Saints 2-2 Burnley - Match Thread

[le_tiss]

35 minutes ago, obelisk said:

Looking at that table I'm still having trouble spotting 3 teams that are obviously worse than Saints.

[Le Timmier]

13 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I've given up with Ralph.

Because he left Cornet unmarked for their first goal or because he fired wide from 2 yards when he had an open goal? 

[Chapel End]

14 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I've given up with Ralph.

I've given up with some fans 

[Lighthouse]

I thought we set up well and had a decent game plan. Those glaring misses by Redmond, Walcott and then Liv hitting the post, coupled with Bednarek having his standard lapse for the equaliser were the difference between a draw and comfortable win. Four points from two games isn’t the most upsetting return we’ve ever had.

[Disco Stu]

44 minutes ago, Le Timmier said:

Because he left Cornet unmarked for their first goal or because he fired wide from 2 yards when he had an open goal? 

Because he keeps choosing the players that continue to make those mistakes. Players like Walcott chosen over Tella, Armstrong or even Djenepo and then leaving it far too late every game to make subs. What's the point in bringing A Armstrong on in the 89th minute?

Dropping leads is a common Ralph trait. This isn't based on today. It's based on the last two years and I'm finally sick of it. The buck stops with the manager.

Edited 23 October, 2021 by Disco Stu

[DT]

We need to sell JWP to fund a high quality centre back, keeper and pay off Walcott’s contract to just let him coach or something 

[Saint_clark]

33 minutes ago, nta786 said:

Tino only cost £5m though?

I'd understand your argument if we spent £30m on him or something but ultimately if we buy a £1m squad filler in CM who is better than Romeu/JWP then I don't think anyone would be complaining if he started every game.

But when £5million is a big chunk of our limited budget, it does make a difference. For example, a large chunk of that money could have been added to Ings' contract offer, and we'd be much better off with him up top and KWP at right back.

 

[Jimmy_D]

Bossed the game, dropped two points due to a combination of being sloppy twice at the back, missed chances, an utter bellend of a ref, and Burnley’s patented 10-0-0 formation.

Burnley offered absolutely nothing and were time wasting after 20 minutes. Would be amazed if they’re not toast this season.

 

[niceandfriendly]

24 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I've given up with Ralph.

Have a cuppa tea, breathe deeply for a while and come back on here when you've got your head together.

[Disco Stu]

Just now, niceandfriendly said:

Have a cuppa tea, breathe deeply for a while and come back on here when you've got your head together.

I haven't just formed this opinion 😂

[adrian lord]

4 minutes ago, DT said:

We need to sell JWP to fund a high quality centre back, keeper and pay off Walcott’s contract to just let him coach or something 

I think there is merit in this idea, but I'd also bin Redmond as well as JWP, and use some of the overall proceeds to get a forward that can hit the back of the net. 

[TWar]

We were unlucky imo, Redmond challenging Djenepo for worst finish of the season. Shame no JWP as would have been nice to line up with him next to Diallo when they were camping behind the ball

[Daft Kerplunk]

Part of me feels a little sorry for Ralph as players just don’t move the ball forward well enough at all…but then he continues to stick with them and makes strange selections/substitutions.
 

Thank goodness Leeds were heavily down on players as we would likely still be looking for a first win.

[Katalinic]

We've totally lost any kind of identity.  Walcott starting and then staying on after half time is bewildering. I cannot think of an occasion where Ralph has influenced a game with decent subs. If he did go I wouldn't be that fussed.

[gammon cheeks]

Good game ....at the end of the day its two bottom 6 teams trying not to get relegated .

[DT]

Seriously, is there something contractual with Walcott? Must play when fit or costs us more if he doesn’t play a certain amount of games? That kind of thing?

[Toussaint]

46 minutes ago, UpweySaint said:

 His subs needed to come earlier and Theo looks like a poor call in hindsight.  

“Hindsight” He is absolutely finished, wtf was Ralph thinking starting him? I don’t even want to see him on the bench!  It happens to everyone, one day your legs  just don’t respond to the signals from your brain anymore, that day came some time last season for Theo.

Edited 23 October, 2021 by Toussaint

[Lighthouse]

10 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

But when £5million is a big chunk of our limited budget, it does make a difference. For example, a large chunk of that money could have been added to Ings' contract offer, and we'd be much better off with him up top and KWP at right back.

 

We offered Ings what was reasonable. In fact I’d go so far as to say generous, for a frequently injured 29 year old, who’d just scored 12 goals. If we’d caved in and offered him something whopping, every other player we ever tried to sign from now on would be demanding something proportionate to that.

 

I honestly don’t get this kind of criticism. After January everyone was bemoaning our total lack of respectable cover at fullback. We go out and sign someone who is not only ‘cover’ but the best RB we’ve had at the club for decades - For £5m - and people complain. I’m astonished. I honestly think if we’d signed another Pied or Martina for the same money, people would be more satisfied, because then he’d just be ‘cover’. Because he’s actually good enough to put KWP on the bench, people are genuinely annoyed that we’ve wasted £5m on someone too good. I’m baffled.

[Baird of the land]

6 minutes ago, Katalinic said:

We've totally lost any kind of identity.  Walcott starting and then staying on after half time is bewildering. I cannot think of an occasion where Ralph has influenced a game with decent subs. If he did go I wouldn't be that fussed.

In a number of games this season he has made good subs at the right time.

[VectisSaint]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

I cannot believe Redmond stayed on the pitch and Broja was taken off.

Broja was  learly limping as he came off. 

[IFHP]

18 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

Bossed the game, dropped two points due to a combination of being sloppy twice at the back, missed chances, an utter bellend of a ref, and Burnley’s patented 10-0-0 formation.

Burnley offered absolutely nothing and were time wasting after 20 minutes. Would be amazed if they’re not toast this season.

 

Offered absolutley nothing yet still scored 2 goals?

[Manuel]

Cornet made the difference for them.  Without him Burnley looked pretty toothless.  Shame we couldn't have got him, looks a steal at 14m?

[Jimmy_D]

11 minutes ago, IFHP said:

Offered absolutley nothing yet still scored 2 goals?

Yep. Due to our mistakes rather than anything Burnley did.

[Chewy]

Just about happy enough with 4 points from those 2 games, but this was not a great Burnley side and we should be winning these games. 
Both centre backs made errors for the equaliser but it was a top finish; combine that finish with our wastefulness and that’s the difference 

And yet that’s the problem - the difference should have been greater. Walcott was anonymous, Mo equally until he switched inside, and while Redmond worked hard and had some good touches, he’s not a no 10 and he’s not a striker. Why it takes Ralph 75 mins to change any of this three with a bench full of options (Tella, 2 Armstrongs, Djenepo and Adams) is beyond me. Granted we could do with better quality here, but if the people playing aren’t doing anything, change it.

We shaded a match despite only playing with 9 men for half of it!

Sorry, but imho with better management we win that game comfortably irrespective of Cornets finish and Redmond and Walcotts misses.

On the plus side, Salisu, Diallo, Tino and Broja look better with every game and Stuart has more minutes under his belt. That’s half of an extremely useful football team right there!

[nta786]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

Yep. Due to our mistakes rather than anything Burnley did.

You could argue both our goals came from mistakes too then... no one marking Tino for our first and that awful pass from Tarkowski led to our second.

Their first goal was worked well, Dwight McNeil drawed to of our players into the centre before working it out wide to Taylor who had time and space to put a good cross in.

Also whilst Bednarek should have dealt with the ball better for the 2nd, Cornet still had a lot to do from there and executed it well. 

In the end regardless of what the xG and other stats say, I will begrudgingly say a draw was fair, but they were there for the taking if we knew how to finish.

Leicester drew 2-2 at home to this Burnley team too, they will get results against many a sides regardless of the table.

 

Edited 23 October, 2021 by nta786

[Whitey Grandad]

They had a header hit the inside of the post and go into the goal. We had a shot that hit the inside of the post and didn’t. Fine margins.

[hypochondriac]

29 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

We offered Ings what was reasonable. In fact I’d go so far as to say generous, for a frequently injured 29 year old, who’d just scored 12 goals. If we’d caved in and offered him something whopping, every other player we ever tried to sign from now on would be demanding something proportionate to that.

 

I honestly don’t get this kind of criticism. After January everyone was bemoaning our total lack of respectable cover at fullback. We go out and sign someone who is not only ‘cover’ but the best RB we’ve had at the club for decades - For £5m - and people complain. I’m astonished. I honestly think if we’d signed another Pied or Martina for the same money, people would be more satisfied, because then he’d just be ‘cover’. Because he’s actually good enough to put KWP on the bench, people are genuinely annoyed that we’ve wasted £5m on someone too good. I’m baffled.

I suspect its people looking at things in the longer term. Whatever happens, tino will probably move on and quite possibly next season. Kwp was possibly our best player last year so to tick him off in order to accommodate someone who is here most likely for a season is a bit of a shame. Personally I'd have tino rm anyway. 

[CAH61]

Theo is nowhere near the player that broke through into the Saints team as a teenager when he relied on a blistering turn of pace to get beyond defenders. He has never been blessed with the best football brain and often chooses wrong options in promising positions.
It appears that he is getting game time to justify his salary but to be honest he hasn't pulled up any trees in the PL for a long time.

[Ade]

• McCarthy looked like he had concrete boots on for the second. Would Forster have saved that? Could do nothing for the first.
• Tino - best player on the pitch. deserved his goal, but should have picked up Cornet for the first.
•  Bedenarek is turning into a liability in games where his decision making and defensive frailties are really harming the team. Seems to have a brainfart in him every game. Personally I think Stephens has become a better defender.
• Salisu had a solid game again. 
• Perraud was nothing special but will get better with more game time.
• Romeo had his usual game. Nothing spectacular but did things well.
• Diallo had a solid game. Always looks forward for a pass first. Something JWP needs to learn.
• Walcott shouldn't be anywhere near starting eleven, even the bench looks a tad too far for him. Such a poor decision to sign him and I can only assume that Ralph must have made that decision after his loan spell and is trying to justify it by playing him. His finishing is poor, his pace is no longer a threat and he doesn't create much, if anything. Too lightweight and a passenger for most matches.
• Redmond, apart from the miss, I thought had another decent game. Linked play, took on players, great cross for Walcott to miss wide. Took the corner for Tino's goal. 
• Broja took his goal really well. Gives us more options upfront with his runs off defenders and his ability in the air. Our best forward at the moment and can't see that changing
• Ellyanoussi had a decent game. Nothing spectacular but linked play well - almost scored with a header that clipped the post.
• S Armstrong looked off the pace still. Needs more game time.
• A Armstrong had no time to impress
• Adams, off the pace. Looks a championship player at times. Needs more to his game. He will be lucky to start many games this season I think.
• Ralph. Keeps stubbornly picking Walcott. Otherwise his game plan was good. Not sure who we could get to replace him that would do any better to be honest.

A 6 pointer but at least we didn't lose. If it were a boxing match we would have won on points as we were the better team and with a bit more luck or application would've won. We march on but it's going to be a long hard season.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Burnley are a reallly shitty team to play against, time wasting after ten minutes and niggly fouls just make them a team I would happily see relegated. The ref was pretty weak in my opinion, bookings for the time wasting antics would have stamped that out sharpish. Overall, a draw was probably a fair result. think they had three shots on target and scored from two. We just didn't work the keeper enough in the end. 

The miss aside, I thought Redmond was pretty good. Walcott, I was never a basher of him, but after that performance, he has no credit left in the bank. Total waste of a shirt, might as well have been playing with ten. Agree with most on here that we need a solid partner for Salisu, I don't think that any of the other three centre backs we have are good enough. We need a ball playing central defender to compliment him. 

It's a shame that our wide players aren't as effective as Cornet. Without him, it would probably have been a victory for us, he give them something different, and not Burnley like. 

 

 

[Lighthouse]

20 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I suspect its people looking at things in the longer term. Whatever happens, tino will probably move on and quite possibly next season. Kwp was possibly our best player last year so to tick him off in order to accommodate someone who is here most likely for a season is a bit of a shame. Personally I'd have tino rm anyway. 

You could literally use that argument to justify dropping any good player we’ve ever had. KWP was 4th choice at a Europa League club when Spurs sold him. If he thinks he should be untouchable at Saints he has a serious attitude problem, which I seriously doubt.

Both of them, and Perraud, will see plenty of football this season. After all the comments following January’s transfer window, I never thought having quality options in both fullback spots would be seen as ‘a shame’.

[Dark Munster]

1 hour ago, Katalinic said:

 Walcott starting and then staying on after half time is bewildering. 

I think we all are bewildered. I wonder why he picks him......

[CAH61]

7 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

The miss aside, I thought Redmond was pretty good. Walcott, I was never a basher of him, but after that performance, he has no credit left in the bank. Total waste of a shirt, might as well have been playing with ten. Agree with most on here that we need a solid partner for Salisu, I don't think that any of the other three centre backs we have are good enough. We need a ball playing central defender to compliment him. 

It's a shame that our wide players aren't as effective as Cornet. Without him, it would probably have been a victory for us, he give them something different, and not Burnley like. 

 

 

Jack Stephens was that player until his unfortunate injury, he's always been very comfortable on the ball.

Edited 23 October, 2021 by CAH61

[Monk]

Bit bored of Ralph and the team if honest. I find him incredibly naive, both tactically and regarding personnel. I completely disagree with the decision to keep Moi on the pitch today, he was incredibly ineffective, if it wasn't for his header in the first half, I don't recall him positively impacting any transition attacking/defensively.

Walcott, incredibly poor, his lack of decision making is so alarming. Incredibly re-active upon receiving the ball, never appears to have made a decision before being in possession and actually slows play down ironically. 

The game plan to draw a press from Burnley before hitting longer ranged pass was odd given the majority of the switching of play was in straight lines and not on the diagonal (ironically we has some success from this).

 

 

Edited 23 October, 2021 by Monk

[Lee On Solent Saint]

8 minutes ago, CAH61 said:

Jack Stephens was that player until his unfortunate injury, he's always been very comfortable on the ball.

He's still prone to lapse's in concentration. No doubting he has improved, but still wouldn't want to see him starting every week

[SambaMaverick]

Walcott - deary me, how's he even starting after his contributions to date?

Ralph totally inept at timing the substitutions yet again - useless

[Fatboy40]

Exciting second half, edge of the seat stuff (I had high hopes when Burnley's yellow cards started to increase and they looked at times frustrated enough to start making big mistakes)... however, and this triggers me so much, our best scoring option isn't even a player we own and who we only have until the end of the season (I hope there's no recall option).

Broja makes Adams and Armstrong look so mediocre 😔

[Appy]

Missed opportunity that, Burnley looked all over the place with Mee out. 
 

Didn’t get the Walcott selection at 2pm, didn’t get him being left on as long as he was even more. 
 

A competent goalkeeper saves their second goal. 

[alehouseboys]

Decent game, maybe more for the neutral, but frustrating. After that spell of pressure leading up to the equaliser and to halftime I thought the stars were aligned to push on second half attacking the Northam and finish them off (vocal support from the Northam better first half). Good start to go ahead but letting them back so soon after and how the game panned out was frustrating. Theo has probably played his way out of the starting eleven now, the PL has passed him by, bench at best.

How many weren't paying attention as Tino equalised while watching another near-miss on the big screen?

 

[Baird of the land]

4 minutes ago, Appy said:

Missed opportunity that, Burnley looked all over the place with Mee out. 
 

Didn’t get the Walcott selection at 2pm, didn’t get him being left on as long as he was even more. 
 

A competent goalkeeper saves their second goal. 

That's nonsense, it was a beautiful first time strike. Not many keepers would save that.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

4 minutes ago, alehouseboys said:

How many weren't paying attention as Tino equalised while watching another near-miss on the big screen?

 

I don't get why the whole game isn't shown on the big screens? Is it just to get more advertising revenue from companies that people have never heard of??

[Appy]

3 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

That's nonsense, it was a beautiful first time strike. Not many keepers would save that.

Ball bounces right in front of him, he should save it, he’s slow to react. 

[danjosaint]

I also viewing from inside stadium thought he was slow to even move from his line for there 1st, I could be wrong but not seen it on TV yet 

[Saints foreva]

28 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

That's nonsense, it was a beautiful first time strike. Not many keepers would save that.

He was slow to react but the real issue was Bednarek with his weak as fuck defending. Shame we didn't show some ambition when we signed a CB in the summer. 

[Billy the Kidd]

1 hour ago, CAH61 said:

Theo is nowhere near the player that broke through into the Saints team as a teenager when he relied on a blistering turn of pace to get beyond defenders. He has never been blessed with the best football brain and often chooses wrong options in promising positions.
It appears that he is getting game time to justify his salary but to be honest he hasn't pulled up any trees in the PL for a long time.

I think it was a romantic, but still odd all the same, move that Ralph shouldn’t have sanctioned, unless he is Ona tiny salary (say £30k pw). Much more and it would be madness. I can understand him coming on with 15 to go, but not starting. 

[Roo1976]

1 hour ago, CAH61 said:

Theo is nowhere near the player that broke through into the Saints team as a teenager when he relied on a blistering turn of pace to get beyond defenders. He has never been blessed with the best football brain and often chooses wrong options in promising positions.
It appears that he is getting game time to justify his salary but to be honest he hasn't pulled up any trees in the PL for a long time.

Hope hes not pulling up trees.................green party would be well pissed off, along with quite a few saints fans on this forum for even starting for christ sake.

[Give it to Ron]

1 hour ago, Chewy said:

Just about happy enough with 4 points from those 2 games, but this was not a great Burnley side and we should be winning these games. 
Both centre backs made errors for the equaliser but it was a top finish; combine that finish with our wastefulness and that’s the difference 

And yet that’s the problem - the difference should have been greater. Walcott was anonymous, Mo equally until he switched inside, and while Redmond worked hard and had some good touches, he’s not a no 10 and he’s not a striker. Why it takes Ralph 75 mins to change any of this three with a bench full of options (Tella, 2 Armstrongs, Djenepo and Adams) is beyond me. Granted we could do with better quality here, but if the people playing aren’t doing anything, change it.

We shaded a match despite only playing with 9 men for half of it!

Sorry, but imho with better management we win that game comfortably irrespective of Cornets finish and Redmond and Walcotts misses.

On the plus side, Salisu, Diallo, Tino and Broja look better with every game and Stuart has more minutes under his belt. That’s half of an extremely useful football team right there!

Great post sums up how I feel I doubt there was one Saints fan wanting Theo on for the second half he was abysmal yet takes an injury to get hooked off.

Poor management and abysmal subs far too late and Armstrong 2 minutes from end

[Roo1976]

Did you seen our new center backs performance?.................................... So as my formation had it, KWP at right back and Tino as right midfield. Then there wouldnt have been any need to play Walcott.

[Dellman]

1 hour ago, Dark Munster said:

I think we all are bewildered. I wonder why he picks him......

No we are not all bewildered. I, for one, think he is the best hope in the No 10 role, until Stu is fully fit.

[trousers]

Back from the game... My first since Feb 2020

A win wouldn't have been undeserved, but relatively happy with 4 points from the last two games. 

Somewhat baffled by the Walcott selection, and him not being subbed sooner, but apart from that, a decent performance overall. 

I feel a safe-ish mid-table outcome for us this season.