Saints 0-2 Leeds - Match Thread

[SKD]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

Agreed, not an amazing player by any means. Bog standard really.

Central Midfield is an area where England don't really have much quality, in my opinion. We're debating Rice, JWP, Kalvin Phillips, Winks in CM.....compare that to other leading nations and we are absolutely light years behind. It doesn't take much to get a game in CM for England atm, especially with Henderson out.

Rice is the stand out, probably along with Henderson (is he injured??) and Mount making up the 3. 

That’s a pretty solid midfield to be honest, I think they’d compliment each other pretty well. 

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, SKD said:

Rice is the stand out, probably along with Henderson (is he injured??) and Mount making up the 3. 

That’s a pretty solid midfield to be honest, I think they’d compliment each other pretty well. 

Henderson is injured, not sure he'll make the Euro's. Don't rate Rice to be honest, just another bog standard water carrier. Mount will play further forward as he should, but we don't have any proper top level 'CM's in my opinion. Certainly no one in the ilk of a Lampard/Gerrard or Scholes from those days.

[Forester]

Apart from queuing outside in the pouring rain, great to be back at St Mary’s.  
 

We were discussing transfer policy beforehand and this match backed up the view that we have lots of pace and energy in the number 10s, but badly lack creativity.  Appreciate they don’t grow on trees, but Lallana in his prime, Tadic or, on his day, Boufal.  Someone who can unlock a defence with a crafted pass.  Our batch of tens rely primarily on pace, which can become one dimensional.

[Ted Bates Statue]

1 hour ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

At the end of the day Bielsa is a better manager than Hasenhuttl. Much better in fact. 

If only in 2017, after our 1-4 defeat to Leicester, we approached the free agent Bielsa. Instead we decided to wait ages so we could hand the reins to Hughes.

Not that Bielsa would've stuck around with us for long, but I can dream, can't I?

[Tamesaint]

Its nice to know that certain things never change in football

"Dirty Leeds"

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

56 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Bielsa is vastly experienced and pretty much singlehandedly introduced a new style of football which is mimicked by clubs the world over. He is superior to the vast proportion of managers. There's no disgrace in losing to him. Many better managers than Hasenhuttl have been doing so for years.

If it was just Bielsa you may have a point. But fuck me, week after week other managers turn it round at half time and we end up playing shite second half. 

[cambsaint]

Once again we played a lot if intricate interpassing very well but when we get to the penalty area most of the time the opposition defence is well in position. we were cut to pieces three or four times by fast counter-attacking play. I'm sure that Forsters immense physical presence would have preventrd Bamford scoring the first. We obviously really miss Romeu, ans Ralph's tactics just don't work without a solid defensive midfield player. Either Hassenhuttl rethinks his tactics next year or we just struggle again. Man City can get away with a possession passing game because they have several world class strikers and the best footballer in the world in De Bruyne, we can't and must try to leave space in the opposition penalty area. Another striker who instinctively knows where the goal is would be helpful, but of course everybody wants them. No I think we must be happy with mid table obscurity unless or until we get a very rich owner. With the players at our disposal I would play a 3421 system 

[JRM]

Didn't realise Leeds were such a bogey side for us, they've won more points against Saints in the Premier league than they have against any other club. 

[Nemi]

49 minutes ago, Forester said:

Apart from queuing outside in the pouring rain, great to be back at St Mary’s.  
 

We were discussing transfer policy beforehand and this match backed up the view that we have lots of pace and energy in the number 10s, but badly lack creativity.  Appreciate they don’t grow on trees, but Lallana in his prime, Tadic or, on his day, Boufal.  Someone who can unlock a defence with a crafted pass.  Our batch of tens rely primarily on pace, which can become one dimensional.

Nail on the head,  it’s no wonder why we become more and more easy to defend against as the games go on, there is just no creatively and a lack of ideas from these players. That’s why Minamino who is far from the answer, at least helps us at the moment cause at least he offers something a little different, simply in his positioning.

[Appy]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

Henderson is injured, not sure he'll make the Euro's. Don't rate Rice to be honest, just another bog standard water carrier. Mount will play further forward as he should, but we don't have any proper top level 'CM's in my opinion. Certainly no one in the ilk of a Lampard/Gerrard or Scholes from those days.

Have to disagree on Rice, he’s so much more than that for me. 

[austsaint]

1 hour ago, JRM said:

Didn't realise Leeds were such a bogey side for us, they've won more points against Saints in the Premier league than they have against any other club. 

Another scary statistic is that under Bielsa, Leeds have won 60 of 67 games after taking the lead!

[Saint J 77]

Leeds are a much more efficient side than us, so it was not difficult to predict we were unlikely to get anything out of tonight’s game. I had hoped I’d be proved wrong but it was a typical 2021 Southampton FC performance. 

Leeds are a club on the up and we are a club currently headed on the way down. Tonight was easy to see coming, just as it is easy to see Sunday’s match against West Ham will bring forth zero points for Saints.

I’m glad we are safe from relegation this season but it’s really not looking good for next season. As many have said on here already, unless something changes behind the scenes for the better during the summer break, we have only just delayed the return to the championship by a season. 

[skintsaint]

Typical home display in front of fans. Looked alright first half, shite second half.

Bielsa will head off to Spurs and take players with him and that Leeds team will do a Sheff Utd. Heres hoping anyway, never liked em!!

We really do need to sell/get rid of some players that never really perform but unfortunately just given one of them a 2 year contract.

p.s where was the VAR..

[Give it to Ron]

11 hours ago, SKD said:

Ings starts, we win the game. 
 

Adams can’t be relied upon to win us a game, as I’ve been pointing out. 

Have you said that .....why couldn’t Ings win game second half or does he only win in the first 45?

He had more shots than Adams second half than did in first.

I’ll tell you why because your hatred of Adams blinds you to the fact they need each other they work as a pair. 
 

 

 

Edited 19 May, 2021 by Give it to Ron

[simo]

How the fuck did Leeds fans get tickets for last night ? Whoever let them have their tickets need to be banned for life !

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, simo said:

How the fuck did Leeds fans get tickets for last night ? Whoever let them have their tickets need to be banned for life !

did it kick off?

[simo]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

did it kick off?

Don't know just seen someone bragging about jumping up when they scored and "some women telling me I shouldn't be in here lol"

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, simo said:

Don't know just seen someone bragging about jumping up when they scored and "some women telling me I shouldn't be in here lol"

that means they (someone) should be 'banned for life'?

harsh

Edited 19 May, 2021 by AlexLaw76

[Jeremy]

Doesn't this result just reflect the sides' relative positions in the League? 35-odd games (whatever it is) tends to spread teams based on collective ability. However, the same bunch of guys played so well at the start. Sorry, still don't get it.

[Chapel End]

2 minutes ago, Jeremy said:

Doesn't this result just reflect the sides' relative positions in the League? 35-odd games (whatever it is) tends to spread teams based on collective ability. However, the same bunch of guys played so well at the start. Sorry, still don't get it.

Yep,its crazy

[SKD]

9 minutes ago, Jeremy said:

Doesn't this result just reflect the sides' relative positions in the League? 35-odd games (whatever it is) tends to spread teams based on collective ability. However, the same bunch of guys played so well at the start. Sorry, still don't get it.

18 losses this season is the highest amount of losses in a season since 04/05 where we went down. 

Not sure what my point is, but that does show how poor this season has been. 

[alehouseboys]

1 hour ago, simo said:

How the fuck did Leeds fans get tickets for last night ? Whoever let them have their tickets need to be banned for life !

 

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

did it kick off?

 

1 hour ago, simo said:

Don't know just seen someone bragging about jumping up when they scored and "some women telling me I shouldn't be in here lol"

 

So not "fans", really just the one.

The fact someone didn't 'ave a word or a steward just throw him (or whatever gender they identify as) out of the stadium (and get details of who provided the ticket) just show we're a soft touch as a club and a walk in the park for visiting teams, fans, referees...

[Roo1976]

9 hours ago, Forester said:

Apart from queuing outside in the pouring rain, great to be back at St Mary’s.  
 

We were discussing transfer policy beforehand and this match backed up the view that we have lots of pace and energy in the number 10s, but badly lack creativity.  Appreciate they don’t grow on trees, but Lallana in his prime, Tadic or, on his day, Boufal.  Someone who can unlock a defence with a crafted pass.  Our batch of tens rely primarily on pace, which can become one dimensional.

How do we know that Caleb Watts,Kegaogelo Chauke,Enzo Robise, or Alexandre Jankewitz cant or wont become the next Lallana,or Tadic. With Ralph showing

no desire to try any of these in these dead games before the season break, how do we as fans know what the future  holds.  They only seem to play in

lower league cup clashes that if the big boys are drawn next week they get put to one side. The subs weve had on the bench for the last 5-6 games do nothing  apart from

the one or 2  regulars getting a run out ,ideal games from the moment we were safe to bleed them in. We go into the season break with the same old guard look

fresh for the season start only to falter when the opposition turn up.

[Charlie Wayman]

Well, it was pretty plain to see last night that even without all the disruption of injuries, a near full strength Saints team just isn't good enough to compete in the top half of this league no matter how much we would like them to. Leeds contained us easily in the first half and in the second they were clever enough to exploit our weaknesses and pick us off at will as we tired and lost our pace and recovery.

Why Ralph didn't start Danny Ings must go down as one of his poorest decisions. When we were at our most effective he wasn't there to exploit the opportunities created. When he did come on we had become largely ineffective at creating chances so he was left to forage. What is he saving Ings for at this stage of the season? Baffling. 

Whilst I admire Ralph's touchline enthusiasm, did it really help players to have him bellow instructions at them every time they got near the ball... "go, go go Redders!" - when the lad was miles away from the ball and ... "the other way!" - as Tella received a cross field ball in the middle of the pitch. Does it really help?

Do the coaching at Staplewood Ralph and trust the players on the pitch, is my advice. In short "Shut it!" Ralph

My goodness we are desperately in need of a shot or two in the arm in this summer's transfer window.

[Charlie Wayman]

13 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Look at us walking off the pitch, all smiles, little chats with the opposition. Fucking bunch of pansies. Soft as shite 

It was a football match not a war. The best team won. It wasn't a dirty match so why not shake hands and move on afterwards? It's supposed to be a sport even if you lose.

[Sheaf Saint]

It was our season in a nutshell really. Plenty of neat passing and slick approach play in the first half, but without Ings we had zero goal threat, and when he came on at HT the rest of the team had run out of steam so he got no good service.

What I really can't fathom is just how poor all our players are when we get into the attacking third. There were a number of times last night when the #10 players came deep and wide to win the ball and fed a player in the middle with acres of space to run into. Multiple times either Arnstrong, Vest or Stephens had the freedom of the midfield to run at their defence, we had attacking players up in support, but they just had no idea what to do with the ball when they got there, and gave it away cheaply every time.

Also, can anyone remember the last time we scored a headed goal from open play? I watch MOTD and it seems every other PL team is capable of pinging in a decent cross for a striker to get between the CBs and get his head on and score, but we just can't it seems. The chance for Adams early on was probably the closest we have come recently in that respect, but the cross from Armstrong took a deflection and had no pace on it, so Adams' header was never going to beat the keeper.

Finally - McCarthy. Wow. Talk about abject. He looked decent in the early stages of the season but now he just looks lost. I can't for the life of me understand why Ralph wants to keep rotating the keepers when it's painfully obvious Forster is the better option right now. There is no way in hell a PL keeper should be letting that first goal in. As for his lunge on Bamford that should have resulted in a penalty for them - it's not the first time this season he has done that. 

I just can't wait for this season to be over TBH. We're finished now. No way we will get anything at West Ham on Sunday, given their form. Might as well not turn up and take the 3-0 loss.

[Saint_lambden]

The game was like a playbook for our entire season really. 

Promising first half of good build-up play leads to nothing and as soon as the opposition make a tactical/personnel tweak at half-time, we've no way of responding to it and revert to playing on the back-foot again as the energy drains. Sideways, backwards, a complete lack of urgency and ideas and of course, conceding a horrific goal which leads to the heads dropping. 

How any professional goalkeeper is letting that first goal in is beyond belief to be honest. 

On the plus side, Tella and Armstrong were bright in terms of trying to make something happen, even if it didn't always come off. Salisu looked solid again. 

It shouldn't be forgotten that Leeds spent nearly £100m last summer but they're coached brilliantly, are tactically flexible, well organised and having a cutting edge - all things we so often lack. 

As others have said, we're some way off being a top 10 side and if the recruitment isn't right this summer, we could be bang in trouble come May next year. 

[Alanh]

20 minutes ago, Roo1976 said:

How do we know that Caleb Watts,Kegaogelo Chauke,Enzo Robise, or Alexandre Jankewitz cant or wont become the next Lallana,or Tadic. With Ralph showing

no desire to try any of these in these dead games before the season break, how do we as fans know what the future  holds.  They only seem to play in

lower league cup clashes that if the big boys are drawn next week they get put to one side. The subs weve had on the bench for the last 5-6 games do nothing  apart from

the one or 2  regulars getting a run out ,ideal games from the moment we were safe to bleed them in. We go into the season break with the same old guard look

fresh for the season start only to falter when the opposition turn up.

Ralph sees the younger players in training and most of those you mention have had minutes on the pitch without doing anything remarkably good.  Tella has been the academy breakthrough this season and one a season is fine.

In the Fulham match all of 4 days ago, two subs scored to give us the win.  The can't do it every match, but to say they do nothing is wrong.

All teams will go into next season with the majority of the 'old guard' from this season (with the possible exception of Palace who have loads out of contract).  We will still likely be fighting with the three promoted teams, Palace, Burnely, Newcastle, Brighton and anyone else who had a bad season for a lower mid table finish.

[DT]

10 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Henderson is injured, not sure he'll make the Euro's. Don't rate Rice to be honest, just another bog standard water carrier. Mount will play further forward as he should, but we don't have any proper top level 'CM's in my opinion. Certainly no one in the ilk of a Lampard/Gerrard or Scholes from those days.

Rice as a water carrier is an interesting concept

#paddyfield

[macca155]

10 hours ago, JRM said:

Didn't realise Leeds were such a bogey side for us, they've won more points against Saints in the Premier league than they have against any other club. 

If you are of an age that you can remember them in the 70s you'd understand. 

Fans of my vintage have an irrational dislike of Leeds.

However I will concede they were pleasing on the eye going forward. That's a big change.

[JRM]

3 minutes ago, macca155 said:

If you are of an age that you can remember them in the 70s you'd understand. 

Fans of my vintage have an irrational dislike of Leeds.

However I will concede they were pleasing on the eye going forward. That's a big change.

At least we beat them in 79 semi final, this stat was for "Premier league era" , guess when you think they have been out of it for our best years it's not surprising they've beaten us more than any other team. 

[Saint_Jonny]

Enjoyed the first 60-odd minutes of the game, so much better watching a game unfold in front of you rather than on a TV. Atmosphere was decent as Saints dominated the opening period and really should have taken advantage - story of our season.

Don't blame the Saints players one bit that went straight down the tunnel after the game - loads of single-celled organisms near where I was sat chose to boo at the end of the game. Probably the same zero-GCSE morons that chose to boo anti-racism gesture before kick-off. Some of the players will have gotten used to playing without the pressure of playing in front of Sotonians who have ZERO patience and, it would seem, very little football knowledge. The second we go one behind, all patience goes out of the window, the cries of "GET IT FORRRWARRRRDDDD" start and the player the idiots have chosen as chief scapegoat is suddenly on a hiding to nothing. 

You think after not being allowed to watch a real football match FOR A YEAR people would be a little more appreciative or at least have a bit more patience, not our lot. 

Edited 19 May, 2021 by Saint_Jonny

[Totton Saint]

1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Well, it was pretty plain to see last night that even without all the disruption of injuries, a near full strength Saints team just isn't good enough to compete in the top half of this league no matter how much we would like them to. Leeds contained us easily in the first half and in the second they were clever enough to exploit our weaknesses and pick us off at will as we tired and lost our pace and recovery.

Why Ralph didn't start Danny Ings must go down as one of his poorest decisions. When we were at our most effective he wasn't there to exploit the opportunities created. When he did come on we had become largely ineffective at creating chances so he was left to forage. What is he saving Ings for at this stage of the season? Baffling. 

Whilst I admire Ralph's touchline enthusiasm, did it really help players to have him bellow instructions at them every time they got near the ball... "go, go go Redders!" - when the lad was miles away from the ball and ... "the other way!" - as Tella received a cross field ball in the middle of the pitch. Does it really help?

Do the coaching at Staplewood Ralph and trust the players on the pitch, is my advice. In short "Shut it!" Ralph

My goodness we are desperately in need of a shot or two in the arm in this summer's transfer window.

I agree with the comments about ralph. It must be so off putting for the players not to make their own spontaneous decisions. They are paid enough.

[redkeith]

Like Saint_Jonny, I thought we played well for the first hour. Leeds are a side that you definitely need the first goal against, as it opens the game up and they can no longer rely on their brilliant counter attacks. 

Our two wide men weren't great, yesterday, although the new system of a hybrid 3 at the back does keep them looking over their shoulders a bit,

 Also, I wish KWP would hug the touchline more. In the last 15 minutes he kept running into the crowd of defenders, rather than try and draw them out.  I switched channels after the 2nd so didn't hear the booing, although I did see people leaving early, FFS , there were only 8,000 fans, it would not take you long to get out of the stadium, plus it was an early KO, so plenty of trains to get you home!   

[Totton Saint]

I thought Salusi was very good.

[rallyboy]

Toothless.

The best bit about getting back in the ground was the fact that it was dry in there.

 

 

 

[Totton Saint]

I thought our style of play first half was very entertaining albeit we got no goals. Why the Ings/Che partnership broken up. Is Ralph resigned to Ings going in the summer

[Shroppie]

3 minutes ago, Totton Saint said:

I thought our style of play first half was very entertaining albeit we got no goals. Why the Ings/Che partnership broken up. Is Ralph resigned to Ings going in the summer

Ralph has repeatedly said he's confident Danny is staying. I think he knew Danny couldn't last 90 mins and also wanted to look at Adams/Tella and Ings/Tella together. 

To be honest, in a game that wasn't critical it was as good a time as any to try it. But proves Ings/Adams is still the top combo.

Once Romeu is back and paired with JWP, I'd like to see Tella, Armstrong, Ings and Adams as a front four 

[Saint Garrett]

2 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

Ralph has repeatedly said he's confident Danny is staying. I think he knew Danny couldn't last 90 mins and also wanted to look at Adams/Tella and Ings/Tella together. 

To be honest, in a game that wasn't critical it was as good a time as any to try it. But proves Ings/Adams is still the top combo.

Once Romeu is back and paired with JWP, I'd like to see Tella, Armstrong, Ings and Adams as a front four 

Would have thought, given the first game the fans were back, and the more likely of the 2 remaining games we'd win, he should have started Ings/Adams. Why not just bring Ings off for Tella / Walcott at HT if he can only play 45 mins? Just an odd time to experiment IMO. Can experiment on Sunday if he wants. 

Sounds like he was then forced to change Adams as he got injured. 

[Appy]

McCarthy absolutely pathetic on both goals last night, if only we could afford one good goalkeeper rather than two average ones. 
 

Look at how much Villa have improved from getting a new keeper. 

[trousers]

7 minutes ago, Appy said:

McCarthy absolutely pathetic on both goals last night

The more I watch the replays the more bizarre the 2nd goal appears. McCarthy seems to track the path of the ball well enough but then decides not to stick out an arm to try and save it and instead ushers the ball into the net. 

[Sunglasses Ron]

Just seen the highlights and reckon we did ok to be honest against a decent side.

It was one of those games that could easily have ended with a positive result but for a few small details. McCarthy was a right mixed-bag though!

Nice to see fans back in the ground.

[Alanh]

1 hour ago, Totton Saint said:

I thought our style of play first half was very entertaining albeit we got no goals. Why the Ings/Che partnership broken up. Is Ralph resigned to Ings going in the summer

My theory is that Ralph knew that Ings couldn't play 90 mins and was very conscious of the second half collapses that we have been prone to this season.  He therefore held Ings back for the second half so that he had more firepower on the pitch later in the game.  It didn't work out for us, but I can see the logic.

[ErwinK1961]

1 hour ago, Appy said:

McCarthy absolutely pathetic on both goals last night, if only we could afford one good goalkeeper rather than two average ones. 
 

Look at how much Villa have improved from getting a new keeper. 

Agree totally. I said on another thread a good GK wins you double figure points in a season, neither of ours seem to.

[SFC Forever]

perhaps Sheff Utd could let us have their keeper on the cheap

[Maya's Dad]

why was the VAR for their first never shown. if all of ours were disallowed throughout the season, that looked way off compared

[SaintZamboni]

My only main thought is that Ralph should have, at some point, had Adams and Ings on together. They work well together, we didn’t have the threat they pose yesterday. 
I understand keeping Tella on, let’s build the kid up for next season, but if Ings isn’t fully fit then start him with Adams so we have a chance of scoring and then throw Theo/Tella/Obafemi on later

[Turkish]

15 hours ago, JRM said:

Didn't realise Leeds were such a bogey side for us, they've won more points against Saints in the Premier league than they have against any other club. 

i expect there are quite a few who can claim that.

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, Alanh said:

My theory is that Ralph knew that Ings couldn't play 90 mins and was very conscious of the second half collapses that we have been prone to this season.  He therefore held Ings back for the second half so that he had more firepower on the pitch later in the game.  It didn't work out for us, but I can see the logic.

Maybe, but its not just scoring in the second half, its creating, that is normally when he tippy tappy backwards shenanigans are at their worst. Simple old me would have had Adams and Ings on from the start, try and get a couple then become very compact in the second half, which is another thing we are not very good at.

[Totton Saint]

3 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

Would have thought, given the first game the fans were back, and the more likely of the 2 remaining games we'd win, he should have started Ings/Adams. Why not just bring Ings off for Tella / Walcott at HT if he can only play 45 mins? Just an odd time to experiment IMO. Can experiment on Sunday if he wants. 

Sounds like he was then forced to change Adams as he got injured. 

Thanks St Garrett