Carlos Alcaraz

[Baird of the land]

Hopefully the whole can’t play in structure nonsense will end like branfoot/le tiss with him scoring a couple of screamers next time he gets on the pitch.

[beatlesaint]

So he can’t be trusted but Aribo can? Fkin hell 😡

[VectisSaint]

4 hours ago, CSA96 said:

Full answer from Martin on Alcaraz:

I see the players every day. Charly is young, he doesn't speak the language much, if at all. We're asking him to play in a style with a lot of structure. He knows there's things he has to do better. I said it to Gilly, I knew that I would get criticised for not bringing him on, but it's about who you can trust at this moment in time.
 

It's been a difficult time for him. He's lost Willy, he's lost Lyanco - those were his two best mates in the group. He's a young man, he's miles away from his home. He's had some difficult news about his dad too. All of that is going on, but people don't see it or understand it. 

 

I think people are missing the point, he can't "trust" him because his head is not in the right place at the moment. The "news about his Dad" is possibly the most telling point. The language thing is interesting though, maybe he was depending on Willy and Lyanco to get him through (Lyanco was Portuguese speaker of course, but Portuguese/Spanish is relatively close), though it must be said Larios is also a Spanish speaker, but maybe not fully integrated into the group still. To be honest in the times he has made it on the pitch this season he has shown nothing to warrant a start, so maybe now we know why. Wonder what happened to his Dad? Its novel to get to hear this stuff, none of our last few managers would have let news like this out. 

[Harry_SFC]

1 hour ago, VectisSaint said:

I think people are missing the point, he can't "trust" him because his head is not in the right place at the moment. The "news about his Dad" is possibly the most telling point. The language thing is interesting though, maybe he was depending on Willy and Lyanco to get him through (Lyanco was Portuguese speaker of course, but Portuguese/Spanish is relatively close), though it must be said Larios is also a Spanish speaker, but maybe not fully integrated into the group still. To be honest in the times he has made it on the pitch this season he has shown nothing to warrant a start, so maybe now we know why. Wonder what happened to his Dad? Its novel to get to hear this stuff, none of our last few managers would have let news like this out. 

Alcaraz was good against Norwich but struggled against QPR. Funny that Smallbone gets picked every week despite being crap.

[Pamplemousse]

I'd love to see Edozie, Sulemana and Alcaraz on the pitch at the same time. Is it too much to ask to have our top attacking players actually playing together?

[Saint_clark]

18 hours ago, CSA96 said:

 

 

At some point, he will be on the pitch for us and he will be fantastic but now is not the right time for him, while this team is struggling.

Yeah, bringing your best players into the team when it's struggling is a crazy idea.

[Convict Colony]

Martins a numpty for his Alcaraz comments.

More so since the guys he trusts haven't turned up this season or in some cases every season.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

20 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

I think people are missing the point, he can't "trust" him because his head is not in the right place at the moment. The "news about his Dad" is possibly the most telling point. The language thing is interesting though, maybe he was depending on Willy and Lyanco to get him through (Lyanco was Portuguese speaker of course, but Portuguese/Spanish is relatively close), though it must be said Larios is also a Spanish speaker, but maybe not fully integrated into the group still. To be honest in the times he has made it on the pitch this season he has shown nothing to warrant a start, so maybe now we know why. Wonder what happened to his Dad? Its novel to get to hear this stuff, none of our last few managers would have let news like this out. 

Agree that whatever the situation with his dad is the key point there. And I hope whatever it is, works out for the lad.

Behind that though was "There are things he knows he needs to do better. It’s about who you trust at this moment. Your all in with this side or not.”

The "all in with this side or not" is connected to things he needs to do better and not the family situation. Alcaraz is a direct player, who may well not be best pleased at giving up a lot of his strengths to this tactic. I was going to say that whoever the manager is, there will be situations like this. But actually, that should be whoever the Saints manager is, there will be situations like this. A philosophy requires certain underlying things, that aren;t going to suit everyone. We've seen strikers (remember them?) wait and wait for passes, players switched between running at players and pass back and across at all times and on and on oover the last few years.

The way we set up leaves acres of space. We're in trouble at our own attacking corners. And we're in trouble when we give the ball away as well. Alcaraz's direct running and passing comes with the risk that there's absolutely no cover behind him. Martin's passing game and structure is supposed to be the better option. Alcaraz is young, and may well be having to learn to conform to a system (and one with massive glaring gaps in it) that he doesn't enjoy. Fortunately, he doesn;t need langiage skills to see the haunted, disenchanted faces elsewhere in the dressing room. Lots of them have also had to give up independent thought, as they become robots to whatever system we fail to correcty implement.

[aintforever]

It’s criminal to have Alcaraz sat on the bench while Smallbone ponces around the pitch doing fuck all. We need a manager who can get the best out of our best players if we are going to have any chance this season. I would play him as a No 10 in a 4-2-3-1 formation.

[qwertyell]

On 23/09/2023 at 18:06, CSA96 said:

I said it to Gilly, I knew that I would get criticised for not bringing him on, but it's about who you can trust at this moment in time.

This is the part that most bothers me - either during or in the immediate aftermath of a defeat, Martin was thinking about himself and how he might be perceived.

I don't think that's how you manage a side.

[Harry_SFC]

29 minutes ago, aintforever said:

It’s criminal to have Alcaraz sat on the bench while Smallbone ponces around the pitch doing fuck all. We need a manager who can get the best out of our best players if we are going to have any chance this season. I would play him as a No 10 in a 4-2-3-1 formation.

Yep in the position that suits him best. He can press the opposition high up the pitch and there's less defensive responsibility on him because he has two deeper midfielders behind him. 

[sandwichsaint]

Shoe-horning Smallbone and the captain into every starting XI is seriously hampering us in that it is then much harder to start Alcaraz or Sulemena.

Not saying that Alcaraz or Sully have been great but surely the manager would want to unleash/integrate potentially the two 'best' players we have?

Ridiculous at the weekend, we finally got Charles and Downes into the midfield, and then handed the third slot to Smallbone.

[Toussaint]

22 hours ago, Harry_SFC said:

Alcaraz was good against Norwich but struggled against QPR. Funny that Smallbone gets picked every week despite being crap.

Because he carries out instructions to the letter, therefore “trusted” ???

[benjii]

Let's say his dad is really ill and might die soon. What impact does that have? He's with the team and he's been dragged up to Boro to sit on the bench. If he's in such a terrible mental state that he can't possibly come off the bench then send him on compassionate leave. Otherwise, I'm sure he'd rather be on the pitch than sat there aimlessly.

I'm sure we've all worked with colleagues with family troubles. You either need time off or you don't. If he doesn't, don't start using his personal situation, which Martin has no business at all disclosing publicly, as an excuse for your own inept management.

It's bollocks. Basically, Martin doesn't know what to do with him.

[SambaMaverick]

2 hours ago, benjii said:

Let's say his dad is really ill and might die soon. What impact does that have? He's with the team and he's been dragged up to Boro to sit on the bench. If he's in such a terrible mental state that he can't possibly come off the bench then send him on compassionate leave. Otherwise, I'm sure he'd rather be on the pitch than sat there aimlessly.

I'm sure we've all worked with colleagues with family troubles. You either need time off or you don't. If he doesn't, don't start using his personal situation, which Martin has no business at all disclosing publicly, as an excuse for your own inept management.

It's bollocks. Basically, Martin doesn't know what to do with him.

Spot on mate. I'm sure this treatment is really going to attract the brightest and best from South America to play for our SR overlords.

This lot couldn't run a bath.

[trousers]

2 hours ago, benjii said:

Let's say his dad is really ill and might die soon. What impact does that have? He's with the team and he's been dragged up to Boro to sit on the bench. If he's in such a terrible mental state that he can't possibly come off the bench then send him on compassionate leave. Otherwise, I'm sure he'd rather be on the pitch than sat there aimlessly.

I'm sure we've all worked with colleagues with family troubles. You either need time off or you don't. If he doesn't, don't start using his personal situation, which Martin has no business at all disclosing publicly, as an excuse for your own inept management.

It's bollocks. Basically, Martin doesn't know what to do with him.

Yep, totally. As I said over the weekend, what's the point of having him on the bench if there's zero intention of playing him, regardless of the reason. (and I agree, if it is genuinely to do with his family situation then taking him all that way to sit on the bench isn't going to help his state of mind one iota)

[wild-saint]

5 hours ago, benjii said:

Let's say his dad is really ill and might die soon. What impact does that have? He's with the team and he's been dragged up to Boro to sit on the bench. If he's in such a terrible mental state that he can't possibly come off the bench then send him on compassionate leave. Otherwise, I'm sure he'd rather be on the pitch than sat there aimlessly.

I'm sure we've all worked with colleagues with family troubles. You either need time off or you don't. If he doesn't, don't start using his personal situation, which Martin has no business at all disclosing publicly, as an excuse for your own inept management.

It's bollocks. Basically, Martin doesn't know what to do with him.

I dont agree at all. 

Many a person in my experience have suffered personal problems and wanted to keep on working to keep their mind busy. From Alcaraz's personal mental health perspective thats fine but that certainly doesn't mean he is in a position to give his best in the team. Martin would have made a call whether he is ready mentally or not and rather than drop him to the bench he has decided to keep him in and around the squad. 

Not sure the mental health of a player and his usefulness to the team is that black and white. 

[hypochondriac]

19 minutes ago, wild-saint said:

I dont agree at all. 

Many a person in my experience have suffered personal problems and wanted to keep on working to keep their mind busy. From Alcaraz's personal mental health perspective thats fine but that certainly doesn't mean he is in a position to give his best in the team. Martin would have made a call whether he is ready mentally or not and rather than drop him to the bench he has decided to keep him in and around the squad. 

Not sure the mental health of a player and his usefulness to the team is that black and white. 

Agree. My main issue with the comments Martin made were that he muddied the waters regarding what his issue with Alcaraz was. Not following instructions and not being able to trust him is completely different from him having a tough time in his personal life. You shouldn't be conflating the two IMO and certainly he shouldn't be going into details about his family unprompted. 

[CamSaint]

On 23/09/2023 at 23:04, VectisSaint said:

The language thing is interesting though, maybe he was depending on Willy and Lyanco to get him through (Lyanco was Portuguese speaker of course, but Portuguese/Spanish is relatively close), though it must be said Larios is also a Spanish speaker, but maybe not fully integrated into the group still. 

I suspect it is even more deep-rooted than that. When Alcarez arrived Jones was manager and he spoke fluent Spanish and he was then replaced by Selles. So up until RM's arrival both managers had been able to easily communicate directly with him and RM can't. So it's hardly any surprise that Alcarez is struggling more than most even without his personal issues.

[VectisSaint]

7 minutes ago, CamSaint said:

I suspect it is even more deep-rooted than that. When Alcarez arrived Jones was manager and he spoke fluent Spanish and he was then replaced by Selles. So up until RM's arrival both managers had been able to easily communicate directly with him and RM can't. So it's hardly any surprise that Alcarez is struggling more than most even without his personal issues.

True, I forgot Jones was fluent in Spanish, I thought it was just Welsh and bollocks that were his 'fluencies' .

[Dman]

 

On 25/09/2023 at 07:07, benjii said:

Let's say his dad is really ill and might die soon. What impact does that have? He's with the team and he's been dragged up to Boro to sit on the bench. If he's in such a terrible mental state that he can't possibly come off the bench then send him on compassionate leave. Otherwise, I'm sure he'd rather be on the pitch than sat there aimlessly.

I'm sure we've all worked with colleagues with family troubles. You either need time off or you don't. If he doesn't, don't start using his personal situation, which Martin has no business at all disclosing publicly, as an excuse for your own inept management.

It's bollocks. Basically, Martin doesn't know what to do with him.

IMO its simple - we get him on the pitch (as far up the pitch as possible) and give him a free role in behind the striker. 

We play and tell Charles and Downes to sit behind him and do his dirty work and when they get the ball, look for him. 

Fraser and AA on the wings (AA LW, Fraser RW) are relatively hard workers, so they can chip in and do their bit as well. 4231 with the ball, 442 without it. 

[Toussaint]

Have it on good authority that Charley called Russ “el coño”, but Russ didn't get round to translating just before kick off on Saturday, up until the moment he had assumed it was a compliment, something like the great one, the Master, the one with the hair that is the envy of all men, or something along those lines.

Edited 27 September, 2023 by Toussaint

[Wade Garrett]

I don’t care about trust and the lingo, absolute bullshit excuses by the way.

He knows how to put the ball in the fucking onion bag.  That’s good enough for me.

[Lord Duckhunter]

He should watch some episodes of The Office and he might understand Russ a bit better. 

[Chez]

22 hours ago, CamSaint said:

I suspect it is even more deep-rooted than that. When Alcarez arrived Jones was manager and he spoke fluent Spanish and he was then replaced by Selles. So up until RM's arrival both managers had been able to easily communicate directly with him and RM can't. So it's hardly any surprise that Alcarez is struggling more than most even without his personal issues.

Honestly, how hard is it to explain to Alcaraz what you want from an attacking midfielder?

You can translate live audio using google.

We have a wage bill in the tens of millions. If language was an issue paying a translator to help would be money well spent. If we can find funds for a bloody set peice coach (do me a favour), we can find funds for a Spanish speaker.

[Convict Colony]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

Honestly, how hard is it to explain to Alcaraz what you want from an attacking midfielder?

You can translate live audio using google.

We have a wage bill in the tens of millions. If language was an issue paying a translator to help would be money well spent. If we can find funds for a bloody set peice coach (do me a favour), we can find funds for a Spanish speaker.

As someone said we have larios whose a native speaker and is hopefully getting closer to fitness to provide competition to manning

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

Honestly, how hard is it to explain to Alcaraz what you want from an attacking midfielder?

Normally not hard at all, for all the points you mention.

But what we want from an attacking midfielder is to not attack and to not be in midfield when he's the one having to race back from our own corners. 🙂

It adds a whole level of complexity, and no doubt frustration for Alcaraz.

[woodsaint1]

Called up to the latest Argentina squad 👏🏼👏🏼 surprising but fantastic for the lad

 

[notnowcato]

I haven't been on this thread since 23rd September, quite interesting reading it back.

Anyway, delighted for Charlie in making the Argie squad.  He was a key contributor in our performance at Leeds and was good enough at Stoke. 

[saint lard]

Congratulations to him…but really! 
they must be really scratching around. 
If that’s obviously based on performances for us….bloody hell. 
 

[Toussaint]

47 minutes ago, saint lard said:

Congratulations to him…but really! 
they must be really scratching around. 
If that’s obviously based on performances for us….bloody hell. 
 

I dunno, I think he'll fall into the " I can't believe he used to play for us" category, along with the likes of Shearer, VVD, Bale, Mane and so on...

[HarvSFC]

Good for us in that he won't see playing for Southampton in the Championship as having a negative impact on his international career for the immediate future. I remember when we got relegated to League One and the France Under-21 manager said he wouldn't call up Schneiderlin if he played in the third tier. Thankfully, Schneiderlin remained.

I am surprised that he got called up, though.

[disconnect]

Going and training with those players is going to do him the world of good. Showed some great touches in the last few matches and we know he can hit the back of the net. Exciting times for him.

[Saint Mikey]

If Argentina are digging into the second-tier talent pool, they must be scratching around. Don't get me wrong, I rate Alcaraz, and I think he's gonna be a solid player for us, but he's not quite cut from the same cloth as the legendary Argentina No 10s like Ortega, Veron, Aimar, and Pompey hero Riquelme (not to mention the top two guns in that list).

[Pamplemousse]

13 minutes ago, Saint Mikey said:

If Argentina are digging into the second-tier talent pool, they must be scratching around. Don't get me wrong, I rate Alcaraz, and I think he's gonna be a solid player for us, but he's not quite cut from the same cloth as the legendary Argentina No 10s like Ortega, Veron, Aimar, and Pompey hero Riquelme (not to mention the top two guns in that list).

They just won a World Cup, a certain Mr Southgate could learn from not picking players based on reputation.

[Saint_clark]

22 minutes ago, disconnect said:

Going and training with those players is going to do him the world of good. Showed some great touches in the last few matches and we know he can hit the back of the net. Exciting times for him.

Or it will make him see what the others are up to and demand a move in january. 

[SaintTex]

25 minutes ago, disconnect said:

Going and training with those players is going to do him the world of good. Showed some great touches in the last few matches and we know he can hit the back of the net. Exciting times for him.

Would it be too much to ask for Messi to transfer 1% of his skills to Alcaraz while there?

[JRM]

Got to be pleased for him, hopefully fires him up for Saturday and puts in a top performance. He looked absolutely knackered when going off against Stoke so probably not up to the 90 mins. 

Guess he might struggle for Hull away depending on when he's back from South America 

[davefizzy14]

Absolutely chuffed for Carlos, top class player for us

[Patches O Houlihan]

That's great news. Really pleased for Charly. 

One thing I love about him is his determination to get stuck in and try to influence the game. When he came on at Gillingham you could see how pissed off he was, you could see that he believed he could score four on his own to win us the game, even if the others on the pitch had given up hope.

In the end he only managed to get one goal for us, but it wasn't for want of trying. 

Understudy to Messi, playing for Saints 😁😁😁

[VectisSaint]

16 hours ago, JRM said:

Got to be pleased for him, hopefully fires him up for Saturday and puts in a top performance. He looked absolutely knackered when going off against Stoke so probably not up to the 90 mins. 

Guess he might struggle for Hull away depending on when he's back from South America 

Remember Gaston Ramirez and the problems caused by his flights home to South America. Good for him, but not necessarily good for Saints.

[Charlie Wayman]

16 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Or it will make him see what the others are up to and demand a move in january. 

That's the main worry and it also alerts bigger clubs. No doubt he is being monitored by them anyway so this recognition especially if he gets game time and does well will hasten his inevitable departure.

[gio1saints]

Delighted for him and proud for Saints. I’m not sure it’s accurate to call him understudy to Messi as there are one or two other Argentinian players who might feel it’s there title but he is obviously considered one of the best 3 or 4 Argentinian players in the world in his attacking midfield/ false nine / no. 10 type position. Which is a remarkable thing for the World Champions National team! 👏. 

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

That's the main worry and it also alerts bigger clubs. No doubt he is being monitored by them anyway so this recognition especially if he gets game time and does well will hasten his inevitable departure.

Whacks up his price as well which can only be a good thing if he's off anyway. 

[Convict Colony]

20 hours ago, JRM said:

Got to be pleased for him, hopefully fires him up for Saturday and puts in a top performance. He looked absolutely knackered when going off against Stoke so probably not up to the 90 mins. 

Guess he might struggle for Hull away depending on when he's back from South America 

Ironically I am a big big fan of carlito but i wouldnt play him this sat but maybe have him on the bench as the lad has just been called up to the national team squad, he will be super excited about it but subconsciously might not play at 100% for us to negate potential injury etc.

Safer for everyone if he's rotated. 

[wild-saint]

49 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Ironically I am a big big fan of carlito but i wouldnt play him this sat but maybe have him on the bench as the lad has just been called up to the national team squad, he will be super excited about it but subconsciously might not play at 100% for us to negate potential injury etc.

Safer for everyone if he's rotated. 

yeah lets drop all our players on international duty as they will all clearly below 100% avoiding injury. So that leaves us with 6 adults and most of the under 18s i guess. COYR

[St Louis]

23 hours ago, Pamplemousse said:

They just won a World Cup, a certain Mr Southgate could learn from not picking players based on reputation.

Surely Alcraz has only been picked on reputation (very promising youngster, etc) as it can't be on his performances (so far this season)? I personally really rate him, and thought he actually looked a better player in the Premier League. I hope its just a dip in form, and maybe this call up will bring his confidence back.

[Saint-Reece]

A supposedly Alex Crook exclusive (I’m sure he’s nabbed it from elsewhere!) that Charly is set to sign a new long term deal. 
 

That’ll be some extra £££ in the next 12 months then! 

[Saint Matty 76]

Happy with that if it is true.

I've been a little underwhelmed with his start this season as I expected huge things, but when you listen to RM's comments about losing Caballero/Lyanco it definitely makes sense. 

We're far better when he plays and he does stuff that nobody else in this team can do, I'm looking forward to him hopefully staying involved moving forward and assume he's probably doubled his wages from £20,000 to £40,000 or something along those lines.

Great week for him and hopefully his first goal of the season tomorrow!

Edited 6 October, 2023 by Saint Matty 76

[SW5 SAINT]

It’s in the Evening Standard tonight that ‘Brentford refuse to give up on Alcaraz’ and that Palace, Everton and wham are also interested. Not to mention AC Milan and Benfica….!

!

Edited 6 October, 2023 by SW5 SAINT
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