half decent press. There’s a lot of dross in the league this season but tonight was not the night to fuck about like that. Again. Doesn't bode well for playing it in the Prem does it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 21 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said: This says it all. Our results against the top half sides is what will cost us automatic promotion. It will cost us the playoffs as well mate.... we won't be playing huddersfield and co in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyNumber7 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Just back, disappointing performance especially the first half, but fair play to Hull they were excellent. Might have been a different game if we had scored with that very good chance early on. Aribo was great again after coming on but the damage was already done, can't keep giving teams two goal head starts. Hey ho, Leeds favourites now but let's see how they cope with being out in front. Loved THB's 'chin up' gesture to the fans at the end. Keep the faith, plenty more twists and turns to come, onto Saturday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErwinK1961 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 2 minutes ago, Saint86 said: It will cost us the playoffs as well mate.... we won't be playing huddersfield and co in the playoffs. Perhaps wait and see what that table looks like when we’ve played everyone twice before writing our chances off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Shockingly bad first half performance (though some credit to Hull). Unable to pass the ball. Better 2nd half but we never looked like scoring (although we did). We really can't play when teams come and attack us or play us at our own game. I don't believe you can put everything down to Downes missing, we are not a one-man team, God help us if we are. Rothwell was shocking tonight, just like Charles was against Huddersfield. No energy, unable to make simple passes, putting ourselves in danger at the back without being convincing that we could get out. Bazunu seemingly had his boots on the wrong feet in the first half, his passing is usually spot on, but tonight. I think we loaned out the wrong player in January, we should have kept hold of Charley and let Sulemana go, he is bringing nothing to our game, except misplaced expectancy. Very disheartened. I don't fancy our chances in the play-offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Hull were excellent. Possession based football played at speed ,with a great high press and great defensively but broke with pace. We were lucky to only concede 2. Extremely well coached side. Wonder if their Manager thinks he’s some sort of football genius who has invented a new style of football. Lego- Picked the wrong side. Fucking no need for it, stop trying to be too clever. Out coached tonight. Baz- Worse game this year. Manning- Why? Smallbone- Starting to seriously annoy me now. Bald headed cunt needs a spell on the sidelines until he stops fucking mincing about. Adam Armstrong- Fuck me, I don’t care how many goals he’s scored, he’s fucking pony. He sums up how fucking shite most teams are this season. No quality at all. Brookes, Aribo, Frasier, fucking excellent. If these 3 don’t start Sat, Lego needs sectioning. Che Adams-Bang average, but unfortunately bang average puts him head and shoulders above Mara & Adam Armstrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 We had to use three subs to rectify the consequences of a dreadful starting line-up, but it wasn’t just that. We had “Russball with no Option B” jammed up our own jacksies tonight. We couldn’t penetrate Hull’s press, and they compressed things so much that we were once caught offside three yards inside their half. But did we look for the early ball over the top to counter it? Did we ****. Until we develop that, Russball is far too easy to negate. This team’s strength is also its greatest achilles heel – Russ’s belief in himself. Tonight, and not for the first time, it crossed into arrogance. I don’t want to see Rothwell or Manning IN another starting line up, and I’d be happy enough if we don’t see Aribo and Fraser OUT of one. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Too many bad nights at the moment. Our run up to Bristol City was so good, cannot take that away from us - but even slightly before that the chinks started to show. Giving head starts to poor sides Huddersfield is bad enough, but to do it against slightly better opposition in the forthcoming games is quite simply a bit of a disaster. I think it's quite clear what our kryptonite is - high pressing teams who close the gaps, and transition at speed with pace down the flanks. Leicester had that, did us 4-1. Sunderland had that, did us 5-0. Hull had that, they've done us. Huddersfield had that, they had a good go as well (but they were of a lesser quality so still allowed us chances). It's a little concerning it has to be said. That first half was simply not good enough, too slow, too passive, weak as fucking piss in the middle (as expected), and it was a doddle for Hull really. I'd have had no complaints if we'd walked in 4 or 5-0 down, it was that bad. 2nd half was marginally better, but you're not going to recover from a start like that against decent sides. It was game over as soon as the 2nd went in. Lots of huff and puff in the second half, I thought Aribo did well when he came on and Adams did give us a focal point (less said about Mara the better). We really cannot afford this to transition into a horrible inconsistent run, we've already had our bad run this season in September - we cannot afford another one, simple as that - the standard is too high this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Leeds fans said we are flat track bullied. They are rihht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gammon cheeks Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Play your best team against a decent side like Hull ..Martin did not ..that is why we lost! Mara really is a lazy player to be honest . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Just now, gammon cheeks said: Play your best team against a decent side like Hull ..Martin did not ..that is why we lost! Mara really is a lazy player to be honest . Yeah the team wasn't right. We played that weak as piss midfield in Bristol and it ended just as I'd have expected it to, to try it again against better opposition is nuts. Our recruitment has been ok this season, but we have left a glaring gap in that number 6 role. We simply have no one to do Downes role and that is going to bite us in the arse imo. Had a feeling since the start of the season about our lack of a proper DM cover. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee On Solent Saint Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 5 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said: Leeds fans said we are flat track bullied. They are rihht Don't give a fuck what Leeds think of us to be honest. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldandtired Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Other teams should be begging for a video of this game tonight. It was the exact template of how to play against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 1 minute ago, Oldandtired said: Other teams should be begging for a video of this game tonight. It was the exact template of how to play against us. I think Hull borrowed the video from their Yorkshire mates in Huddersfield, they did exactly the same. Difference is that Hull are better quality so didn't afford us the gaps that Huddersfield did, but the approach was pretty much identical. Close the passing lanes, press hard and transition at pace. There are goals for teams against us if they do that, guaranteed. Edited February 20 by S-Clarke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 As poor as we were in the first half we shot ourselves in the foot by missing a glorious chance in the 11th minute and gifting them their 2nd goal. Suspect Rothwell may be on the bench for a while, shows glimpses of quality but looks horribly off the pace and his touch still looks rusty. I can understand rotating players whilst we’re playing twice a week but that wouldn’t apply to Manning returning for Stephens. Poor first half, better second half, fair but disappointing result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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